Is a Rebuild Possible in 2023

Mondio

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He definitely has the physical attributes to be a good or better QB. I don’t think there is any denying that
 
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Other than Jefferson and Hockenson, who on the Vikings is a young star? I like O'Niell at RT but he'll be 28 next season. Darrisaw is ok but not a budding star. I think you can take a look at a lot of teams and only find 3 to 4 young players that are pro bowl players or have that potential. Look at the Rams, other than Cooper Kupp, they don't have a lot of young players with star potential. A couple of teams like the Jets have a lot of young talent. I think they are the exception.

I would have to make a thorough investigation on all other teams in the league to be able to fairly evaluate the situation. Honestly I don't want to put in the work.

With that being said I have the impression that the Packers lack young talent compared to many teams in the league. That might as well not be true though.

I’m telling you that Love and nearly 99.6782% of QB’s who have 9 of their 10 supporting ripped away and then go into a completely new system at OC will not dramatically excel.

It’s a recipe for disaster. Take Rodgers entire cast away and leave him with a bunch of newbies like we did at WR. Then rip away his entire coaching staff. The probability of substantial regression is very high. So now it’s not a matter of you overlooked those changes. You put out superhuman expectations on a completely new system. Luckily our personnel staff is wiser than that or they’d discount Love and thus allow another team in our division to snag him on the cheap in Day 2.

So what you're telling me is that a quarterback changing teams in the offseason has basically no chance of succeeding the following season? If that's true how did Russell Wilson excel with the Badgers? How did all those other QBs who transferred perform at a high level?

As I mentioned before I consider it to be a lame excuse for Love struggling in 2019. Especially for a first round talent facing inferior competition in the Mountain West conference.

Just let me clear about one thing (although most of you will ignore it anyway). That doesn't mean I believe Love will fail at the pro level because of it. I consider it a valid reason for concern though.
 
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I don't expect much this year, though hopefully we see development and improvement with flashes of full potential (both Love and the new players/team as a whole).

I think we can get back on track on offense if Love is the guy and we draft well on offense/add new offensive players this year and next. Those are two big ifs though.

One thing that does make me feel better about the future is that I think MLF is a good offensive-minded coach, and the scheme/type of offense we run is quarterback friendly, plus we have and now prioritize a good Oline along with a running game (So, I don't think that Love needs to be as good as Rodgers or Favre). However, we still need to prioritize offense in the next couple of drafts as well as make good selections. We also obviously need Love to be good or quickly find his replacement.

If we want to win a Super Bowl in the future, we need to get better as an organization on defense. Both the 2011 and 97 teams had great defenses and I think defense has been a major reason we only have 1 Superbowl each under Favre and Rodgers. While it is probably hard to be elite on defense all of the time, I think a good coordinator along with good drafting/development of defensive players will get you defenses that are almost always at least decent, very good most years, with forays into elite territory.

Not sure if Barry is the guy, I have my doubts. I think we are talented against the pass and at the back and middle of the field, but we need better run stoppers and to get better up front on the defense.

As for how long it takes us to get back into winning, I am thinking 1-2, maybe 3 years if Love is the guy and longer if Love doesn't pan out.
 

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If we want to win a Super Bowl in the future, we need to get better as an organization on defense. Both the 2011 and 97 teams had great defenses and I think defense has been a major reason we only have 1 Superbowl each under Favre and Rodgers. While it is probably hard to be elite on defense all of the time, I think a good coordinator along with good drafting/development of defensive players will get you defenses that are almost always at least decent, very good most years, with forays into elite territory.
Even the great TB12 never won a SB without a top tier (8+) defense.
 

rmontro

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The biggest problem is that the DC doesn’t seem to be able to make things work even with all the talent at his disposal. They produced less than the sum of their parts last year.
Oh yeah, what happened to that "Fire Barry" business? Guess we're stuck with him another year? Maybe since expectations are low anyway, he gets another year to prove himself.
 
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One thing that does make me feel better about the future is that I think MLF is a good offensive-minded coach, and the scheme/type of offense we run is quarterback friendly, plus we have and now prioritize a good Oline along with a running game (So, I don't think that Love needs to be as good as Rodgers or Favre).

I'm not convinced the Packers really have a good offensive line without a quarterback capable of making up for some of their deficiencies.
 

PackerDNA

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I'm not convinced the Packers really have a good offensive line without a quarterback capable of making up for some of their deficiencies.

Outside of Bakh and Jenkins playing at their best, this is not a very good offensive line. Put them up against a good physical front such as the 49ers, and they usually get their ***** kicked.
 
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I'm not convinced the Packers really have a good offensive line without a quarterback capable of making up for some of their deficiencies.
How so?

Usually, a QB can't overcome a bad offensive line unless he is a very good runner/scrambler and/or has a very quick release.

Plus, usually your receivers can't get open, nor can your running game work if you have a bad offensive line, and I thought we were known for having a good offensive line throughout the league during Rodger's tenure. Our offensive lines have also consistently had good rankings by Pro Football Focus.

There have been times, particularly over the last couple of years, where we had a lot of injuries on the line, and I would agree that the backup guards we currently have are not very good.
 
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Mondio

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Rodgers still manipulates a pocket as good or better than anyone that has ever played the QB position. You don’t have to run to help your oline. And being quick to diagnose a blitz and know where to attack and how helps more than people realize.
 
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Usually, a QB can't overcome a bad offensive line unless he is a very good runner/scrambler and/or has a very quick release.

While a quarterback can't completely overcome a bad offensive line he can make up for some of their deficiencies as other posters have explained above.
 

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Rodgers still manipulates a pocket as good or better than anyone that has ever played the QB position. You don’t have to run to help your oline. And being quick to diagnose a blitz and know where to attack and how helps more than people realize.
When Favre learned that I have bolded, is when he became the most dangerous player in the NFL.
 

Curly Calhoun

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I don't care what Love did in college anymore, it may as well have been a lifetime ago. We have hardly seen anything to know. He did look much improved last year vs his first 2 in very limited action. BUT it was 1 read, throw the ball on time against a team that wasn't not playing to pressure the offense, just stop a score. While encouraging, even Mitch Trib could do that. He turned into quite the **** once teams figured out his tendencies on alignments and situations and took that 1st read away.

It's what happens after the 1 read and what happens after teams have 6 weeks, 1 season, 2 seasons etc of tape to scheme against you. That's when it will show itself. Can he throw the ball? yeah, looked a lot better last season than previously. But there is so much more to the game that we just won't know until we know.

Is it possible? Of course. Will it happen? We can only guess.

The Packers have been looking at Love for three years now in practice, and evidently, they like what they see. You never really know, of course, until he's actually out there playing in games that matter, and it all hinges on whether or not he's up to the task.

We'll know one way or the other soon enough...It does little good to fret about it now.

If Love turns out to be a disaster, then the Pack will likely be in good draft position and possibly look for his replacement. If he is good enough to be your starter of the future, then Green Bay's challenge will be to surround him with talent.

Either way, it's going to be different. And with Aaron seemingly in decline and getting weirder every day (darkness retreat?), that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
 

PikeBadger

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Is it possible? Of course. Will it happen? We can only guess.

The Packers have been looking at Love for three years now in practice, and evidently, they like what they see. You never really know, of course, until he's actually out there playing in games that matter, and it all hinges on whether or not he's up to the task.

We'll know one way or the other soon enough...It does little good to fret about it now.

If Love turns out to be a disaster, then the Pack will likely be in good draft position and possibly look for his replacement. If he is good enough to be your starter of the future, then Green Bay's challenge will be to surround him with talent.

Either way, it's going to be different. And with Aaron seemingly in decline and getting weirder every day (darkness retreat?), that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
If we can add a couple of nice offensive pieces in each of the next two drafts, I think we'll be fine. It looks like we are headed in the direction of 10 draft picks in each of the next two drafts, so the opportunity will be there I believe.
 
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If he is good enough to be your starter of the future, then Green Bay's challenge will be to surround him with talent.

The Packers haven't done anything to surround Love with better talent this offseason though. Actually they have regressed on that side of the ball having lost Lazard and Tonyan in free agency so far. At this point they aren't setting him up for success.
 

Pkrjones

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The Packers haven't done anything to surround Love with better talent this offseason though. Actually they have regressed on that side of the ball having lost Lazard and Tonyan in free agency so far. At this point they aren't setting him up for success.
Gute can't really do much in FA until Rodgers is a Jet and the cap situation is more firm. Post-trade there's estimated $14Mil cap room, with approx. $4.5-$5Mil reserved for the rookie pool leaving less than $10Mil cap space. Only room for a couple of lower-priced vet additions unless they're able to extend Gary or trade Savage to give a bit more wiggle-room.
 
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So what you're telling me is that a quarterback changing teams in the offseason has basically no chance of succeeding the following season? If that's true how did Russell Wilson excel with the Badgers?
I never said that.

I said a College Junior
(Russell was not, he was a College Senior who CHOSE his program if I recall?) is most often not experienced enough to overcome a team (entire Coaching Staff overhaul) who goes through a FULL rebuild.

Once again, A+ For trying but not the best example. Russell Wilson’s Coaching Staff was not completely new. That Badger’s System was firmly established. Think Brady and Tampa here. The Badgers Coach Bret Bielema was in his 6th season when Russell joined up.

Although I loved what Russell did. I followed him a little at NC and WI
 
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tynimiller

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I never said that.

I said a College Junior
(Russell was not, he was a College Senior who CHOSE his program if I recall?) is most often not experienced enough to overcome a team (entire Coaching Staff overhaul) who goes through a FULL rebuild.

Terrible example. Russell Wilson’s Coaching Staff was not completely new. That Badger’s System was firmly established. The Badgers Coach Bret Bielema was in his 6th season when Russell joined,
not his 1st?

It simply isn’t worth it man, you’re absolutely correct.
 
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Gute can't really do much in FA until Rodgers is a Jet and the cap situation is more firm. Post-trade there's estimated $14Mil cap room, with approx. $4.5-$5Mil reserved for the rookie pool leaving less than $10Mil cap space. Only room for a couple of lower-priced vet additions unless they're able to extend Gary or trade Savage to give a bit more wiggle-room.

Gutekunst is well aware of the cap implications of trading Rodgers, therefore it doesn't prevent him from making moves in free agency. It's definitely true the Packers don't have a lot of cap space to work with though.

I said a College Junior
(Russell was not, he was a College Senior who CHOSE his program if I recall?) is most often not experienced enough to overcome a team (entire Coaching Staff overhaul) who goes through a FULL rebuild.

Once again, A+ For trying but not the best example. Russell Wilson’s Coaching Staff was not completely new. That Badger’s System was firmly established. Think Brady and Tampa here. The Badgers Coach Bret Bielema was in his 6th season when Russell joined up.

Although I loved what Russell did. I followed him a little at NC and WI

I'm sorry but I firmly disagree that a first round talent shouldn't be able to overcome a new coaching staff being established. I highly doubt that had anything to do with him throwing more interceptions than any other quarterback in the FBS that season.
 

Curly Calhoun

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The Packers haven't done anything to surround Love with better talent this offseason though. Actually they have regressed on that side of the ball having lost Lazard and Tonyan in free agency so far. At this point they aren't setting him up for success.

Not this year, at least as far as free agency is concerned. That is likely due to the Pack being up against the cap.

It will be interesting to see how the Packers draft this year. They still have big needs on defense (edge rusher, safety, defensive line), but they also need weapons on offense and perhaps a premium tackle such as Paris Johnson or Skoronski to protect Love. A lot will depend on the compensation they receive from the Jets.
 

tynimiller

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Not this year, at least as far as free agency is concerned. That is likely due to the Pack being up against the cap.

It will be interesting to see how the Packers draft this year. They still have big needs on defense (edge rusher, safety, defensive line), but they also need weapons on offense and perhaps a premium tackle such as Paris Johnson or Skoronski to protect Love. A lot will depend on the compensation they receive from the Jets.
Post-June first trade, GB quickly becomes a late player in FA.....sometimes there are even some incredible prospects that become available post draft cuts or releases.
 

lambeaulambo

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I look at the oline first. Newman needs to be replaced. Left side should be ok. Nijman at RT makes me nervous. Myers while ok has been dinged up. The TE position we now have the cupboard nearly bare. Doubs and Watson would need to turn into Jordy/Robert Brooks overnight. Toure is a burner, but needs more time. HULK TE RG and RT are needed to shore things up. GNG probably needs 2 TEs.
 
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I'm sorry but I firmly disagree that a first round talent shouldn't be able to overcome a new coaching staff being established. I highly doubt that had anything to do with him throwing more interceptions than any other quarterback in the FBS that season.
Did you not know? It wasn’t just the entire Coaching staff it was also 9 starting players left from that Offense.

What do you think would happen with say… Aaron Rodgers is he stayed but we scrapped his entire Offense for newbies and brought in an entirely new system and coaches? You can’t tell me that wouldn’t affect him. Heck look at what just 1 WR did to Aaron. He looked like a lost Puppy. Double digit INT and one of his single worst seasons in his career.

But you think a College Junior QB Would’nt be affected by the entire team change?? Hmmmm
I’ve been played like a fiddle!
I just got this huge puzzle chunk piece and I am so stupid!
You knew this all along. Brilliantly played!
 
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