Rebuilding Hurts, but It's Worth It

[BearPerspective]

Okay,

I know the last think you guys want is some Bears' troll in here giving you crap for not showing up yesterday, but that's really not my intent. I've been sort of lurking on this board for the last couple weeks, and I have some thoughts to add.

1.) Lay off the GM a little bit. When Angelo took over for Chicago, we saw a 13-3 team become a 3-13 team ALMOST immediately. We wanted the man's head on a pole, but the truth of the matter was that we were an old team at the end of a (short) talent streak. Green bay is at the same point right now. Give it time, you will see the fruits.

2.) Dont EXPECT to win, and be happy with the picks you guys will get. The Bears have made not the best use of our 1st rounders, but building through the draft is the ONLY way. This takes a couple years, and you dont want to be like the Vikings/Redskins/Raiders who sign a TON of big name FA's EVERY year and still suck.

3.) Dont let your love for Brett blind you. He is hampering this team's development and should step aside. IMO, he'd be a perfect fit in Washington as someone suggested. If Rogers is the guy, you NEED to know and he NEEDS reps. By the time the talent of the rest of this team catches up to be competitive, Brett will be gone, and you'll be in a desperate QB search like Chicago. Get the young guy some reps and cut the ties. I have the utmost respect for Brett, and he may have played decent in the 1st half yesterday, but he has been HORRIBLE against Chicago recently.

4.) Drink some beer, eat some Brats and watch your young guys develop. It hurts to lose, but its oh so sweet to watch these young guys grow up and start to win for you. Give it 2-3 years, and you'll be looking at another playoff run.

Aloha. Dont ban me. :wink:

 

[Zero2Cool]

hmmm ...

welcome to the board

 

[umair]

i agree with you 100%.

i just dont think tt and mm are the right people to build a team.

 

[all about da packers]

Top notch post, that. Long may you continue to post here!

Cheers, mate! :thumbsup:

 

[Ryan]

Welcome to the site BearPerspective, thanks for the considerate insightful post. Always glad to welcome fellow football fans to the site!

On a side note:

Top notch post, that. Long may you continue to post here!

Cheers, mate! :thumbsup:

:wtf:

 

[BearPerspective]

i agree with you 100%.

i just dont think tt and mm are the right people to build a team.

On the surface, I can see why you would feel that way. Bringing Brett back, signing Woodson, etc... those dont seem like really progressive moves, but one thing that GM's have to take into account, even when rebuilding, is selling tickets and staying profitable. Yeah, Woodson cost major bucks, but its not like you need the cash for something else. Even if it ends up to be a bad signing all around, when there's not much winning, keeping your team in the news does a TON for ad sales, marketing otherwise, and selling tickets. IMO, your GM is doing the smart thing, and that's spending high picks on defense, still trying to be competitive, yet slowly changing out the players for what will fit his new scheme.
Imagine what another couple of early first round and early second round picks will do for your team! You could get Brady Quinn, etc... You dont want to trade away all your picks for some FAs who 9 times out of 10 dont really work out as well as a good pick.
Now your coach, I question that too, but sometimes it takes once or twice to get that right. Still, he brand new. At least give him a chance.

 

[BearPerspective]

...and thanks for the warm welcome fellas.

 

[Greg C.]

It's pretty bad when the only thing that cheers me up after a humiliating loss to the Bears is a post from a Bears fan, but well.....that's exactly what's happened here. I think it was time to begin turning over the roster after the Packers tried to win it all for several years and still weren't very close to doing that. I'm not sure whether Thompson and McCarthy are the right guys to get the job done, but I am willing to give each of them a chance. Great post, Bearperspective.

 

[PackFaninBucLand]

Agreed. I'd like to see the Pack pull the John Hadl trade of the decade for Favre.

 

[PackerChick]

Okay,

I know the last think you guys want is some Bears' troll in here giving you crap for not showing up yesterday, but that's really not my intent. I've been sort of lurking on this board for the last couple weeks, and I have some thoughts to add.

1.) Lay off the GM a little bit. When Angelo took over for Chicago, we saw a 13-3 team become a 3-13 team ALMOST immediately. We wanted the man's head on a pole, but the truth of the matter was that we were an old team at the end of a (short) talent streak. Green bay is at the same point right now. Give it time, you will see the fruits.

2.) Dont EXPECT to win, and be happy with the picks you guys will get. The Bears have made not the best use of our 1st rounders, but building through the draft is the ONLY way. This takes a couple years, and you dont want to be like the Vikings/Redskins/Raiders who sign a TON of big name FA's EVERY year and still suck.

3.) Dont let your love for Brett blind you. He is hampering this team's development and should step aside. IMO, he'd be a perfect fit in Washington as someone suggested. If Rogers is the guy, you NEED to know and he NEEDS reps. By the time the talent of the rest of this team catches up to be competitive, Brett will be gone, and you'll be in a desperate QB search like Chicago. Get the young guy some reps and cut the ties. I have the utmost respect for Brett, and he may have played decent in the 1st half yesterday, but he has been HORRIBLE against Chicago recently.

4.) Drink some beer, eat some Brats and watch your young guys develop. It hurts to lose, but its oh so sweet to watch these young guys grow up and start to win for you. Give it 2-3 years, and you'll be looking at another playoff run.

Aloha. Dont ban me. :wink:

glad to have you on the board. maybe youre right about what you said. how much more time should thompson and mccarthy have?

 

[pyledriver80]

Okay,

I know the last think you guys want is some Bears' troll in here giving you crap for not showing up yesterday, but that's really not my intent. I've been sort of lurking on this board for the last couple weeks, and I have some thoughts to add.

1.) Lay off the GM a little bit. When Angelo took over for Chicago, we saw a 13-3 team become a 3-13 team ALMOST immediately. We wanted the man's head on a pole, but the truth of the matter was that we were an old team at the end of a (short) talent streak. Green bay is at the same point right now. Give it time, you will see the fruits.

2.) Dont EXPECT to win, and be happy with the picks you guys will get. The Bears have made not the best use of our 1st rounders, but building through the draft is the ONLY way. This takes a couple years, and you dont want to be like the Vikings/Redskins/Raiders who sign a TON of big name FA's EVERY year and still suck.

3.) Dont let your love for Brett blind you. He is hampering this team's development and should step aside. IMO, he'd be a perfect fit in Washington as someone suggested. If Rogers is the guy, you NEED to know and he NEEDS reps. By the time the talent of the rest of this team catches up to be competitive, Brett will be gone, and you'll be in a desperate QB search like Chicago. Get the young guy some reps and cut the ties. I have the utmost respect for Brett, and he may have played decent in the 1st half yesterday, but he has been HORRIBLE against Chicago recently.

4.) Drink some beer, eat some Brats and watch your young guys develop. It hurts to lose, but its oh so sweet to watch these young guys grow up and start to win for you. Give it 2-3 years, and you'll be looking at another playoff run.

Aloha. Dont ban me. :wink:

glad to have you on the board. maybe youre right about what you said. how much more time should thompson and mccarthy have?

Nice Post........BUT you seem to forget one thing. The Bears HAVE NOT been back to the Super Bowl and won't be there until they improve thier offense.


This is Packer Land, people apparently are not happy with playoff appearences, just ask Mike Sherman. Sherman led us to the playoffs year after year and people still bash him.

The bar is the Super Bowl I guess. If not, there is no need to be a playoff team. According to some Packer Fans logic Lovie Smith has been a TERRIBLE coach and your GM stinks because you have not been to the Super Bowl for 2 decades. Instead, you should go 4-12 and say you are rebuilding.

 

[Gopackgo82]

Thank you SOOO much for that great post BearPerspective!! Welcome to the board. :wink:

 

[yooperfan]

I just got through talking to my oldest son and he pretty much said the same thing although I argued with him about it.
Then I came on the puter and read this BearsPerspective post and I actually started feeling better about the Pack.

I still don't like Teddy as Packer GM.

 

[BearPerspective]

Okay,

I know the last think you guys want is some Bears' troll in here giving you crap for not showing up yesterday, but that's really not my intent. I've been sort of lurking on this board for the last couple weeks, and I have some thoughts to add.

1.) Lay off the GM a little bit. When Angelo took over for Chicago, we saw a 13-3 team become a 3-13 team ALMOST immediately. We wanted the man's head on a pole, but the truth of the matter was that we were an old team at the end of a (short) talent streak. Green bay is at the same point right now. Give it time, you will see the fruits.

2.) Dont EXPECT to win, and be happy with the picks you guys will get. The Bears have made not the best use of our 1st rounders, but building through the draft is the ONLY way. This takes a couple years, and you dont want to be like the Vikings/Redskins/Raiders who sign a TON of big name FA's EVERY year and still suck.

3.) Dont let your love for Brett blind you. He is hampering this team's development and should step aside. IMO, he'd be a perfect fit in Washington as someone suggested. If Rogers is the guy, you NEED to know and he NEEDS reps. By the time the talent of the rest of this team catches up to be competitive, Brett will be gone, and you'll be in a desperate QB search like Chicago. Get the young guy some reps and cut the ties. I have the utmost respect for Brett, and he may have played decent in the 1st half yesterday, but he has been HORRIBLE against Chicago recently.

4.) Drink some beer, eat some Brats and watch your young guys develop. It hurts to lose, but its oh so sweet to watch these young guys grow up and start to win for you. Give it 2-3 years, and you'll be looking at another playoff run.

Aloha. Dont ban me. :wink:

glad to have you on the board. maybe youre right about what you said. how much more time should thompson and mccarthy have?

Nice Post........BUT you seem to forget one thing. The Bears HAVE NOT been back to the Super Bowl and won't be there until they improve thier offense.


This is Packer Land, people apparently are not happy with playoff appearences, just ask Mike Sherman. Sherman led us to the playoffs year after year and people still bash him.

The bar is the Super Bowl I guess. If not, there is no need to be a playoff team. According to some Packer Fans logic Lovie Smith has been a TERRIBLE coach and your GM stinks because you have not been to the Super Bowl for 2 decades. Instead, you should go 4-12 and say you are rebuilding.

I wasnt implying that Green Bay should be happy with what Chicago considers success, but the formula for success remains the same. If some Pack fans think Lovie is a "TERRIBLE" that's fine. If "TERRIBLE" means beating the Pack 4 of every 5 games and holding Brett to 8 INTs and 0 TDs in the last few games, then I'll take "TERRIBLE" every time.

Thanks for turning this into a rival "smack talk" thread by the way. Im more than happy to oblige.
I was just trying to give a little bit of perspective in a down time. Sorry, I guess.

 

[digsthepack]

Ah...don't worry....pyle is rough on anyone...Bears fan, or Packers fan...who does not see things exactly his way.

 

[spardo62]

Okay,

I know the last think you guys want is some Bears' troll in here giving you crap for not showing up yesterday, but that's really not my intent. I've been sort of lurking on this board for the last couple weeks, and I have some thoughts to add.

1.) Lay off the GM a little bit. When Angelo took over for Chicago, we saw a 13-3 team become a 3-13 team ALMOST immediately. We wanted the man's head on a pole, but the truth of the matter was that we were an old team at the end of a (short) talent streak. Green bay is at the same point right now. Give it time, you will see the fruits.

2.) Dont EXPECT to win, and be happy with the picks you guys will get. The Bears have made not the best use of our 1st rounders, but building through the draft is the ONLY way. This takes a couple years, and you dont want to be like the Vikings/Redskins/Raiders who sign a TON of big name FA's EVERY year and still suck.

3.) Dont let your love for Brett blind you. He is hampering this team's development and should step aside. IMO, he'd be a perfect fit in Washington as someone suggested. If Rogers is the guy, you NEED to know and he NEEDS reps. By the time the talent of the rest of this team catches up to be competitive, Brett will be gone, and you'll be in a desperate QB search like Chicago. Get the young guy some reps and cut the ties. I have the utmost respect for Brett, and he may have played decent in the 1st half yesterday, but he has been HORRIBLE against Chicago recently.

4.) Drink some beer, eat some Brats and watch your young guys develop. It hurts to lose, but its oh so sweet to watch these young guys grow up and start to win for you. Give it 2-3 years, and you'll be looking at another playoff run.

Aloha. Dont ban me. :wink:

Nice post, and while I am not entirely convinced TT is the man for the job. We need to take a step back and see how this plays out over the next year or 2. By then, he will have had 3-4 draft classes under his belt and his HC will have had 2-3 years to prove his worth.

 

[packerfan4ever]

welcome aboard and i hope you are right but it is hard to wach games like the one on sunday i will give our coach a chance like this sunday if it plays out like it did last sunday then i will worry

 

[warhawk]

welcome aboard and i hope you are right but it is hard to wach games like the one on sunday i will give our coach a chance like this sunday if it plays out like it did last sunday then i will worry

I think we need a little more patience than one week. We started five players who played in their first real NFL game vs. a team that had brought back all 22 guys. It showed. they played together as a team while we were out there trying to find that but were not there yet.

When we are in that position where these guys have experience under their belt, which includes a defense with several new players, than we can expect to see the quality of play we are hoping to see and would like to see right now.

We are going to have some rough goes. Smith was what his first year? Five and eleven. It's not like these guys can't play. They just need some time playing together.

We are going to have a hard time early on against teams that have been together for a while like this. I would expect to see us fair better against a team Like the Saints who have also changed around a lot of players as well.

Even if that holds true and we do perform better in that situation I wouldn't say it was a sign we are turning any corners just yet. It will take time and it will take experience.

if we are out there holding our own and playing with a lot more consistancy in the last four or five games I will have felt we have accomplished the mission.

 

[pyledriver80]

Okay,

I know the last think you guys want is some Bears' troll in here giving you crap for not showing up yesterday, but that's really not my intent. I've been sort of lurking on this board for the last couple weeks, and I have some thoughts to add.

1.) Lay off the GM a little bit. When Angelo took over for Chicago, we saw a 13-3 team become a 3-13 team ALMOST immediately. We wanted the man's head on a pole, but the truth of the matter was that we were an old team at the end of a (short) talent streak. Green bay is at the same point right now. Give it time, you will see the fruits.

2.) Dont EXPECT to win, and be happy with the picks you guys will get. The Bears have made not the best use of our 1st rounders, but building through the draft is the ONLY way. This takes a couple years, and you dont want to be like the Vikings/Redskins/Raiders who sign a TON of big name FA's EVERY year and still suck.

3.) Dont let your love for Brett blind you. He is hampering this team's development and should step aside. IMO, he'd be a perfect fit in Washington as someone suggested. If Rogers is the guy, you NEED to know and he NEEDS reps. By the time the talent of the rest of this team catches up to be competitive, Brett will be gone, and you'll be in a desperate QB search like Chicago. Get the young guy some reps and cut the ties. I have the utmost respect for Brett, and he may have played decent in the 1st half yesterday, but he has been HORRIBLE against Chicago recently.

4.) Drink some beer, eat some Brats and watch your young guys develop. It hurts to lose, but its oh so sweet to watch these young guys grow up and start to win for you. Give it 2-3 years, and you'll be looking at another playoff run.

Aloha. Dont ban me. :wink:

glad to have you on the board. maybe youre right about what you said. how much more time should thompson and mccarthy have?

Nice Post........BUT you seem to forget one thing. The Bears HAVE NOT been back to the Super Bowl and won't be there until they improve thier offense.


This is Packer Land, people apparently are not happy with playoff appearences, just ask Mike Sherman. Sherman led us to the playoffs year after year and people still bash him.

The bar is the Super Bowl I guess. If not, there is no need to be a playoff team. According to some Packer Fans logic Lovie Smith has been a TERRIBLE coach and your GM stinks because you have not been to the Super Bowl for 2 decades. Instead, you should go 4-12 and say you are rebuilding.

I wasnt implying that Green Bay should be happy with what Chicago considers success, but the formula for success remains the same. If some Pack fans think Lovie is a "TERRIBLE" that's fine. If "TERRIBLE" means beating the Pack 4 of every 5 games and holding Brett to 8 INTs and 0 TDs in the last few games, then I'll take "TERRIBLE" every time.

Thanks for turning this into a rival "smack talk" thread by the way. Im more than happy to oblige.
I was just trying to give a little bit of perspective in a down time. Sorry, I guess.

No Bear, this was not intended to be a smack post whatsoever. I am just making a point.

Mike Sherman had us in the playoffs every year and it was unappreciated. Mike Sherman had us beating the Bears. Heck, Mike Sherman had us scoring points, and it wasn't enough.

Using the Bears as an example does not fit. You have not returned to the Super Bowl. All you have done is gone to the playoffs and lost. I would take that every year, but some Packer fans would rather go 4-12 if we could not make the Super Bowl. Mike Sherman did just what the Bears are doing now, and he is not appreciated.

 

[DakotaT]

Okay,

I know the last think you guys want is some Bears' troll in here giving you crap for not showing up yesterday, but that's really not my intent. I've been sort of lurking on this board for the last couple weeks, and I have some thoughts to add.

1.) Lay off the GM a little bit. When Angelo took over for Chicago, we saw a 13-3 team become a 3-13 team ALMOST immediately. We wanted the man's head on a pole, but the truth of the matter was that we were an old team at the end of a (short) talent streak. Green bay is at the same point right now. Give it time, you will see the fruits.

2.) Dont EXPECT to win, and be happy with the picks you guys will get. The Bears have made not the best use of our 1st rounders, but building through the draft is the ONLY way. This takes a couple years, and you dont want to be like the Vikings/Redskins/Raiders who sign a TON of big name FA's EVERY year and still suck.

3.) Dont let your love for Brett blind you. He is hampering this team's development and should step aside. IMO, he'd be a perfect fit in Washington as someone suggested. If Rogers is the guy, you NEED to know and he NEEDS reps. By the time the talent of the rest of this team catches up to be competitive, Brett will be gone, and you'll be in a desperate QB search like Chicago. Get the young guy some reps and cut the ties. I have the utmost respect for Brett, and he may have played decent in the 1st half yesterday, but he has been HORRIBLE against Chicago recently.

4.) Drink some beer, eat some Brats and watch your young guys develop. It hurts to lose, but its oh so sweet to watch these young guys grow up and start to win for you. Give it 2-3 years, and you'll be looking at another playoff run.

Aloha. Dont ban me. wink

glad to have you on the board. maybe youre right about what you said. how much more time should thompson and mccarthy have?

Nice Post........BUT you seem to forget one thing. The Bears HAVE NOT been back to the Super Bowl and won't be there until they improve thier offense.


This is Packer Land, people apparently are not happy with playoff appearences, just ask Mike Sherman. Sherman led us to the playoffs year after year and people still bash him.

The bar is the Super Bowl I guess. If not, there is no need to be a playoff team. According to some Packer Fans logic Lovie Smith has been a TERRIBLE coach and your GM stinks because you have not been to the Super Bowl for 2 decades. Instead, you should go 4-12 and say you are rebuilding.

I wasnt implying that Green Bay should be happy with what Chicago considers success, but the formula for success remains the same. If some Pack fans think Lovie is a "TERRIBLE" that's fine. If "TERRIBLE" means beating the Pack 4 of every 5 games and holding Brett to 8 INTs and 0 TDs in the last few games, then I'll take "TERRIBLE" every time.

Thanks for turning this into a rival "smack talk" thread by the way. D Im more than happy to oblige.
I was just trying to give a little bit of perspective in a down time. Sorry, I guess.

No Bear, this was not intended to be a smack post whatsoever. I am just making a point.

Mike Sherman had us in the playoffs every year and it was unappreciated. Mike Sherman had us beating the Bears. Heck, Mike Sherman had us scoring points, and it wasn't enough.

Using the Bears as an example does not fit. You have not returned to the Super Bowl. All you have done is gone to the playoffs and lost. I would take that every year, but some Packer fans would rather go 4-12 if we could not make the Super Bowl. Mike Sherman did just what the Bears are doing now, and he is not appreciated.

It be nice if you would talk for only yourself and not other Packer Fans.

Most of us did not hate TT, we tolerated him until all of his mistakes finally caught up with him around 2004 and 2005.

You on the other hand fail to recognize any flaws of Sherman, dump all of our current problems TT, and crucify TT in about 80% of your posts. Does that about sum it up, or do I exagerrate?

 

[Greg C.]

No Bear, this was not intended to be a smack post whatsoever. I am just making a point.

Mike Sherman had us in the playoffs every year and it was unappreciated. Mike Sherman had us beating the Bears. Heck, Mike Sherman had us scoring points, and it wasn't enough.

Using the Bears as an example does not fit. You have not returned to the Super Bowl. All you have done is gone to the playoffs and lost. I would take that every year, but some Packer fans would rather go 4-12 if we could not make the Super Bowl. Mike Sherman did just what the Bears are doing now, and he is not appreciated.

If the Bears are not able to rise above their current level within the next two or three years, their fans will begin to grumble, and they will be right to do so. When Sherman was here, I enjoyed making the playoffs the first couple times, but then it became too predictable when we kept losing in the playoffs to teams that weren't even very good. There has to be at least some hope of winning a championship in order to keep fans happy, but Sherman's Packers were stuck in neutral.

 

[pyledriver80]

No Bear, this was not intended to be a smack post whatsoever. I am just making a point.

Mike Sherman had us in the playoffs every year and it was unappreciated. Mike Sherman had us beating the Bears. Heck, Mike Sherman had us scoring points, and it wasn't enough.

Using the Bears as an example does not fit. You have not returned to the Super Bowl. All you have done is gone to the playoffs and lost. I would take that every year, but some Packer fans would rather go 4-12 if we could not make the Super Bowl. Mike Sherman did just what the Bears are doing now, and he is not appreciated.

If the Bears are not able to rise above their current level within the next two or three years, their fans will begin to grumble, and they will be right to do so. When Sherman was here, I enjoyed making the playoffs the first couple times, but then it became too predictable when we kept losing in the playoffs to teams that weren't even very good. There has to be at least some hope of winning a championship in order to keep fans happy, but Sherman's Packers were stuck in neutral.

You say there has to be "at least some hope" of a championship. Making the playoffs is a pretty good start. You had no hope with MS's playoff appearances but have hope with a 4-12 team? Am I missing something?

 

[Greg C.]

You say there has to be "at least some hope" of a championship. Making the playoffs is a pretty good start. You had no hope with MS's playoff appearances but have hope with a 4-12 team? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something. I don't have any immediate hope because clearly the team is not going to be a contender this year, and maybe not next year either. All I am hoping for at this point is that the Packers return to prominence in the next few years. Whether that will actually happen is anybody's guess. But I just didn't see them going any farther with Sherman. In 2003 and 2004 the team had a lot of talent in place on offense and was relatively injury-free, but both years they had to scramble just to get into the playoffs, and they did not do much once they got in. With relatively low draft picks and very little salary cap room, I did not see how they were going to improve the defense very much.

 

[pyledriver80]

You say there has to be "at least some hope" of a championship. Making the playoffs is a pretty good start. You had no hope with MS's playoff appearances but have hope with a 4-12 team? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something. I don't have any immediate hope because clearly the team is not going to be a contender this year, and maybe not next year either. All I am hoping for at this point is that the Packers return to prominence in the next few years. Whether that will actually happen is anybody's guess. But I just didn't see them going any farther with Sherman. In 2003 and 2004 the team had a lot of talent in place on offense and was relatively injury-free, but both years they had to scramble just to get into the playoffs, and they did not do much once they got in. With relatively low draft picks and very little salary cap room, I did not see how they were going to improve the defense very much.

I understand that but if you are getting to the playoffs consistently you can't be THAT far away. Why go and rebuild a Playoff team? Thats like hiking up a mountain then getting 50 feet from the top and rolling back down.


Also, I don't know where the optimism comes from. It HAS to be just pure faith. There is nothing that TT has done that gives me any hope.

 

[Greg C.]

I understand that but if you are getting to the playoffs consistently you can't be THAT far away. Why go and rebuild a Playoff team? Thats like hiking up a mountain then getting 50 feet from the top and rolling back down.

Also, I don't know where the optimism comes from. It HAS to be just pure faith. There is nothing that TT has done that gives me any hope.

Those are legitimate points. It's just a difference of opinion, I guess. I just don't think they were that close to the top of the mountain. When 12 out of 32 teams make the playoffs, it is really not that much of a distinction, and the Packers' record was slightly inflated during those years because the other three teams in the division were struggling.

And, by the way, I'm not particularly optimistic. Thompson has made several moves that have made no sense to me. On the other hand, he has brought in a lot of young players, and the jury is still out on them. Same thing with the coaching staff. I will give Thompson three years, maybe four, at which point I will probably be calling for his head if his efforts are not bearing any fruit. I gave Sherman five years.