"Realistic" WR Discussions...

[Pokerbrat2000]

...Based on importance of position I'd rather Gute spend at ILB and WR than to pay top dollar for another TE FA....There does not appear to be a bargain there for us to sign.

I have heard other posters say the same thing about WR and ILB. I get it, Free Agency is a bit scary due to the high cost and the fact that it doesn't always pay off. However, draft choices are probably a bigger crap shoot when it comes to cashing in on them and producing a quality starter.

When the season ends, Gute and the coaches will have to sit down and take a good look at what positions are in a "absolutely must fix now" situation, much like they did with OLB and S last season. Obviously, what current Packers are resigned will be a part of that. Then my guess is their first swing at fixing it will be in Free Agency, followed by the draft.

ILB is actually going to be one of the most interesting positions to watch what the Packers do. First, they have to decide what they will do with Blake Martinez. If they do what most of us think that they should do, not resign him, then ILB pretty much goes to the top of the "absolutely must fix now" positions.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think I personally see it as pressing as you but likewise I wouldn't be mad to see we sign someone, just pray it isn't a Graham type mistake fiscally if I do LOL

If the Packers decide to release Graham (which is a foregone conclusion in my opinion) their tight ends under contract will have a combined 12 career receptions.

The position is definitely a huge need entering next offseason.

They've drafted what? 6 WRs in the last 3 years and minus EQ because of the lack of starts and field time, all the others haven't worked out I feel it is safe to say.

The Packers have drafted five wide receivers in the last three years but none of them was selecting in the first three rounds. Gutekunst should definitely address the position early in the 2020 draft.

It's not that I'm optimistic, it's more that the salary cap exists. Based on importance of position I'd rather Gute spend at ILB and WR than to pay top dollar for another TE FA.

It takes rookies more time to have an impact at tight ends than at receiver or inside linebacker. Therefore I would prefer the Packers to address the position in free agency.

 

[Pugger]

In my opinion there's absolutely no way Graham will be back next season. The Packers need a veteran to replace him though.

What veteran TEs can Gute target this offseason?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What veteran TEs can Gute target this offseason?

It's too early to talk about it as there's no way of knowing who might be available in March.

With that being said it's possible there's not a great fit available for the Packers at tight end in free agency.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's too early to talk about it as there's no way of knowing who might be available in March.

Yet, you told me earlier today:

I'm would be in favor of signing a veteran wide receiver next offseason as well but I'm not convinced there's a free agent available who would be a good fit for the Packers at a reasonable price.

Just busting your chops, but glad to see that you realize that all this early talk about Free Agents might be a bit premature.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yet, you told me earlier today:

Just busting your chops, but glad to see that you realize that all this early talk about Free Agents might be a bit premature.

Damnit, I was convinced you were already asleep and I could slip that comment past you

 

[GreenNGold_81]

It takes rookies more time to have an impact at tight ends than at receiver or inside linebacker. Therefore I would prefer the Packers to address the position in free agency.

Luckily enough Tonyan will be in his third year with our team. A cheap FA or trade (Brate, like who I wanted before this season) would be an option for depth, but I think the answer to our TE is on the roster right now (Tonyan).

 

[Dantés]

What veteran TEs can Gute target this offseason?

Austin Hooper and Hunter Henry are high profile names who probably won't make it to market.

Jack Doyle would be a good option.

 

[tynimiller]

Austin Hooper and Hunter Henry are high profile names who probably won't make it to market.

Jack Doyle would be a good option.

Doyle is the only one that has caught my eye that actually could present a decent receiving option...I'd be 100% fine with resigning Lewis, if Doyle is affordable grab him and roll with Tonyan and Stern....and maybe keep eye out for a 3rd day TE that fell farther than we have listed on our draft board.

 

[tynimiller]

Wait.....Doyle is off the books "On December 6, 2019, Doyle signed a three-year, $21 million contract extension with the Colts through the 2022 season."

 

[milani]

What veteran TEs can Gute target this offseason?

Great question. And exactly what we must address. It is hard to run a passing game with a TE that can only block and never stretch the field. Jerrod Cook was better than what we have now.

 

[tynimiller]

Great question. And exactly what we must address. It is hard to run a passing game with a TE that can only block and never stretch the field. Jerrod Cook was better than what we have now.

Choosing Graham over Cook, if it truly boils down to that was a misstep this organization that hovers over us like a storm cloud IMO.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Choosing Graham over Cook, if it truly boils down to that was a misstep this organization that hovers over us like a storm cloud IMO.

More of a hind site cloud IMO. More importantly, the Packers did not choose Graham over Cook, they chose Mo Bennett (and Lance Kendricks) over Cook. Which at the time seemed like an upgrade. Cook signed with the Raiders in 2017. The Packers signed Graham in 2018 when Mo Bennett didn't work out in 2017.

 

[tynimiller]

More of a hind site cloud IMO. More importantly, the Packers did not choose Graham over Cook, they chose Mo Bennett (and Lance Kendricks) over Cook. Which at the time seemed like an upgrade. Cook signed with the Raiders in 2017. The Packers signed Graham in 2018 when Mo Bennett didn't work out in 2017.

Oh that's correct, apologies. Man the Mo Bennett debacle, forgot about that crap show...I honestly thought Lance was going to pan out more.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Oh that's correct, apologies. Man the Mo Bennett debacle, forgot about that crap show...I honestly thought Lance was going to pan out more.

What Cook did though was "set the Packers up for" reminding them just how important the TE can be in the Packer offense, something they hadn't had since Finley. At the time, the decision to let Cook go seemed like a prudent move based on what he wanted. TT signing Bennett and Kendricks also appeared to many people as a big upgrade at TE. The following year, Graham was viewed as the hands down best TE available in Free Agency.

Unfortunately, all 3 of those moves didn't work out well for the Packers, but really only when you view them using hind site. Had Cook gotten injured or didn't play up to his new contract, we probably aren't talking about him at all.

Moving forward, the injury to Jace Sternberger was a bigger blow than just not having him available to contribute. What hurts is the fact that he lost valuable playing time and in the process, the Packers don't really know if he is a future starter in the NFL. So most likely, the Packers will go into the off season, wanting and most likely needing to cut Graham, but are sitting with 2 TE's (JS and Tonyan) that are big time question marks. Couple that with a thin and questionable WR corp and its a problem.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Packers should sign a proven Vet WR or a proven Vet TE for 2020 and then use relatively high picks on either or both positions (dependent on what they do in Free agency). Expecting to improve both of those positions for 2020 solely through development and the draft, is wishful thinking at best.

 

[tynimiller]

Yup, we will be adding at least one FA in the WR or TE position for sure.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm would be in favor of signing a veteran wide receiver next offseason as well but I'm not convinced there's a free agent available who would be a good fit for the Packers at a reasonable price.

That’s the million dollar question at WR.
GB needs to find a WR who isn’t part of a short term recipe and that may involve spending a draft pick on one. Personally, I’m hitting WR with either a 2020 day1 or day2 selection and putting them on the fast track to long term success.
As far as a more proven veteran option, there always seems to be a group of those WR (similar to Cobb) that teams are willing to walk away from in hopes of a team looking for the next long term solution above.

As we’ve learned the hard way in 2019, it’s probably not the best idea to walk away from multiple modest salaried veterans (Cobb/Montgomery etc..) unless we have a better grip on who is projected to improve the hole left at said position. We’ve walked 3 veteran day1 and 2 draft picks at WR in 2018-2019 without one proven replacement prospect for any of them.

I’d get after 1 FA + 1 earlier draft selection, both.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That’s the million dollar question at WR.
GB needs to find a WR who isn’t part of a short term recipe and that may involve spending a draft pick on one. Personally, I’m hitting WR with either a 2020 day1 or day2 selection and putting them on the fast track to long term success.
As far as a more proven veteran option, there always seems to be a group of those WR (similar to Cobb) that teams are willing to walk away from in hopes of a team looking for the next long term solution above.

As we’ve learned the hard way in 2019, it’s probably not the best idea to walk away from multiple modest salaried veterans (Cobb/Montgomery etc..) unless we have a better grip on who is projected to improve the hole left at said position. We’ve walked 3 veteran day1 and 2 draft picks at WR in 2018-2019 without one proven replacement prospect for any of them.

More like the $10-20M Question

Getting rid of Montgomery was a no brainer, he wasn't much of a WR and it turns out he wasn't much of a RB either. We could debate on whether Cobb or Jordy should have been retained for another year, but the real mistake was simply not replacing them with veterans or investing a high draft pick in the last 5 drafts on a WR. TT and Gute have been so focused on fixing the defense, that they basically neglected restocking on offensive weapons. Obviously the defense needed fixing, but several bad draft picks explains why the Packers found themselves short of talent on both the offense and defense over the last few years.

Gute took a stab at the WR position in the 2018 draft by using a 4th, 5th and 6th, but so far the results of that are still unknown.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Luckily enough Tonyan will be in his third year with our team. A cheap FA or trade (Brate, like who I wanted before this season) would be an option for depth, but I think the answer to our TE is on the roster right now (Tonyan).

I would be excited about Tonyan developing into a decent tight end but the Packers should definitely not rely on that happening next season.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

So after the Cowboys loss, it's looking like Amari Cooper will be a Free Agent. His price has to go WAY down.

More on this here: https://sports.yahoo.com/the-nfl-ho...gtVa84f93Y4gtQj_CXyTyBJNfyy9ndJM&guccounter=1


Now I never wanted to pay Cooper the big money to begin with. But maybe Cooper can find a home as a decent No.2 option. His "streakiness" tells the league he's not a No. 1 option. If he can work on his drops, we could have a dangerous WR Corps and use the Draft to address the DL and OL.

 

[tynimiller]

Not buying he'll be "cheap", but not talking truly cheap...I just think someone is gonna pay him #1 money on their team. If he truly does get into that expensive but worth it affordable I'm not saying I'd be totally against it, just sense gonna take vastly more money then this team can fiscally handle right now.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Not buying he'll be "cheap", but not talking truly cheap...I just think someone is gonna pay him #1 money on their team. If he truly does get into that expensive but worth it affordable I'm not saying I'd be totally against it, just sense gonna take vastly more money then this team can fiscally handle right now.

I can see a team like the Pats paying him top dollar if they think Brady is going to keep playing.

 

[tynimiller]

I can see a team like the Pats paying him top dollar if they think Brady is going to keep playing.

I kinda see them sweet talking AJ Green into coming there for cheaper than he'd get elsewhere....

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So after the Cowboys loss, it's looking like Amari Cooper will be a Free Agent. His price has to go WAY down.

Now I never wanted to pay Cooper the big money to begin with. But maybe Cooper can find a home as a decent No.2 option. His "streakiness" tells the league he's not a No. 1 option. If he can work on his drops. We could have a dangerous WR Corps and use the Draft to address the DL and OL.

I read this and stopped reading. If there is any truth to it, the Packers won't be able to afford or justify paying Cooper that kind of money.

"He’s expected to meet or surpass the $96.25 million contract inked by Saints WR Michael Thomas at the onset of training camp. It’s possible he also eclipses, in terms of annual salary, the three-year, $66 million deal that Atlanta’s Julio Jones received in September."

 

[Mondio]

I think Thomas is a guy you can give that money too, I do NOT think Cooper is.