"Realistic" WR Discussions...

[OldSchool101]

"You can not swim for new horizons until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore."

I feel like a warm blanket of inspiration was just wrapped around me...

Ha! If these quotes finds it on OBJ’s locker at Lambeau, visitor or home team idc, regardless of my position..
I’ll smooth buy you both lunch!

 

[Dantés]

Didn't we have as high of a % tied up in our WR corps before with Nelson and Cobb?

You want to make this offense dynamic? Give up our first rounder if need be and trade for OBJ. Of course trades like this will always remain a risk, but there is not another receiver in the league which I would put next to DA to create a duo on which I would bet my livelihood. 14M a season seems like a bargain for pairing him up with Aarod and Tae.

And correct me if I'm wrong in this paragraph, but if he doesn't perform, trading him or cutting him even does not result in a lot of costs for us. Sure, we'd probably lose some draft capital as we won't be able to recoup a first or second rounder, but surely a mid round pick. And there would be no dead cap?

Cut Graham.
Bulaga, Fackrell and Martinez will walk.
Resign Tonyan, Sullivan and Lazard.
Maybe add one more journeyman at ILB, IDL, RT, TE.
Draft a RT, ILB, slot WR, IDL, TE

Start the season with DA, OBJ, Lazard, Slot WR, MVS, Kumerow and potentially ESB.

Only real loss on this list would be Bulaga, but we'd still have 3 studs on the line (more than most teams can say they have) and I'd believe either Adams or OBJ would be open fast enough in order to mitigate that loss. Furthermore, Bulaga had a healthy year by his standards, but seeing resigning Bulaga as much less of a risk as a trade for OBJ seems a flawed assumption to make imo.

They did. They had a lot of money tied up in the offense, generally, and very little in the defense. That's obviously not the tactic that the current front office is taking.

Of course I want this offense to be dynamic, but I believe that continued investment in the offensive line is more important to that effort than adding another expensive wide receiver. If our OT position falls apart, I don't care who they have at wide receiver.

I think the offense would be much better off if they kept Bulaga, signed a modest veteran at receiver, and drafted a dynamic player at the position high in the draft than if they traded their top pick for OBJ and had to subsequently allow their elite RT to walk.

I would point out some relevant examples.

The Rams came into this season with the premier trio of receivers in the league. When their OL was performing in recent seasons, the offense was awesome! But during the second half last season, and to begin this season, the OL took a total nose dive and all that receiver talent didn't matter.

Or how about Odell's current team? Everyone gushed over the talent at the skill positions for the Browns all offseason. None of it has really mattered.

Lastly, if one isn't inclined to resign Bulaga because of age/durability, OK. But in that scenario, you will absolutely have to use your 1st round pick (and probably more, to trade up) to take his replacement. You aren't finding a replacement in free agency that will be anywhere near as good as Bulaga, and even someone serviceable is going to cost more than they can afford after investing 14M more in cap space into a wide receiver.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I just realized that Lazard is going to have to wear a new #.

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[tynimiller]

They did. They had a lot of money tied up in the offense, generally, and very little in the defense. That's obviously not the tactic that the current front office is taking.

Of course I want this offense to be dynamic, but I believe that continued investment in the offensive line is more important to that effort than adding another expensive wide receiver. If our OT position falls apart, I don't care who they have at wide receiver.

I think the offense would be much better off if they kept Bulaga, signed a modest veteran at receiver, and drafted a dynamic player at the position high in the draft than if they traded their top pick for OBJ and had to subsequently allow their elite RT to walk.

I would point out some relevant examples.

The Rams came into this season with the premier trio of receivers in the league. When their OL was performing in recent seasons, the offense was awesome! But during the second half last season, and to begin this season, the OL took a total nose dive and all that receiver talent didn't matter.

Or how about Odell's current team? Everyone gushed over the talent at the skill positions for the Browns all offseason. None of it has really mattered.

Lastly, if one isn't inclined to resign Bulaga because of age/durability, OK. But in that scenario, you will absolutely have to use your 1st round pick (and probably more, to trade up) to take his replacement. You aren't finding a replacement in free agency that will be anywhere near as good as Bulaga, and even someone serviceable is going to cost more than they can afford after investing 14M more in cap space into a wide receiver.

I tend to agree, I'd GLADLY support giving up draft stock this year and next if it means moving UP to ensure we get a top flight WR in the draft, than use up stock for OBJ...now does that mean I utterly think trading for OBJ would be a mistake, no...but my preference lies more in the draft one of the elite (maybe add a cheaper vet).

 

[tynimiller]

I just realized that Lazard is going to have to wear a new #.

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The ONE advantage trading for OBJ has is you instantly shouldn't worry about your WR group, you would have essentially everyone we have now (minus Gmo leaving in FA) and add in EQ...

The real question is the cost and the draft and/or player equity it takes to do. I feel his addition is a surefire way to insure we cut ties with Graham (FINALLY!) and I also feel is just another way to justify letting Martinez get his big money elsewhere. We could target in the draft a ILB, TE and OL...

I truly feel with Gute and Co we are going to see a more gas pedal approach trying to do all we can in the next 2 to 3 years of the Rodgers era ending...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The real question is the cost and the draft and/or player equity it takes to do. I feel his addition is a surefire way to insure we cut ties with Graham (FINALLY!)

I was a Graham supporter, but that didn't work out so well. I absolutely see no reason to keep him around for his final year and definitely think the Packers take the $3.6M cap hit and $8M savings by releasing him at the end of the season.

Now maybe you spread that $8M savings around on a TE and a WR, but that isn't going to buy you much.

I like Corey Linsley, but he will be in the final year of his contract. If they trade or cut him, the Packers save $8.5M. If it means cutting ties with him and Graham to give us better options at WR, I would be all for it.

 

[tynimiller]

I was a Graham supporter, but that didn't work out so well. I absolutely see no reason to keep him around for his final year and definitely think the Packers take the $3.6M cap hit and $8M savings by releasing him at the end of the season.

Now maybe you spread that $8M savings around on a TE and a WR, but that isn't going to buy you much.

I like Corey Linsley, but he will be in the final year of his contract. If they trade or cut him, the Packers save $8.5M. If it means cutting ties with him and Graham to give us better options at WR, I would be all for it.

I think the Linsley issue is more controlled by the Bulaga decision than anything. Me personally I love Linsley BUT prefer resigning Bulaga and cutting him, if someone told me to choose between the two this next year.

 

[elcid]

They did. They had a lot of money tied up in the offense, generally, and very little in the defense. That's obviously not the tactic that the current front office is taking.

Of course I want this offense to be dynamic, but I believe that continued investment in the offensive line is more important to that effort than adding another expensive wide receiver. If our OT position falls apart, I don't care who they have at wide receiver.

I think the offense would be much better off if they kept Bulaga, signed a modest veteran at receiver, and drafted a dynamic player at the position high in the draft than if they traded their top pick for OBJ and had to subsequently allow their elite RT to walk.

I would point out some relevant examples.

The Rams came into this season with the premier trio of receivers in the league. When their OL was performing in recent seasons, the offense was awesome! But during the second half last season, and to begin this season, the OL took a total nose dive and all that receiver talent didn't matter.

Or how about Odell's current team? Everyone gushed over the talent at the skill positions for the Browns all offseason. None of it has really mattered.

Lastly, if one isn't inclined to resign Bulaga because of age/durability, OK. But in that scenario, you will absolutely have to use your 1st round pick (and probably more, to trade up) to take his replacement. You aren't finding a replacement in free agency that will be anywhere near as good as Bulaga, and even someone serviceable is going to cost more than they can afford after investing 14M more in cap space into a wide receiver.

Didn’t mean to imply that you don’t want to restore this offence to its glory days, apologies if I came across like that. I understand the examples you provide, but the Rams didn’t have the QB we have, nor do the Browns. Given our investments in D our resources are indeed scarce, and then I guess its a matter of which you value more: your receiving corps or your online. An investment in OBJ does limit our options at offensive line.

But I feel like I’ve seen enough Arod the past 3 years in which he had strong to excellent lines, just no one to throw to. Almost to the point where I am starting to doubt the extent of Aaron’s greatness, as I feel too little credit was given to the stable of quality receivers he has been throwing to during the most successful periods of his career. Rookies can be great, but we need an immediate contributor next year. And like you mentioned yourself, options on the FA market are either old washed up guys and young risks who will come with a price tag. The only guy I potentially like of that list if Robbie Anderson, but I feel like he too is gonna get a kings ransom somewhere.

In the end, it all depends on OBJ’s price. I’d give up a first in a heartbeat. Tops I’d add a 6th rounder in order to fend off any competition. But I do understand the arguments why people would be against such a move.

 

[elcid]

I think the Linsley issue is more controlled by the Bulaga decision than anything. Me personally I love Linsley BUT prefer resigning Bulaga and cutting him, if someone told me to choose between the two this next year.

Hmm, Im not sure if I would prefer that given the injury proneness of Bulaga vs Linsley. But I am intrigued by the move. It seems easier to hit on an interior lineman later in the draft compared to a tackle.

 

[tynimiller]

Hmm, Im not sure if I would prefer that given the injury proneness of Bulaga vs Linsley. But I am intrigued by the move. It seems easier to hit on an interior lineman later in the draft compared to a tackle.

Yup 100% easier IMO to replace interior vs exterior along the OL.

Also I'd not clean cut Linsley, if he is a cap casualty, the guy is a starting caliber center in the league and despite being in final year a team looking for a future center would be more than happy to ship a late round pick our way...get him a fresh start, get something small in return...be better than cutting.

 

[Dantés]

Didn’t mean to imply that you don’t want to restore this offence to its glory days, apologies if I came across like that. I understand the examples you provide, but the Rams didn’t have the QB we have, nor do the Browns. Given our investments in D our resources are indeed scarce, and then I guess its a matter of which you value more: your receiving corps or your online. An investment in OBJ does limit our options at offensive line.

But I feel like I’ve seen enough Arod the past 3 years in which he had strong to excellent lines, just no one to throw to. Almost to the point where I am starting to doubt the extent of Aaron’s greatness, as I feel too little credit was given to the stable of quality receivers he has been throwing to during the most successful periods of his career. Rookies can be great, but we need an immediate contributor next year. And like you mentioned yourself, options on the FA market are either old washed up guys and young risks who will come with a price tag. The only guy I potentially like of that list if Robbie Anderson, but I feel like he too is gonna get a kings ransom somewhere.

In the end, it all depends on OBJ’s price. I’d give up a first in a heartbeat. Tops I’d add a 6th rounder in order to fend off any competition. But I do understand the arguments why people would be against such a move.

No, I didn't take it that way. I think the bold is the distillation of the debate, and I definitely think an offensive line is major important to the overall function of an offense. The weapons need to improve, no doubt. But it's my opinion that if they improve and the OL erodes, the offense is going to nose dive.

To your comment that the Rams and Browns don't have the QB's we have-- that's right. Our QB holds the ball longer than either of them. And thus needs better protection (or to break that bad habit).

I do believe that a dearth of talent at WR (and TE) is limiting the offense, but I think the much bigger problem is a general inconsistency in operating the offense. And the offense has failed to operate most dramatically (@SF and @LAC) when the offensive line has utterly failed to give it a chance.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

Dont you dare let LambeauLombardi hear you say that! Your in for a good degrading he’s an absolute expert on Parker. He might think you’re related or something!

Parker is playing far and away the best football of his career, Sanders has had a few off games with 49ers but still has been great in moments so I'd much rather have him around, but Sanu hasn't been very good. MVS has STUNK since I posted that. Has to be the dumbest post I've had. I'll hand you the clear win for that take.

As shocked I am of Parker on this bad team, I'm even more shocked with how bad MVS has looked for us of late. He had 416 yards and 2 TDS in the first 7 games (at the time I posted that comment). 11 yards on 2 catches with 0 TD in the next 6 games. I can't explain it. He still may be injured.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hence I used the word some . Losing 15M dollars in cap space for one year and trading a first rounder for say a 3rd or fourth seems like an ok risk for me if we stand to gain a potential hall of famer in his prime, but to each their own I suppose.

Teams don't give up any draft capital for a player that hasn't worked with three clubs in a short period of time though.

Inform him that:

#1 He shouldn't be expected to be the star or the go to guy per se, just because he is OBJ. We have Arod, we have Davante, we have AJ. He is only one piece of the puzzle to creating a lights out offense. A potential large one admittedly, but he is not the whole thing.
#2 He would be put in a position where winning is way more likely than was with his previous franchises, but also, not a given.
#3 From here on out its football only. Big city life is not here in GB. He is to fully commit to football during the (pre)seasons and let go of the distractions.
#4 And lastly, if he acknowledges these simple facts and hence strives to give his best, the sky is the limit for him and the Packers.

While OBJ might agree to that during the offseason I highly doubt he would live by it once he's not the focal point of the offense.

Lastly, if one isn't inclined to resign Bulaga because of age/durability, OK. But in that scenario, you will absolutely have to use your 1st round pick (and probably more, to trade up) to take his replacement.

The Packers were able to get by with a fourth round rookie starting at left tackle some years ago. While they definitely would have to address right tackle if they decide to let Bulaga walk it wouldn't be imperative to spend a first rounder on the position.

I feel his addition is a surefire way to insure we cut ties with Graham (FINALLY!) and I also feel is just another way to justify letting Martinez get his big money elsewhere.

There's no way Graham will be back next season. The Packers will gladly take the $8 million in cap savings by releasing him.

Parker is playing far and away the best football of his career, Sanders has had a few off games with 49ers but still has been great in moments so I'd much rather have him around, but Sanu hasn't been very good.

Parker and Sanders would have been an upgrade over the receivers currently behind Adams on the depth chart but neither of them should be one the Packers rely on to improve the passing offense next year.

 

[elcid]

Parker is playing far and away the best football of his career, Sanders has had a few off games with 49ers but still has been great in moments so I'd much rather have him around, but Sanu hasn't been very good. MVS has STUNK since I posted that. Has to be the dumbest post I've had. I'll hand you the clear win for that take.

As shocked I am of Parker on this bad team, I'm even more shocked with how bad MVS has looked for us of late. He had 416 yards and 2 TDS in the first 7 games (at the time I posted that comment). 11 yards on 2 catches with 0 TD in the next 6 games. I can't explain it. He still may be injured.

It's because he really isn't that good. Being a WR is all about consistency, even more so than for other positions I'd say. There is no reason to believe he will be better than an adequate #3 option at best. Like posters mentioned above, the FA market is looking bare and we will NEED to hit on a WR in the draft.

 

[RepStar15]

Realistically, the packers cannot afford a WR that will make a difference. They need to use their first round pick on a WR. Period.

Preferably, it will be the fastest WR in the draft that can be placed in the slot. Devonta Smith, Henry Ruggs and Jalen Reagor come to mind.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Realistically, the packers cannot afford a WR that will make a difference. They need to use their first round pick on a WR. Period.

The Packers could use the $8 million of cap space saved by releasing Graham on either a receiver or tight end.

 

[gbgary]

being in win-now mode if this obj thing had happened before the trade deadline i think they may have made a move for him. with their current, and future, cap situation though i don't see them making a move for him. nah, i think they've seen the near future, analyzed cap and performance data, come to some realizations, and decided there's no reason to go nuts. they'll stick with the draft, the odd free agent hole plug, build for the future, and keep their fingers crossed to catch lightning in a bottle.

 

[Dantés]

The Packers were able to get by with a fourth round rookie starting at left tackle some years ago. While they definitely would have to address right tackle if they decide to let Bulaga walk it wouldn't be imperative to spend a first rounder on the position.

We've talked about this before, so I don't think we need to rehash the whole thing. But suffice it to say, I think that if the Packers tried to replace Bulaga with a rookie 4th round pick, the most likely outcome would be a disaster.

 

[swhitset]

We've talked about this before, so I don't think we need to rehash the whole thing. But suffice it to say, I think that if the Packers tried to replace Bulaga with a rookie 4th round pick, the most likely outcome would be a disaster.

That can pretty much be an axiom for any position. There are obviously exceptions of great players coming out of the fourth round and later.... but relying on it is betting on the long shot to pay your mortgage.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That can pretty much be an axiom for any position. There are obviously exceptions of great players coming out of the fourth round and later.... but relying on it is betting on the long shot to pay your mortgage.

Agreed. Now there are positions where its more likely that you can get by with a Rookie, but in order (on offense), the positions I would no want to fully rely on a rookie:

• QB
• LT
• RT
• WR
• TE
• C
• G
• RB

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

I just realized that Lazard is going to have to wear a new #.

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Oh God no way. As talented as he is I think he`d be another Bennett. We don`t need his crap.

 

[OldSchool101]

Parker is playing far and away the best football of his career, Sanders has had a few off games with 49ers but still has been great in moments so I'd much rather have him around, but Sanu hasn't been very good. MVS has STUNK since I posted that. Has to be the dumbest post I've had. I'll hand you the clear win for that take.

As shocked I am of Parker on this bad team, I'm even more shocked with how bad MVS has looked for us of late. He had 416 yards and 2 TDS in the first 7 games (at the time I posted that comment). 11 yards on 2 catches with 0 TD in the next 6 games. I can't explain it. He still may be injured.

I’m just busting your chops, but it’s a good example of how quickly things change. I think the pairing of both Devante's could’ve given us a better chance to get over the hump without mortgaging our future. This Offense seems to be struggling to stay consistent, we’re likely just a player or two away from the Offense avoiding those low trough games. We’re not necessarily going to Crest every game either, but we desperately need an injection of talent at WR. We saw what a difference new veteran help can do at Punt return, it’s not so far fetched we need to replicate that at WR.

We walked Cobb, but never really had an adequate answer as far as a veteran presence. I’m still not entirely sure we do. The closest thing we’ve got for the slot is Ryan Grant, I’m baffled why he’s come aboard but then went MIA.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

It's because he really isn't that good. Being a WR is all about consistency, even more so than for other positions I'd say. There is no reason to believe he will be better than an adequate #3 option at best. Like posters mentioned above, the FA market is looking bare and we will NEED to hit on a WR in the draft.

You definitely might be right. Just assumed Rodgers with just about any receiver that starts for us will progress at the very least some, NOT regress like MVS has. It may not be all to blame on MVS either, some blame can be passed on AR.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We walked Cobb, but never really had an adequate answer as far as a veteran presence. I’m still not entirely sure we do.

Agree with your whole post and will add to it, we also lost Jordy. So that was two second round, Pro Bowl Caliber WR's that you haven't found comparable replacements for. I will say it again, I like the "potential" of Lazard, MVS and ESB but potential isn't really getting the job done. I also might like the potential of a 1st or 2nd round rookie, but again, until they start playing like top 30 WR's in the NFL, all we have is Davante.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

DaVante Parker just got a 4 year, $40M extension from the Dolphins with $21.5M guaranteed.

Looks like outside of OBJ we'll be only finding someone in the Draft.