Is a Rebuild Possible in 2023

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
15,893
Reaction score
3,797
I don't care what Love did in college anymore, it may as well have been a lifetime ago. We have hardly seen anything to know. He did look much improved last year vs his first 2 in very limited action. BUT it was 1 read, throw the ball on time against a team that wasn't not playing to pressure the offense, just stop a score. While encouraging, even Mitch Trib could do that. He turned into quite the **** once teams figured out his tendencies on alignments and situations and took that 1st read away.

It's what happens after the 1 read and what happens after teams have 6 weeks, 1 season, 2 seasons etc of tape to scheme against you. That's when it will show itself. Can he throw the ball? yeah, looked a lot better last season than previously. But there is so much more to the game that we just won't know until we know.
 

Sanguine camper

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
592
Assuming that Love can play which is a huge assumption, the Packers are at least 4 - 6 proven players away from making a deep playoff run along with more depth. They need a run stuffing d lineman, a TE, another good WR, safety, Kicker and a pass rusher to replace Preston Smith in the near future. Unless the Packers get a huge haul in a Rodgers trade, they don't have the draft picks and salary cap to get all of those players in a single off season. Draft picks are hit and miss and take time to develop. Gute would gave to be perfect on his picks and FA signings for the Packers to be favored for a deep playoff run in 2023.
 

Magooch

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
Messages
794
Reaction score
759
The one thing that might be working in our favor is that IMO this year's draft class is less of a "star" class and more of a "depth" one. If we can leverage Rodgers into the #13 pick and change, with that and our own #15 we have a lot of flexibility to work with. Might not be any one or two "stars" that we would want to take with those picks (or move up to get), but it may be a situation in which it might make sense to turn around and flip those into multiple picks to fill out more spots for us around Love.

Similarly I think many would suggest that next year's draft class is shaping up to be a stronger one than this one so may also allow them to flip into more picks next year and more or less use this season as a "reset" or etc.

But in any case I largely agree. With Rodgers gone (and TBH one might argue even if Rodgers returned) I don't see us as being a super serious contender in 2023 and for me either way it will probably be a "bridge" year until hitting it hard again in 2024.
 

Schultz

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
2,853
Reaction score
1,629
Yeah Yeah. You want your cake and to eat it too. Obviously. Actually, I don't completely understand the logic of that old saying.:(
So you get a birthday cake on your birthday. Then you want to eat the whole cake and not share with others.
 

David Ciembronowicz

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Messages
109
Reaction score
48
Location
iron river
Rebuilds typically will take 2-3 years unless you really ,really pick up talented players in FA, Draft, etc.... This GB team has way too many "what if's" now and they are in rebuild mode effectively. Lazard gone, WR's questionable/young; a new rarely used QB with a back-up that has seen little to no action; an OL that has a guy who everyone says is All-Pro but has knees that say otherwise, the rest of the OL questions abound; no TE's as both are FA's.... let's see does that sound like "rebuild"..... A defense that was up and down, played really, really well in stretches, but also gave up lost of points down the stretch in games and failed to "seal the deal". S and CB issues, DL has questions and LB's had injuries... sounds like "rebuild". They still have minimal cap available, they have lots of holes to fill and if they do it with draftpicks and middling FA's then you know GB is in full rebuild mode. This year will be a bumpy ride and IMO 2024 as well; actually a question for 2024, QB Love is in his 5th year, what do they do for 2024 if he does not play up to expectations???????? In this division now GB is going to be playing catch-up with the Vikings and Lions, about equal to the Bears situation come September.
 

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
25,379
Reaction score
4,101
Location
Milwaukee
Rebuilds typically will take 2-3 years unless you really ,really pick up talented players in FA, Draft, etc.... This GB team has way too many "what if's" now and they are in rebuild mode effectively. Lazard gone, WR's questionable/young; a new rarely used QB with a back-up that has seen little to no action; an OL that has a guy who everyone says is All-Pro but has knees that say otherwise, the rest of the OL questions abound; no TE's as both are FA's.... let's see does that sound like "rebuild"..... A defense that was up and down, played really, really well in stretches, but also gave up lost of points down the stretch in games and failed to "seal the deal". S and CB issues, DL has questions and LB's had injuries... sounds like "rebuild". They still have minimal cap available, they have lots of holes to fill and if they do it with draftpicks and middling FA's then you know GB is in full rebuild mode. This year will be a bumpy ride and IMO 2024 as well; actually a question for 2024, QB Love is in his 5th year, what do they do for 2024 if he does not play up to expectations???????? In this division now GB is going to be playing catch-up with the Vikings and Lions, about equal to the Bears situation come September.
So 1 year and you want to write off love?
 

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
3,036
This team is going to have to take its cap medicine in the near future but the infrastructure in 2023 won’t require a rebuild. I think they’re doing everything they can to keep things stable around Love so that they can get a real assessment of him.

If you look at the depth chart, the roster is quite good in the starting lineups. They need help at key spots and depth is always a work in progress, but this isn’t a bad roster. If Love can play, they can compete. They need to add at pass catcher and the safety.

The biggest problem is that the DC doesn’t seem to be able to make things work even with all the talent at his disposal. They produced less than the sum of their parts last year.
 

rmontro

Cheesehead
Joined
Feb 8, 2017
Messages
4,657
Reaction score
1,310
What we’ve learned in similar O systems is that while Love might be nowhere close to Aaron Rodgers as a Pure Passer, it’s not the only way to win. The MLF Style Offense is Robust in that it is predicated through flexibility of zone run, leaks, bootlegs, play action or misdirection. You don’t need a prolific passer to be successful. It takes QB mobility and lots of pre-snap gyrations.
This is my biggest hope when it comes to Love. He might take direction better than Rodgers and actually run MLF's offense the way it is designed. Watching the Packers last year shook some of my faith in MLF though.
 

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
25,379
Reaction score
4,101
Location
Milwaukee
This is my biggest hope when it comes to Love. He might take direction better than Rodgers and actually run MLF's offense the way it is designed. Watching the Packers last year shook some of my faith in MLF though.
Rodgers did say he felt like a game manager
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
Lazard gone, WR's questionable/young; a new rarely used QB with a back-up that has seen little to no action; an OL that has a guy who everyone says is All-Pro but has knees that say otherwise, the rest of the OL questions abound; no TE's as both are FA's....

Bakhtiari looked to be fully healthy in the later stages of last season.

This year will be a bumpy ride and IMO 2024 as well; actually a question for 2024, QB Love is in his 5th year, what do they do for 2024 if he does not play up to expectations????????

In my opinion the Packers shouldn't feel comfortable about exercising the fifth year option on Love.

If you look at the depth chart, the roster is quite good in the starting lineups. They need help at key spots and depth is always a work in progress, but this isn’t a bad roster. If Love can play, they can compete. They need to add at pass catcher and the safety.

The roster isn't good enough to be a legit playoff contender with a first year starting quarterback. If Love doesn't excel there's a decent chance they will compete for the #1 overall draft pick in 2024.
 

Pkrjones

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
3,856
Reaction score
1,766
Location
Northern IL
This is my biggest hope when it comes to Love. He might take direction better than Rodgers and actually run MLF's offense the way it is designed. Watching the Packers last year shook some of my faith in MLF though.
So what you're saying is on 3rd & 3 we won't see as many 30 yard passes? ;)
 

Sanguine camper

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
592
The roster has a great nucleus of young talent. The problem is the chronic dropoff in talent at the holes in the roster. Too frequently, the Packers go from stars to well below average players. The team is 4-6 proven players away from a deep playoff run if Love is any good. Is that a rebuild? Depends, the holes will probably not be fixed in a single off season. If Love sucks, the team will definately be in a rebuild mode.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
The roster has a great nucleus of young talent. The problem is the chronic dropoff in talent at the holes in the roster. Too frequently, the Packers go from stars to well below average players.

Who are those young star players? I would include Jenkins while at left guard (not a premium position), Alexander, Clark, Gary, Aaron Jones (not that young for a RB anymore) in that list. Other than that Doubs, Stokes and Watson might have the potential to develop into upper echelon players. That's not a huge amount of elite talent though.
 

Sanguine camper

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
592
Who are those young star players? I would include Jenkins while at left guard (not a premium position), Alexander, Clark, Gary, Aaron Jones (not that young for a RB anymore) in that list. Other than that Doubs, Stokes and Watson might have the potential to develop into upper echelon players. That's not a huge amount of elite talent though.
I would add to that group Zach Tom, Stokes, Walker. Those three have shown that they are on track to be well above average players given semi-competant coaching. Watson looked great but his sample size is too small to make a judgement. If he continues the course of the second half of last season, he will be a pivotal player. What Zach Tom showed as a rookie at multiple positions is the performance that Jenkins showed us as a rookie. Walker has elite coverage skills. The young talent is there, I have my doubts about coaching, however. While Runyan may never be a pro bowl caliber player, developing into an above average player is also nothing to discount.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,141
Reaction score
5,014
My opinion of roster currently:

Established ELITE guys (which to me means argument exists to say they're Top 5 in their position): Jaire, Gary, Clark, Jenkins, Bakh, Jones

SOLID NFL starters who wouldn't surprise anyone with a Pro Bowl type year: Preston Smith, DeVondre Campbell,

Potentially ELITE guys ascending: Watson, Wyatt, Tom

SOLID NFL guys ascending: AJ Dillon, Romeo Doubs, Yosh Nijman (RFA), Quay Walker, Eric Stokes, Nixon (solely in the returner function role),

SOLID NFL guys I don't envision growth a ton: Rasul Douglas, Josh Myers,

Capable Starters that are a coin flip what they become: Savage, Runyan,

BIG TIME UNKNOWN: Love
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
I would add to that group Zach Tom, Stokes, Walker. Those three have shown that they are on track to be well above average players given semi-competant coaching. What Zach Tom showed as a rookie at multiple positions is the performance that Jenkins showed us as a rookie. Walker has elite coverage skills. The young talent is there, I have my doubts about coaching, however. While Runyan may never be a pro bowl caliber player, developing into an above average player is also nothing to discount.

I agree that both Tom and Walker showed promise during their rookie campaign, hopefully they will be able to improve even further. Stokes regressed during his second season before getting injured though. My point is that the Packers don't have a lot of young talented players compared to most other teams in the league though.
 

Sanguine camper

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
592
I agree that both Tom and Walker showed promise during their rookie campaign, hopefully they will be able to improve even further. Stokes regressed during his second season before getting injured though. My point is that the Packers don't have a lot of young talented players compared to most other teams in the league though.
Other than Jefferson and Hockenson, who on the Vikings is a young star? I like O'Niell at RT but he'll be 28 next season. Darrisaw is ok but not a budding star. I think you can take a look at a lot of teams and only find 3 to 4 young players that are pro bowl players or have that potential. Look at the Rams, other than Cooper Kupp, they don't have a lot of young players with star potential. A couple of teams like the Jets have a lot of young talent. I think they are the exception.
 

PikeBadger

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
6,486
Reaction score
1,818
My opinion of roster currently:

Established ELITE guys (which to me means argument exists to say they're Top 5 in their position): Jaire, Gary, Clark, Jenkins, Bakh, Jones

SOLID NFL starters who wouldn't surprise anyone with a Pro Bowl type year: Preston Smith, DeVondre Campbell,

Potentially ELITE guys ascending: Watson, Wyatt, Tom

SOLID NFL guys ascending: AJ Dillon, Romeo Doubs, Yosh Nijman (RFA), Quay Walker, Eric Stokes, Nixon (solely in the returner function role),

SOLID NFL guys I don't envision growth a ton: Rasul Douglas, Josh Myers,

Capable Starters that are a coin flip what they become: Savage, Runyan,

BIG TIME UNKNOWN: Love
I agree with 5 of your 6 established elite players. I don't think Jenkins is there yet. Five elite players is a very good core group to build around. We are better than most here appear to give us credit for imo. I like the talent level here and expect it to improve. I think we are on a good track if Rodgers leaves.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,141
Reaction score
5,014
I agree with 5 of your 6 established elite players. I don't think Jenkins is there yet. Five elite players is a very good core group to build around. We are better than most here appear to give us credit for imo. I like the talent level here and expect it to improve. I think we are on a good track if Rodgers leaves.

Honeslty I thought Jones was my biggest one open for critique due to positional value but I get the sentiment on Jenkins, he could be easily argued is a solid pro bowl guy but not elite as of this moment - his injury seems to slowed him down.
 

PikeBadger

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
6,486
Reaction score
1,818
Honeslty I thought Jones was my biggest one open for critique due to positional value but I get the sentiment on Jenkins, he could be easily argued is a solid pro bowl guy but not elite as of this moment - his injury seems to slowed him down.
I fully expect Jenkins to play better this year than he did last season. Lots of guys returning from ACL surgery don't look as good their first year back. That's why my expectations for Gary this season aren't all that great. I doubt he will be as good as he was in 2021.
 

PackAttack12

R-E-L-A-X
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
6,499
Reaction score
2,157
I don't care what Love did in college anymore, it may as well have been a lifetime ago. We have hardly seen anything to know. He did look much improved last year vs his first 2 in very limited action. BUT it was 1 read, throw the ball on time against a team that wasn't not playing to pressure the offense, just stop a score. While encouraging, even Mitch Trib could do that. He turned into quite the **** once teams figured out his tendencies on alignments and situations and took that 1st read away.

It's what happens after the 1 read and what happens after teams have 6 weeks, 1 season, 2 seasons etc of tape to scheme against you. That's when it will show itself. Can he throw the ball? yeah, looked a lot better last season than previously. But there is so much more to the game that we just won't know until we know.
This is the whole crux of it. Precisely
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,413
Reaction score
5,778
Are you telling me that Love was only able to excel while being surrounded with superior talent in the Mountain West Conference? If that's true he won't perform at a high level in the NFL. Especially considering the lack of talent at pass catchers currently on the Packers roster.
I’m telling you that Love and nearly 99.6782% of QB’s who have 9 of their 10 supporting ripped away and then go into a completely new system at OC will not dramatically excel.

It’s a recipe for disaster. Take Rodgers entire cast away and leave him with a bunch of newbies like we did at WR. Then rip away his entire coaching staff. The probability of substantial regression is very high. So now it’s not a matter of you overlooked those changes. You put out superhuman expectations on a completely new system. Luckily our personnel staff is wiser than that or they’d discount Love and thus allow another team in our division to snag him on the cheap in Day 2.
 
Last edited:

PikeBadger

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
6,486
Reaction score
1,818
This is the whole crux of it. Precisely
I'm fully expecting ups and downs and inconsistencies from Love this season just like most all NFL players in their first year of full time action. It's up to LaFleur to keep Love in positions where he's most likely to succeed.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,141
Reaction score
5,014
I fully expect Jenkins to play better this year than he did last season. Lots of guys returning from ACL surgery don't look as good their first year back. That's why my expectations for Gary this season aren't all that great. I doubt he will be as good as he was in 2021.
I don’t disagree and I’m sure my take makes more sense now that I fleshed it out some.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,413
Reaction score
5,778
I don't care what Love did in college anymore, it may as well have been a lifetime ago. We have hardly seen anything to know. He did look much improved last year vs his first 2 in very limited action. BUT it was 1 read, throw the ball on time against a team that wasn't not playing to pressure the offense, just stop a score. While encouraging, even Mitch Trib could do that. He turned into quite the **** once teams figured out his tendencies on alignments and situations and took that 1st read away.

It's what happens after the 1 read and what happens after teams have 6 weeks, 1 season, 2 seasons etc of tape to scheme against you. That's when it will show itself. Can he throw the ball? yeah, looked a lot better last season than previously. But there is so much more to the game that we just won't know until we know.
This is very true. The past is the past and anything past maybe 2022 is irrelevant for Love.

I think his key attributes that I liked anyway are arm strength and ability to manage the system presented to him. One other aspect I like about Love is he is very competitive. He’s being attacked from every side and he’ll still make a completion while being assaulted. He’s got that Favre-Mahomes trait he’s a fighter to the last Mili second. Just an observation in his play so far. He’s very resilient. It’s a trait I see in varying degrees in maybe 33% of QB’s and I don’t believe it’s taught.

On the other hand I noticed he needs refinement on reads. He needs to recognize that a soft touch is as formidable as a 40 yard bullet. He’s got 1 gear and it’s overdrive. He’s got a cannon of an arm and he wants to make a play, but sometimes you have to live to see another down. That should come with experience and great QB coaching
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest posts

Top