Rodgers knee and miss mosh stuff

[ARPackFan]

And my point is MM doesn't have a remote control button telling Rodgers when to fire on those.

I understand what you are saying but this is MMs offense and this is the only offense that Rodgers has played in for the last 10 years. Aaron has been conditioned to play this style of offense. If Sean Payton had been hired instead of McCarthy then Green Bays offense would be designed to get the ball out quicker. Historically, Brees has been sacked far less per year than Rodgers.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I understand what you are saying but this is MMs offense and this is the only offense that Rodgers has played in for the last 10 years. Aaron has been conditioned to play this style of offense. If Sean Payton had been hired instead of McCarthy then Green Bays offense would be designed to get the ball out quicker. Historically, Brees has been sacked far less per year than Rodgers.

Disagree, plus we'd be stuck with defensive coordinators worse than Capers.

 

[rodell330]

Disagree, plus we'd be stuck with defensive coordinators worse than Capers.

You do realize the Saints finished in the top 5 in defense last year right? So that’s not necessarily true. Capers had never done that when he was here.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

You do realize the Saints finished in the top 5 in defense last year right? So that’s not necessarily true. Capers had never done that when he was here.

For the first time in what? 20 years?

And in case you didn't see that game yesterday, they allowed a washed up old QB to look like Kurt Warner in his prime.

And btw, I'm as glad as anyone that Capers is no longer here, and MM should not have stuck with him like he did. That criticism I can get with.

But anyone who doesn't think Sean Payton hires bad defensive coordinators is as blind as a bat. Dennis Allen is bar none the worst in NFL history.

 

[rmontro]

It just baffles me that it took Rodgers potentially going down for the season for McCarthy to make the adjustment with more quick strike offense, especially against Chicago's potent defensive front, namely Khalil Mack.

Take this for what it's worth, but McCarthy in his post game interview said that they didn't really make any adjustments for the second half.

 

[sschind]

Take this for what it's worth, but McCarthy in his post game interview said that they didn't really make any adjustments for the second half.

It sure looked to me like someone made adjustments. I guess Nagy just decided to back off.

 

[pizzle]

I was just about to come here and put up a new thread entitled The Rodgers/McCarthy Conundrum, which is what this thread should be titled. Glad I read this first.

I had friends on Facebook calling for MM’s head after the first quarter. We had a poster get banned because he was calling everyone morons for supporting “fatty Mcarthy”. For quite a few years many of us have been baffled by the lack of open receivers on what seems like the majority of Packer passing plays, at least until Rodgers scrambles, finds the finally open receiver and connects. Many people blame MM, which is in part correct. However, not enough people give equal blame to Rodgers which needs to be done.

The bottom line is that MM is a great coach and he is working with a generational talent at the QB position. However, due to Rodgers unique combination of mobility and pass accuracy, the team at times devolves into “sandlot” football, which is simply the way Rodgers plays the game. Because He is so good and basically doesn’t throw interceptions, many fans ignore Rodgers one flaw which is holding onto the ball waiting for big plays to develop. Admittedly, as far as flaws go, it is not all that bad.

With that said, the difference between the first half and the 2nd half was night and day. The 2nd half is the way this offense should ALWAYS operate. We have talent all over the offensive side of the ball. Rodgers, MM and Philbin need to have a “come to Jesus meeting” and realize they have the coaching minds, WR talent and obviously QB talent to make this offense a high performance supercar. I am not talking a Corvette ZR1, I am talking a Koenigsegg Agera, Hennessy Venom or a Bugatti Chiron. If you don’t understand the comparison, look it up. Bottom line though is the ZR1 is a beastly American made piece of machinery, the others are ungodly, insanely priced, unparalleled automobiles coveted by royalty and people worth billions. The ZR1 is perfectly acceptable, however if you have the means and ability, why not drop 2 million+ on a car with top speeds of 260 to 300mph.

Okay now that the analogy is over, I firmly believe that if those 3 get together and decide to quit ******** around and run the offense like they did the 2nd half instead of the first. This offense can perform at unheard of levels due the talent at WR, QB, and yes, even the coaching level. Was this all a little dramatic? Sure but I believe it is 100% accurate.

On the GW TD to Cobb I initially thought that was vintage Rodgers holding onto the ball to manufacture the scramble drill big play. Then I watched the play over and over. The Bears were in a Cover 2 Man Robber defense, where Eddie Jackson jumped Cobb's initial over route and Cobb's defender replaced Jackson as the other free defender playing a safety role. Well, Cobb's initial defender basically just fronted Allison's similar complimentary over route, which allowed Cobb to pivot, reverse field and simultaneously snag a perfectly placed ball just beyond the outstretched hands of Jackson. The Bears had no one in the middle of the field due to Adams' deep route causing the FS to play him over the top and the rest is history.

The point of bringing it up is that the 2 safety shell has been the preferred defensive secondary alignment for years now to attempt to slow down the Packer offense under Rodgers. The play call and execution to me said that GB's offensive minds going into this year have some ideas on how to effectively beat those looks. Those ideas are predicated on Aaron understanding that holding onto the ball as long as possible isn't always the best way to go-it's figuring out what the defense is doing and then attacking as quick as possible, only extending the play as necessary.

To your points, I think that by letting Jordy go, the process of the "meeting" might have already happened this off-season. I think more combo routes are coming this season than in the past, as well as designed man-coverage beaters. I also think that the emphasis on pass catchers getting open quicker was apart of that meeting, not just Aaron getting rid of it quicker.

Essentially, by replacing Jordy with Jimmy, we got a bigger, more versatile decoy than what #87 had became. Adams already overtook #18 and #87 as the #1 WR option last year. But now, the offense will utilize Cobb's abilities to beat coverage faster than Jordy on a more consistent basis. As great as Aaron and Jordy's connection was, as of late I noticed that it felt like Aaron would slightly attempt to force Jordy the ball instead of getting rid of the ball on-schedule to whomever was open. As you stated, in the 2nd half of the Bears game #12 was getting rid of it fast and with conviction outside of a couple throws.

I think that Aaron will still have attempts at shot plays like the G-Mo TD. But not only do I agree that being more on-schedule (even if that simply means letting #12 go no-huddle in 11 personnel earlier in the game) will help the offense be more unstoppable but I believe that is a point of emphasis overall this season. That's why the Packers were okay with not keeping Nelson/made sure to grab Graham and Lewis. They wanted more diversity (ability to play 12 personnel with a good blocking TE/have some 13 personnel looks) while maintaining their offensive style, just pairing it down to be faster developing. Nelson is still a savvy vet WR but he was having trouble beating press coverage/winning deep down the field on those long-developing plays. Having a receiving TE as a luxury compliment to 3 receivers that can beat tight coverage along with a RB/WR hybrid in #88 allows us to go into games feeling more confident that we won't be stymied by 2 Man Under shells/can gain positive yards in the pass game and not go 3 & out for multiple series on end.

This is why if Aaron can go vs Minny Sunday I feel we'll have a shot at getting some sweet revenge on them. Use Jimmy as a decoy since they have a strong safety unit/won't want to give up the middle of the field easily and actually have a game plan similar to the one that played out against CHI-quick hit 'em and when they get tired detonate a couple bombs on the outside...

 

[XPack]

'We're Taking It One Day at a Time'

Nothing else worthwhile forthcoming....

 

[XPack]

The Bears were in a Cover 2 Man Robber defense, where Eddie Jackson jumped Cobb's initial over route and Cobb's defender replaced Jackson as the other free defender playing a safety role. Well, Cobb's initial defender basically just fronted Allison's similar complimentary over route, which allowed Cobb to pivot, reverse field and simultaneously snag a perfectly placed ball just beyond the outstretched hands of Jackson. The Bears had no one in the middle of the field due to Adams' deep route causing the FS to play him over the top and the rest is history.

Thought it was just Jackson covering Cobb. Davante had double coverage and the other safety was hovering up waiting for Allison. Once Rodgers beat Jackson, Cobb had a free run till the end.

 

[rmontro]

Jason Whitlock said yesterday that they need to play Rodgers if at all possible, because they can't afford to lose a divisional home game against Minnesota. He said that if it was an away game, they could afford to be more cautious.

 

[C-Lee]

Jason Whitlock said .

lol

 

[Curly Calhoun]

The Allison TD was a throw that very few , if any, QBs can make, and the Cobb TD was a scramble drill without the scramble. Nobody ever doubted that the guys could run a few yards and get open, but I'm not sure that the vertical game would work with any other QB. Those windows are tight.

Some of that is perhaps the Jimmy Graham effect. It seemed the Bears were keeping pretty close tabs on him, and the middle of the field was wide open. Interesting to see how this plays out as we move forward.

 

[PackAttack12]

Jason Whitlock said yesterday that they need to play Rodgers if at all possible, because they can't afford to lose a divisional home game against Minnesota. He said that if it was an away game, they could afford to be more cautious.

I think this game will be the most important of the season. Losing this game means we'd have to win at Minnesota to have a shot at a potential tie breaker for the division.

If the Packers want a legitimate shot at going back to the Super Bowl, the path needs to go through Lambeau Field. That's why I'm hoping like hell Rodgers can give it a go.

Getting to 2-0 means a very realistic chance of making it to the bye at 6-0. Next 4 games:

@ Washington
Buffalo
@ Detroit
San Francisco

Not exactly daunting.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think this game will be the most important of the season. Losing this game means we'd have to win at Minnesota to have a shot at a potential tie breaker for the division.

If the Packers want a legitimate shot at going back to the Super Bowl, the path needs to go through Lambeau Field. That's why I'm hoping like hell Rodgers can give it a go.

Getting to 2-0 means a very realistic chance of making it to the bye at 6-0. Next 4 games:

@ Washington
Buffalo
@ Detroit
San Francisco

Not exactly daunting.

While I agree with your premise, "a win against the Vikings is almost like 1 1/2 wins" due to the tie breaker, I don't think you can put it all on the line for the 2nd game of the season. If Rodgers isn't ready to go, I would sit him and basically hand the Vikings the W. As you said, the following 4 games are totally winnable and I would much rather be 5-1 with AR, than have AR aggravate that knee even more and possibly be 1-5 at the Bye week and wondering if he will play again this season.

 

[rmontro]

@ Washington
Buffalo
@ Detroit
San Francisco

Not exactly daunting.

It is if Kizer is the quarterback.

lol

I know a lot of people dislike the national media sports commentators, and I can understand that. But once in awhile one of them says something thought provoking - even a stopped clock is right twice a day remember. Besides, bear in mind I don't live in Wisconsin so I don't have the luxury of getting all the home news.

Cowherd said something the other day that still has me turning it over in my head, I don't know if he's full of it or if he's on to something. He pointed out how Rodgers has had twice as many pro bowl offensive linemen than Brady has had, and yet Brady rarely gets sacked. According to him, Brady audibles out of anything that's likely to bring him pressure, whereas Rodgers will rely on his scrambling ability to get himself out of danger. This is likely one reason Brady's career has been extended like it has.

Now I don't think it's so much about pro bowl linemen, as it is about your weakest lineman. If one of them is a revolving door, you're in trouble. But it makes me recall the early days in Rodgers career, how some were concerned that he might be injury prone. That turned out not to be true, although he's clearly no Favre in that regard. But now that he's getting older, it might become a concern again.

 

[PackAttack12]

While I agree with your premise, "a win against the Vikings is almost like 1 1/2 wins" due to the tie breaker, I don't think you can put it all on the line for the 2nd game of the season. If Rodgers isn't ready to go, I would sit him and basically hand the Vikings the W. As you said, the following 4 games are totally winnable and I would much rather be 5-1 with AR, than have AR aggravate that knee even more and possibly be 1-5 at the Bye week and wondering if he will play again this season.

It is if Kizer is the quarterback.

That's why I said *if* Rodgers can give it a go. I don't want him out there on crutches.

If we're talking about soreness/pain thresh hold with little or no chance to make it worse, he'll play. If it's an injury that could be worsened by playing, then I'll lean more toward not playing him.

Because one thing is for sure, Zimmer's gonna be coming for him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's why I said *if* Rodgers can give it a go. I don't want him out there on crutches.

Well if it was the final game of the season, playoffs on the line, I would take AR out there in a wheelchair over Kizer. But yeah, the Packers aren't going to risk washing out the season if playing on his knee could worsen it. We already knew that the Vikings and every team are going to try and come after Rodgers healthy or not, but if the Vikings smell blood in the water, they may send the kitchen sink.

If I was MM and Rodgers was just fine and only nursing the pain of a bruise, I would play this up a bit as something that will limit him if he plays and let the Vikings send those kitchen sinks.

 

[C-Lee]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/packers/status/1039896954002726915[/TWEET]

Good news for the season, but Sunday might be in jeopardy.

 

[GleefulGary]

Rodgers can tend to hold the ball...but it’s not like he’s intentionally doing it. The WRs take forever to get open. I’ve heard ppl say he’s looking for the big play all the time when he’s just simply going through his progressions. He misses guys sometimes yes, but he’s not intentionally holding the ball. I’m sure he’d rather get it out.

So even though MM didn’t change how he called the plays post injury, the receivers just magically got more open?

People have talked about it for years. Rodgers holds onto the ball longer than most. He constantly passes up open short passes...is some of that scheme? Most certainly. Is some of that Rodgers preference? Most certainly. But yeah, Rodgers absolutely intentionally holds onto the ball longer than he needs to. That’s a fact, and the 2nd half proves it.

 

[sschind]

Jason Whitlock said yesterday that they need to play Rodgers if at all possible, because they can't afford to lose a divisional home game against Minnesota. He said that if it was an away game, they could afford to be more cautious.

Tell Jason Whitlock home and away does not play into tie breakers. A loss to the vikings away is just as bad as a loss to the vikings at home when it comes to who wins the division. I understand that he is probably thinking it is easier to win at home so losing an away game gives you a better shot at a split but my opinion is if he can play he plays home or away. Now if it were one of the AFC games I might feel a bit different but home vs away against your biggest rival...no difference to me.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Jason Whitlock said yesterday that they need to play Rodgers if at all possible, because they can't afford to lose a divisional home game against Minnesota. He said that if it was an away game, they could afford to be more cautious.

The Packers can afford to lose to the Vikings on Sunday but definitely not Rodgers' injury getting any worse. The team should be extremely hesitant to put #12 out there if there's a chance of him aggravating his knee.

 

[Starr To Dowler]

Normally, I hate early byes, but this is one year I wish we had the first bye weekend. Sooner we can get him 2 weeks off, the better.

 

[C-Lee]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Michael_Cohen13/status/1039948320347774976[/TWEET]

 

[PackAttack12]

Can't attach a fancy tweet like C-Lee on my work computer

But per Tom Pelissero on AR's media session:

- Says knee felt a little better each day
- Does he need to practice to play?
"Nope"
- Noted he's played with left knee issues since he was 16, also had surgery at 20 and after 2015 season
- Said it's accurate to call it a sprain

 

[pizzle]

Thought it was just Jackson covering Cobb. Davante had double coverage and the other safety was hovering up waiting for Allison. Once Rodgers beat Jackson, Cobb had a free run till the end.

I watched the TV version and rewinded it back a few times. Jackson was the other safety in the 2 shell closer to the direct middle of the field and he jumped Cobb to the inside of his route. It looked like a safety was hovering waiting for Allison because the nickel covering Cobb passed Cobb off and then fronted Allison.
Cobb had that wide alley because all the DBs were veering to their right of the field and Trevathan was blitzing. Once #18 pivoted and #12 hit him the sea was parted.

And to be technical, the coverage the Bears were in was 2 Man "Lurk" as explained by former Packer LeRoy Butler. To me-the robber and lurk player's role is similar, but, just figured I'd mention it.