Is a Rebuild Possible in 2023

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Nobody wants to use the word "rebuild", but given the way last season ended,
how much of a "rebuild" do you think it will take. or could it really happen.

If so, it would send Aaron Rodgers packing because he stated he didn't want anything to
do with rebuilding a team, and a good reason to start J. Love.

If it meant getting back to the playoffs in 2-3 years, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Your Thoughts

 

[Mondio]

if it takes 3 years they did it wrong. Too many high production and high contract guys on this team right now outside of rodgers to not be able to take care of things quicker than 3 years. If Love is it, should be this year still or next easily.

 

[tynimiller]

My thoughts have been shared time and time again in other threads pertaining to the topic. If Love is the future, there is no rebuild at most reset is short quick thought. For in depth thoughts, probably too far like normal, check out the other threads this is being discussed a ton at.

 

[OldSchool101]

Obviously much is dependent on our QB. Also Barry doesn’t exactly give me much confidence he can turn things around. He had an All Star cast and pretty much belly flopped as the season wore on

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As others have mentioned, if Love ends up being a good quarterback the Packers might end up getting back to the playoffs pretty fast. Although they would still need to surround him with better talent at pass catchers as well as the defense needs to perform up to potential.

If Love doesn't develop as hoped for the team might be in for an extended period of missing the playoffs though.

 

[XPack]

Let's be honest. Love is not a permanent QB. Not yet. And after this many years after draft, I still don't see him helming us long term.

Maybe not now, bit I see us accepting that it was a bad draft decision in future.

 

[longtimefan]

Let's be honest. Love is not a permanent QB. Not yet. And after this many years after draft, I still don't see him helming us long term.

Maybe not now, bit I see us accepting that it was a bad draft decision in future.

On the surface, this is a valid thought. But no one out side of 1265 has a clue. Jason Wilde today was asked...Are there players on the team that thinks love is capable and ready. And he said (with out hesitation) yes. And Wilde isnt a huge Love fan

 

[tynimiller]

On the surface, this is a valid thought. But no one out side of 1265 has a clue. Jason Wilde today was asked...Are there players on the team that thinks love is capable and ready. And he said (with out hesitation) yes. And Wilde isnt a huge Love fan

Some big name guys have stressed he is, Devondre Campbell said he is better than many starters, Aaron Jones the latest to stress it - the belief is there in the locker room for sure.

 

[Mondio]

Love certainly looked to have come a long ways last year vs previous limited outings.

Much like when Rodgers came in the league I wasn’t sure he belonged in the nfl the first 2 years. Haphazard, not great decisions etc. then all of a sudden the talent matched the product and looked like they could definitely play.

But it’s always a gamble once you have to adapt to real nfl defenses gameplanning for you every week and every season. So we’ll find out one day

 

[longtimefan]

Some big name guys have stressed he is, Devondre Campbell said he is better than many starters, Aaron Jones the latest to stress it - the belief is there in the locker room for sure.

I would have used them as the examples. But some will twist and say it is pr speak.

That is why I used Jason. He wouldn't say it if a lie

 

[Mondio]

I would have used them as the examples. But some will twist and say it is pr speak.

That is why I used Jason. He wouldn't say it if a lie

I'm sure there some that are. But do conflate this with what has been going on on here. Having players in a locker have belief in a guy and say it with conviction, means a hell of a lot more than Bob "i haven't found an angle I can't make stuff up about and be completely wrong 5 years running if it concerns Aaron Rodgers" McGinn and his "intuition" type articles some of us don't accept as anymore than the utter BS they are.

They're not the same. If the players believe in a guy, it's a good thing, and I believe they really do.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I think it would be a rebuild if you blew it up, but we haven't done that. Traded Jones, Bak and anyone approaching a 3rd contract. GB has its QB of the future in Love on the roster now, so I think it's more a changing of the guard rather than a rebuild now if Rodgers is traded - similar to Smith transitioning to Mahomes (obviously we're yet to see how Love will look). We need to build a very strong offense around Love to get him going, like early Mahomes or Hurts this year.

 

[tynimiller]

I would have used them as the examples. But some will twist and say it is pr speak.

That is why I used Jason. He wouldn't say it if a lie

DeVondre straight up stopped the discussion to say it, his was far more “look I need to say something” where Jones answered a question - however was VERY strong in response.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think it would be a rebuild if you blew it up, but we haven't done that. Traded Jones, Bak and anyone approaching a 3rd contract. GB has its QB of the future in Love on the roster now, so I think it's more a changing of the guard rather than a rebuild now if Rodgers is traded - similar to Smith transitioning to Mahomes (obviously we're yet to see how Love will look). We need to build a very strong offense around Love to get him going, like early Mahomes or Hurts this year.

What we’ve learned in similar O systems is that while Love might be nowhere close to Aaron Rodgers as a Pure Passer, it’s not the only way to win. The MLF Style Offense is Robust in that it is predicated through flexibility of zone run, leaks, bootlegs, play action or misdirection. You don’t need a prolific passer to be successful. It takes QB mobility and lots of pre-snap gyrations.

Love can be plenty good enough to execute the MLF Offense and I believe he was very purposefully selected for characteristics that match up with this style Offense. He proved at Utah State that he could run a highly efficient Offense (albeit against somewhat inferior competition in the Mountain West). He managed 48 points per contest across 13 consecutive games, including a Bowl game. He did what he’s supposed to do, demolish lesser opponents.
Jordan’s only losses were against
2 nationally ranked teams, both by single digit scores (Michigan State 7pts Boise State 9pts). As a Sophomore, Love averaged 51 points per contest across the other 11 games. Averaging 27.5 against ranked teams

I don’t believe they would’ve drafted at QB unless they though he could run this style Offense and eventually run it at a high level. Rodgers himself says Jordan possesses a “Masters level” understanding of the scheme. He doesn’t hand out that type compliment unless deserved.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Some big name guys have stressed he is, Devondre Campbell said he is better than many starters, Aaron Jones the latest to stress it - the belief is there in the locker room for sure.

I don't believe any of the players know how Love will turn out as a starter either. It will take some time to figure out once he gets the opportunity if he can be successful against NFL defenses.

I think it would be a rebuild if you blew it up, but we haven't done that. Traded Jones, Bak and anyone approaching a 3rd contract. GB has its QB of the future in Love on the roster now, so I think it's more a changing of the guard rather than a rebuild now if Rodgers is traded - similar to Smith transitioning to Mahomes (obviously we're yet to see how Love will look). We need to build a very strong offense around Love to get him going, like early Mahomes or Hurts this year.

As I mentioned before, if Love turns out to be a good NFL quarterback the Packers won't need to rebuild with him. If he ends up being a bust, the team might be in for some tough times ahead though.

He proved at Utah State that he could run a highly efficient Offense (albeit against somewhat inferior competition in the Mountain West). He managed 48 points per contest across 13 consecutive games, including a Bowl game. He did what he’s supposed to do, demolish lesser opponents.
Jordan’s only losses were against
2 nationally ranked teams, both by single digit scores (Michigan State 7pts Boise State 9pts). As a Sophomore, Love averaged 51 points per contest across the other 11 games. Averaging 27.5 against ranked teams

I'm really intrigued why so many fans completely ignore the 2019 season in which Love struggled in college.

 

[Magooch]

It's hard for me to get a good read on where the team stands on Love.

Yes we have heard many from the coaching staff and the FO talk about how he is ready to play and such. The cynic in me though says that for guys like Gute and those responsible for drafting him they do kind of have a vested interest in him succeeding and/or making him look like a good pick. Obviously you are never going to hear Gute say something like "Yeah that guy we traded up to draft right before Rodgers won two MVPs? Hasn't really panned out how we had hoped, if we had a do-over we would've done differently" or whatnot. For better or worse Gute (and i suspect others in the FO) have more or less hitched their wagons to Love and really need him to work out for their sake.

And we have heard how some of our players have said that he is a good player too, ready to play, etc. But again the cynic in me says that that's more or less what they are expected to say. If I think there's a 1% chance my teammate is going to be taking over the role of starting job I'm going to make sure he feels like I've got his back and am confident to follow his lead. It's nice to hear but again you wouldn't really expect to hear otherwise, nobody in that locker room is going to come out and say "No, we want to keep going with Rodgers at QB, Love isn't ready yet" or anything of that nature.

In general I like what (little) I have seen from Love but part of me thinks if the team was THAT convinced in him they probably wouldn't have moved mountains to make sure Rodgers was back last year. And I don't know how much could've possibly changed in Love's development between last summer and now that would be different there... I am hoping for the best but their reluctance to move on from Rodgers suggests to me that either A.) They are not as convinced by Love as they are letting on or B.) they are convinced in Love but too afraid of making the hard decisions with Rodgers to move on or C.) somewhere in the middle and I don't find any of those options terribly appealing

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm really intrigued why so many fans completely ignore the 2019 season in which Love struggled in college.

I’m glad you brought that up.
Can you answer for us how many other Offensive players (besides the obvious Jordan Love) on the starting Utah State Offensive Roster returned from 2018:
List their names here:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Once you fill that list in. Then we will explore the Coaching Staff next.

 

[tynimiller]

I’m glad you brought that up.
Can you answer for us how many other Offensive players (besides the obvious Jordan Love) on the starting Utah State Offensive Roster returned from 2018:
List their names here:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Once you fill that list in. Then we will explore the Coaching Staff next.

EXACTLY

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I’m glad you brought that up.
Can you answer for us how many other Offensive players (besides the obvious Jordan Love) on the starting Utah State Offensive Roster returned from 2018:
List their names here:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Once you fill that list in. Then we will explore the Coaching Staff next.

Are you telling me that Love was only able to excel while being surrounded with superior talent in the Mountain West Conference? If that's true he won't perform at a high level in the NFL. Especially considering the lack of talent at pass catchers currently on the Packers roster.

 

[tynimiller]

Are you telling me that Love was only able to excel while being surrounded with superior talent in the Mountain West Conference? If that's true he won't perform at a high level in the NFL. Especially considering the lack of talent at pass catchers currently on the Packers roster.

Just stop.

It is ignorant to jump clear to that level.

Rodgers lost his most elite weapon in 2022 (and MVS) and we had our worst season in MLF era…are you telling me Rodgers could only excel when he had weapons which made him better?

Of course not….yet again neither extreme side of this discussion is right.

It wasn’t just an entirely new roster essentially - it was a new staff too for Love….of course that was going to impact production.

 

[Magooch]

Kind of on this topic but not sure.

Just spitballing here. Does anyone think there is any chance that perhaps GB would agree to eat some of Rodgers' salary in 2023/24 in exchange for a better trade return?

In other words we feel that the year immediately after moving on from Rodgers should be seen as a "rebuild" so we sacrifice a little cap space but end up with a bigger return and pretty favorable situation for 24/25.
The Jets give up a little more assets to have a more favorable situation in the immediate future.

Like I said, just spitballing and haven't looked at the numbers much at all to see if it could be done in a way that would really benefit everyone, but the idea just kinda popped into my head...

 

[weeds]

Truthfully, I think the Jets (if this happens) will demand GB swallow part of the existing deal. Whatever other conditions pop up will be anyone's guess.

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

I feel until Rodgers is paid off financially, (if he comes back or retires) we're screwed.

If he comes back, and some miracle happens, we'll have the same team as we had next year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Just stop.

It is ignorant to jump clear to that level.

It wasn’t just an entirely new roster essentially - it was a new staff too for Love….of course that was going to impact production.

I truly consider Utah State changing their coaching staff as well as having a completely new receiving corps as a lame excuse for Love struggling in 2019. After all, a first round talent should be able to perform at a higher level against the competition in the Mountain West Conference no matter what.

As I have mentioned repeatedly it's smart to take a closer look at his numbers in 2018 as well. While he performed at an elite level against UNLV, New Mexico and San Jose State it's worth mentioning that those teams finished a combined 4-20 in MWC play. He most likely had his best performance against BYU which were a somewhat decent team that year.

His numbers against Power-5 opponents were atrocious though. In two games against Michigan State and LSU he completely 44 of 74 passes (59.5%) for 449 yards, zero TDs and five INTs. That would result in an NFL rating of 48.8.

Once again, I'm not suggesting he will end up being a bust because of it but it's definitely reason for concern. It seems we will find out in a few months if he's capable of performing at a high level in the NFL.

Just spitballing here. Does anyone think there is any chance that perhaps GB would agree to eat some of Rodgers' salary in 2023/24 in exchange for a better trade return?

In other words we feel that the year immediately after moving on from Rodgers should be seen as a "rebuild" so we sacrifice a little cap space but end up with a bigger return and pretty favorable situation for 24/25.
The Jets give up a little more assets to have a more favorable situation in the immediate future.

Like I said, just spitballing and haven't looked at the numbers much at all to see if it could be done in a way that would really benefit everyone, but the idea just kinda popped into my head...

If the Packers trade Rodgers before June 1 they already take an additional cap hit of nearly $9 million for next season. I don't think it would be smart to create enough cap space to pay for a portion of his salary as well.

 

[gopkrs]

Once again, I'm not suggesting he will end up being a bust because of it but it's definitely reason for concern. It seems we will find out in a few months if he's capable of performing at a high level in the NFL.

Yeah Yeah. You want your cake and to eat it too. Obviously. Actually, I don't completely understand the logic of that old saying.