"Realistic" WR Discussions...

[Dantés]

I'm really skeptical of Parker when he's not in a YOLO Fitzpatrick offense.

 

[melvin dangerr]

Interesting.

Skip Bayless says Odell Beckham has privately suggested he’d like to play in Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers. OBJ did just sign a huge extension and the Browns just traded for him, but it would cost CLE less than $3M in dead cap to deal him again.

Besides the cost to obtain him from Cleveland (1st or 2nd round) would he be worth paying $15M/year for 4 years? He just turned 27 and besides some of his shenanigans on the field, if you keep him happy and #12 might be able to do that, he and Davante could pose quite a threat.

He would be worth the risk but Arod may not survive that long, was hoping a deal could be worked out with Cleveland for a draft pick and maybe a trade MVS or Jeronimo and throw in a Dback, just wishing here..

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Skip Bayless says Odell Beckham has privately suggested he’d like to play in Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers. OBJ did just sign a huge extension and the Browns just traded for him, but it would cost CLE less than $3M in dead cap to deal him again.

Besides the cost to obtain him from Cleveland (1st or 2nd round) would he be worth paying $15M/year for 4 years? He just turned 27 and besides some of his shenanigans on the field, if you keep him happy and #12 might be able to do that, he and Davante could pose quite a threat.

OBJ is definitely an elite talent but with his off the field antics the Packers should rather pass on him for $14 million a season going forward, especially considering the Packers would have to give up significant draft capital to acquire him as well. I'm with other posters that the wide receiver position should be addressed in a different way.

FYI the Browns could trade or release OBJ without any dead money counting against their cap.

Not to mention you’d get players still in their prime and ones that may be more team oriented.

OBJ just turned 27 years old, he's definitely still in his prime.

What's more realistic is Davante Parker. I was a naysayer before, but he would be a realistic addition to replace Kumerow and Allison. If the Dolphins are looking to rebuild from the bottom up, I'd start with a 4th this year and a 4th next year.

In addition to what Dantes posted I believe the Dolphins are done getting rid of veteran players.

 

[Dantés]

The upcoming free agent class of veteran wide receivers is not impressive.

Most of the really talented guys are old: A.J. Green (32), Larry Fitzgerald (37), Emmanuel Sanders (33), Demaryius Thomas (32)

Most of the younger players would be high risk propositions, if not in terms of salary then at least in terms of probability of pay off: Devin Funchess, Robbie Anderson, Philip Dorsett, Nelson Agholor, Josh Gordon.

The only premier name slated to make it is Amari Cooper. I don't think he will actually get out of Dallas. Even if he did, he's inconsistent enough that I would be scared to commit a lot of guaranteed money to him. And the Packers need to find complimentary skillsets, not necessarily a "#1."

The only veteran who is somewhat intriguing to me as a depth piece is Rashard Higgins, who I think has been underutilized in Cleveland. Otherwise, I'm basically not enthused.

This upcoming draft class of wide receivers is slated to be historically epic. There is a ton of talent, of all shapes, sizes, and skill sets.

Save the money for something else and draft your wide receiver.

 

[tynimiller]

Most of the younger players would be high risk propositions, if not in terms of salary then at least in terms of probability of pay off: Devin Funchess, Robbie Anderson, Philip Dorsett, Nelson Agholor, Josh Gordon.

Of these guys I'd personally put feelers out on Agholor and Gordon. I feel both at the proper price could and would greatly assist. I feel Gordon up here might have a slightly easier time staying clean....I'd put a lot of incentive driven items in his contract LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Save the money for something else and draft your wide receiver.

That strategy assumes that you hit on a WR in the draft, as well as your current group improves. While I do agree that the Packers definitely have to spend a high draft pick on a WR, I also think they should pay medium range money for a Vet WR to compliment Adams, until that Rookie is actually ready to contribute.

Going into 2020 with only the following WR's would be a mistake IMO:

1. Adams
2. MVS
3. Lazzard
4. Rookie
5. EQ
6. Kumerow

 

[Dantés]

That strategy assumes that you hit on a WR in the draft, as well as your current group improves. While I do agree that the Packers definitely have to spend a high draft pick on a WR, I also think they should pay medium range money for a Vet WR to compliment Adams, until that Rookie is actually ready to contribute.

Going into 2020 with only the following WR's would be a mistake IMO:

1. Adams
2. MVS
3. Lazzard
4. Rookie
5. EQ
6. Kumerow

So who would you propose?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So who would you propose?

I will let you know as we get closer to Free Agency and we actually know who is out there. I also wouldn't be opposed to trading for a WR.

So I would ask you, what WR would your propose to take in the draft to address the need?

Hard not to notice that once you remove Adams, the cupboard is pretty bare in Green Bay in the way of quality WR's. I realize we all hope that MVS, Lazard and EQ develop into decent players, but until they do, a rookie alone, is probably not going to fix much for 2020.

 

[Dantés]

I will let you know as we get closer to Free Agency and we actually know who is out there. I also wouldn't be opposed to trading for a WR.

So I would ask you, what WR would your propose to take in the draft to address the need?

Hard not to notice that once you remove Adams, the cupboard is pretty bare in Green Bay in the way of quality WR's. I realize we all hope that MVS, Lazard and EQ develop into decent players, but until they do, a rookie alone, is probably not going to fix much for 2020.

Well likewise, we're a ways out. Jalen Reagor and Brandon Aiyuk appear to be players with the speed and YAC ability that the offense has been lacking.

 

[OldSchool101]

What's more realistic is Davante Parker. I was a naysayer before, but he would be a realistic addition to replace Kumerow and Allison. If the Dolphins are looking to rebuild from the bottom up, I'd start with a 4th this year and a 4th next year.

People said the same crap about Darrius Heyward Bey and Kevin White. Parker has been all potential but little production. If you want an overrated injury prone receiver who people think he's good because he was drafted high, then he's your guy. 13 catches in 5 games this year. What a stud! And spare me on the 'he's had no qb' rebuttal. He's never hit 60 catches in 4 years with average qb play in Tannehill/Cutler.

Just because it's a different face doesn't mean he'll make the offense better. I'm for a trade/upgrade but DeVante is all hype.

You have got to be a relative or close friend of DaVante Parker.

To answer your question, there are no good options if you are looking for a #2 receiver.

In my opinion it's moronic to trade a first or even second day pick for Parker, Sanu, or Sanders considering it is entirely possible MVS is better than those 3 in this offense. Those 3 are just ok players

Dont you dare let LambeauLombardi hear you say that! Your in for a good degrading he’s an absolute expert on Parker. He might think you’re related or something!

 

[XPack]

Looks like we are top preferred destination for OBJ...according to Bayless, so feel free to treat this as crap.

 

[melvin dangerr]

If OBJ wants out of Cleveland and GB and Rodgers are looking good to him it wouldn’t hurt the Packers to talk to him and if he can negotiate a deal, that both sides will be happy with he is still fast very talented with him and Devonte lining up on both sides we would have some serious WR threats, put another Tight end, and Arod would, have a field day imao

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Of these guys I'd personally put feelers out on Agholor and Gordon. I feel both at the proper price could and would greatly assist. I feel Gordon up here might have a slightly easier time staying clean....I'd put a lot of incentive driven items in his contract LOL

I don't think the Packers have any interest in signing Gordon. While I would like the team to add a veteran receiver as well Dantés correctly pointed out that there aren't a ton of intriguing options available in free agency.

It might be smarter to sign a tight end next offseason and rely on the draft to improve the talent level at WR.

If OBJ wants out of Cleveland and GB and Rodgers are looking good to him it wouldn’t hurt the Packers to talk to him and if he can negotiate a deal, that both sides will be happy with he is still fast very talented with him and Devonte lining up on both sides we would have some serious WR threats, put another Tight end, and Arod would, have a field day imao

The Browns would have to release OBJ for him to negotiate a new deal with another team. Otherwise he's under contract for another four years at $14 million per season.

 

[elcid]

I don’t like putting my eggs in one basket, especially a basket that has holes. Id rather spread my resources across several positions of need. That 15M saved and a day 1 pick etc.. can go a long ways in putting together a supporting cast for Aaron.
Not to mention you’d get players still in their prime and ones that may be more team oriented.

Keyword is CAN, these players are probably as likely to flop as OBJ, if not more likely. I understand that say 3 players vs one OBJ is way more risky on the OBJ part, but still, if OBJ only produces 70% of his ability, our pass offense is saved. And Arod will be as efficient as he possible can be in the last best years of his career. We need WR production NOW, not after next season or the season after. If we can get back to scoring 25+ points every game, together with this D (even minus martinez) we'd be unstoppable. OBJ presents our best bet to do that to me.

I wouldn't be in favor of it.

Beckham is a diva, and that's annoying, but really not the reason I would prefer to pass.

If they traded for him, then you'd have roughly 15% of the cap tied up in two wide receivers. I don't think that's the way you build a successful roster.

They need to add talent at wide receiver for sure, but I think that a 1st or 2nd round pick on a guy who will count, at most, 2.5M next year plus spending the rest of that money on keeping Bulaga or finding a real solution next to Clark, etc. would be a more effective allocation of resources.

Didn't we have as high of a % tied up in our WR corps before with Nelson and Cobb?


You want to make this offense dynamic? Give up our first rounder if need be and trade for OBJ. Of course trades like this will always remain a risk, but there is not another receiver in the league which I would put next to DA to create a duo on which I would bet my livelihood. 14M a season seems like a bargain for pairing him up with Aarod and Tae.

And correct me if I'm wrong in this paragraph, but if he doesn't perform, trading him or cutting him even does not result in a lot of costs for us. Sure, we'd probably lose some draft capital as we won't be able to recoup a first or second rounder, but surely a mid round pick. And there would be no dead cap?

Cut Graham.
Bulaga, Fackrell and Martinez will walk.
Resign Tonyan, Sullivan and Lazard.
Maybe add one more journeyman at ILB, IDL, RT, TE.
Draft a RT, ILB, slot WR, IDL, TE

Start the season with DA, OBJ, Lazard, Slot WR, MVS, Kumerow and potentially ESB.

Only real loss on this list would be Bulaga, but we'd still have 3 studs on the line (more than most teams can say they have) and I'd believe either Adams or OBJ would be open fast enough in order to mitigate that loss. Furthermore, Bulaga had a healthy year by his standards, but seeing resigning Bulaga as much less of a risk as a trade for OBJ seems a flawed assumption to make imo.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Keyword is CAN, these players are probably as likely to flop as OBJ, if not more likely. I understand that say 3 players vs one OBJ is way more risky on the OBJ part, but still, if OBJ only produces 70% of his ability, are pass offense is saved. And Arod will be as efficient as he possible can be in the last best years of his career. We need WR production NOW, not after next season or the season after.

You want to make this offense dynamic? Give up our first rounder if need be and trade for OBJ. Of course trades like this will always remain a risk, but there is not another receiver in the league which I would put next to DA to create a duo on which I would bet my livelihood. 14M a season seems like a bargain for pairing him up with Aarod and Tae.

And correct me if I'm wrong in this paragraph, but if he doesn't perform, trading him or cutting him even does not result in a lot of costs for us. Sure, we'd probably lose some draft capital as we won't be able to trade him again for a first or second rounder, but I would say we can recoup a third. And there would be no dead cap?

There's no doubt OBJ is a uniquely talented receiver but he hasn't transformed the Browns passing offense into a juggernaut. While Rodgers is definitely a huge upgrade over Mayfield the move would be risky and might backfire as well. The problem if that happens is that the team won't have some draft picks and at least $14 million in cap space to make up for it.

 

[elcid]

There's no doubt OBJ is a uniquely talented receiver but he hasn't transformed the Browns passing offense into a juggernaut. While Rodgers is definitely a huge upgrade over Mayfield the move would be risky and might backfire as well. The problem if that happens is that the team won't have some draft picks and at least $14 million in cap space to make up for it.

Apart from that Mayfield is not Rodgers, The Browns don't have an Oline as we have either, even without Bulaga. And sure, there is a lot of risk in this proposition, but to completely disregard it because of said risk is ridiculous. The risk-reward here is as favourable as it gets in the NFL. As I said, we would most probably be able to recoup some draft capital if we decided to move on with no dead cap as his signing bonus is already fully paid (again, correct me if I am wrong).

We need WR production from the get go in 2020 in order to get to a SB in what's left of Rodgers's career, and like William Faulkner described it eloquently

"You can not swim for new horizons until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore."

And yes, I just googled this quote.

 

[Mondio]

Go figure OBJ wanted a new team, he got a new team and a new contract. Now he wants a new team again.

 

[tynimiller]

"You can not swim for new horizons until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore."

I feel like a warm blanket of inspiration was just wrapped around me...

 

[elcid]

Go figure OBJ wanted a new team, he got a new team and a new contract. Now he wants a new team again.

I'm pretty sure that OBJ did not request a trade from the Giants, and furthermore, he is still playing on the contract he signed with the Giants.

 

[Mondio]

that's right, they signed him then traded him. I thought Cleveland gave him the extension. Publicly he didn't request a trade, but he made some remarks that pointed to him not being there. It's my personal feeling he wanted out because of manning and not winning.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm still ticked we didn't pick up Sanu....grinds my gears constantly....I still argue he was the BEST fit guy out there that could have been had.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Apart from that Mayfield is not Rodgers, The Browns don't have an Oline as we have either, even without Bulaga. And sure, there is a lot of risk in this proposition, but to completely disregard it because of said risk is ridiculous. The risk-reward here is as favourable as it gets in the NFL. As I said, we would most probably be able to recoup some draft capital if we decided to move on with no dead cap as his signing bonus is already fully paid (again, correct me if I am wrong).

I don't completely disregard the idea of trading for OBJ but in my opinion the risk is too big for the Packers to realistically consider it.

As a side note, while you're correct about his contract not carrying any dead money there's no way the team wouldn't be able to recoup the draft capital necessary to acquire him if he doesn't work out in Green Bay.

 

[elcid]

As a side note, while you're correct about his contract not carrying any dead money there's no way the team wouldn't be able to recoup the draft capital necessary to acquire him if he doesn't work out in Green Bay.

Hence I used the word some . Losing 15M dollars in cap space for one year and trading a first rounder for say a 3rd or fourth seems like an ok risk for me if we stand to gain a potential hall of famer in his prime, but to each their own I suppose.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I would be a bit on the fence with an OBJ trade, but not for the reason of giving up a first round pick or really the $15M/year. First round picks are a gamble and often don't pay off, I think the odds are higher that OBJ pays more dividends in 4 years than a #25ish pick. At $15M/year he is $7M less than Julio Jones and $1M more than the Bears pay Allen Robinson. In my opinion, probably a bargain for what you could potentially be getting. Also, with the Giants and Browns being kind enough to pay him all his guarantees, there would be no dead cap hit if for some reason he didn't work out. The Packers have Davante Adams at WR and that is about it. Expecting to improve that with a rookie next year, I wouldn't bank on it.

OBJ. who just turned 27 in Nov. has a lot of good football ahead of him. So given all of the above, my only reservation with trading for him would be "does he fit into the Packer organization and will he and Davante be able to share the field". Is OBJ a guy that would thrive in Green Bay or need more of a spot light? I haven't a clue.

 

[elcid]

I would be a bit on the fence with an OBJ trade, but not for the reason of giving up a first round pick or really the $15M/year. First round picks are a gamble and often don't pay off, I think the odds are higher that OBJ pays more dividends in 4 years than a #25ish pick. At $15M/year he is $7M less than Julio Jones and $1M more than the Bears pay Allen Robinson. In my opinion, probably a bargain for what you could potentially be getting. Also, with the Giants and Browns being kind enough to pay him all his guarantees, there would be no dead cap hit if for some reason he didn't work out. The Packers have Davante Adams at WR and that is about it. Expecting to improve that with a rookie next year, I wouldn't bank on it.

Jones, who just turned 27 in Nov. has a lot of good football ahead of him. So given all of the above, my only reservation with trading for him would be "does he fit into the Packer organization and will he and Davante be able to share the field". Is OBJ a guy that would thrive in Green Bay or need more of a spot light? I haven't a clue.

Completely agree. I've seen enough late first rounders wasted. Granted, Gute seems to be doing better than Ted did, but even in the best case scenario you most likely will get a guy who will really contribute in a year or two from now. Given our time constraint, it is not going to be enough.

If it is true that OBJ would want to play with Rodgers this already supports the case of trading for him. On the diva part, I feel that MLF can work well with a guy like OBJ. But I would agree that in order for us to pull the trigger on such a huge trade, we would have to get certain assurances from him prior to the trade. Inform him that:

#1 He shouldn't be expected to be the star or the go to guy per se, just because he is OBJ. We have Arod, we have Davante, we have AJ. He is only one piece of the puzzle to creating a lights out offense. A potential large one admittedly, but he is not the whole thing.
#2 He would be put in a position where winning is way more likely than was with his previous franchises, but also, not a given.
#3 From here on out its football only. Big city life is not here in GB. He is to fully commit to football during the (pre)seasons and let go of the distractions.
#4 And lastly, if he acknowledges these simple facts and hence strives to give his best, the sky is the limit for him and the Packers.