Preseason 2 Washington Redskins Studs/Duds

[JLW_51]

I think Janis has done enough to prove that he should be on the 53 man roster, http://lastwordonprofootball.com/2017/08/21/jeff-janis-packers-53-man-roster/

 

[OldSchool101]

I also thought we improved in general.

I have two concerns so far.. 1. The backup OL not being cohesive. 2. Our running game. My best hypothesis is that we have a lot of room for improvement in both and I feel like it's going to be a slow progression. I also think we have better talent than what we've displayed thus far in both areas.

I like what I'm seeing in the Safety arena, their experience has been refreshing thus far and also the CB's seem to be doing an adequate job. There's a great battle for the DB position and we have better depth, which is important come injury time.

Janis has been solid in every phase thus far.. This week we saw him literally waiting for a guy to catch a punt and he wrapped him up about as efficiently as one can expect. He's been running better routes IMO and his catches have been arguably equally as impressive as anyone else on the team. He also came very close to breaking a kickoff return. His size and athleticism are hard to beat for a utility player.

Our first team came out like it was week 4 regular season. We are crisp and we have a great foundation, as someone said earlier, if we are able to formulate any kind of respectable running game we will be dangerously good. Having Bennett is going to pay dividends for the next 3 years, he fights for the ball. It's refreshing to have a true #1 TE an still have a reliable guy like Richard 3rd string.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think Janis has done enough to prove that he should be on the 53 man roster, http://lastwordonprofootball.com/2017/08/21/jeff-janis-packers-53-man-roster/

Well written Jim, but I am still not sold on Janis being a lock to make the 53. His one value to the Packers is as a gunner on punts IMO, his abilities as a WR (in the regular season) and as a kick returner are both sub standard and aren't anything that would make me want to keep him on the 53. I think after 3 years, the Packers pretty much know what they have in Janis, so keeping or cutting him may come down to a process of elimination due to injuries and the play of other players, not necessarily the play of Janis himself. Simply put, are his abilities as a gunner special enough to cut a player with a higher upside (currently or future)? There is some decent young talent in the WR group this year and I would hate to lose one of them, just because Janis was a pretty decent gunner in 2015. I think McCaffery already has earned a spot as the #5 ahead of Janis. Davis was close, but may have taken a step backwards this last game. Dupre's injury won't help him. Yancey might be the guy the Packers try to sneak onto the PS and keep Janis. There are 2 more preseason games that 5-6 young WR's have to show the Packers why they deserve the spot over Janis.

 

[rmontro]

Is it possible that Janis is doing better as a WR because the backup quarterbacks are more willing to throw him the ball than Rodgers is?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Is it possible that Janis is doing better as a WR because the backup quarterbacks are more willing to throw him the ball than Rodgers is?

or.....that he is facing rookies and future car dealers?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I didn't watch the game closely but didn't Hawkins give up the touchdown late in the first half???

No, it was Brice. It's was hard to tell at the time or on video replay if it was 28 or 29, but the Packers announcers (replay on NFL Game Pass) identified Brice as the culprit. Hawkins was playing left corner that series.

Brice back peddled from the goal line to 5 yards deep and that was that. Now, in Brice's defense, King released his guy and was looking for work. That receiver was crossing behind Brice with no defender there. Brice may have sensed that guy coming behind him leading him to drop. If Brice had come up as you'd expect that receiver at the back would have been wide open.

So, yeah, you gotta give Brice the knock because the play was right in his face. But it really was a sh*tty zone coverage.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It looked like Hawkins was deeper in the end zone, can't tell who's at fault there.

Brice

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not if our Oline doesn't start run blocking better, with the lack of movement up front teams might be able to counter our big sets with nickel fronts.

Opponents will still have a tough time covering both Bennett and Kendricks with a defensive back if the Packers decide to motion one of them outside before the snap. It´s true that the offensive line improving blocking for the run would make it even more difficult to defend though.

Yeah, I was almost as dismayed with the Tretter loss as I was with the Sitton move.

There was no reason for the Packers to match the offer Tretter received from the Browns.

Well written Jim, but I am still not sold on Janis being a lock to make the 53.

While I definitely agree with your take on Janis as a receiver I fully expect him to make the final roster.

 

[swhitset]

There was no reason for the Packers to match the offer Tretter received from the Browns.

Can't say I agree if you state things in those absolute terms. I can think of many reasons actually. I too believe that the absence of Tretter has the potential to be devastating to the Packers O line. It's not like Linsley has been the Paragon of health throughout his career. However, I do agree that the price was just too high, and the Packers just had to let him go.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packer OL got "Caught" with too much quality depth and it was promote and pay them or lose them. Lane Taylor made Sitton expendable and Tretter didn't make any starter expendable for the kind of money he commanded, so he wasn't worth keeping around for starter money. Pretty much a running story through the history of the Packer offensive line. Which is a good sign, you are continuing to develop good players. The only "crack" in this perfect picture seems to be this year, when Evans had to be signed from elsewhere and there is some early indications that the quality of the backups is lacking.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Can't say I agree if you state things in those absolute terms. I can think of many reasons actually. I too believe that the absence of Tretter has the potential to be devastating to the Packers O line. It's not like Linsley has been the Paragon of health throughout his career. However, I do agree that the price was just too high, and the Packers just had to let him go.

Well, the bold part indicates that you absolutely agree with my take on it. Of course I would have liked the Packers to re-sign Tretter for a reasonable contract but it was the right decision to not match the offer he received on the open market.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Well, the bold part indicates that you absolutely agree with my take on it. Of course I would have liked the Packers to re-sign Tretter for a reasonable contract but it was the right decision to not match the offer he received on the open market.

At the money, I too found the move hard to criticize. Still, it took away our most valuable depth piece, though, on a line which has not gone many years without needing a backup to fill in extensively. Thus my dismay - not with the money, but with the loss. I do not claim to have a counter move which would have been better, I just was not happy overall. Such is the luxury of being a fan

 

[gopkrs]

I saw a backup center in the 2nd half and he looked like he could be good. I only saw a play or 2. Was it Lucas Patrick? I am not sure. Will have to check out the back up centers this next game.

 

[BrokenArrow]

or.....that he is facing rookies and future car dealers?

And which rookies and car dealers was he facing on January 16, 2016? He has proven he can play. And unless one chooses not to look, it's pretty easy to see that his route running is much improved this year after working on them all offseason. 2 years ago he would not have sold that route against the eagles last week. Unless he gets hurt, he makes the team. BTW, Larry McCarren, who is a pretty damn smart football guy also sees the improvement.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And which rookies and car dealers was he facing on January 16, 2016? He has proven he can play. And unless one chooses not to look, it's pretty easy to see that his route running is much improved this year after working on them all offseason. 2 years ago he would not have sold that route against the eagles last week. Unless he gets hurt, he makes the team. BTW, Larry McCarren, who is a pretty damn smart football guy also sees the improvement.

If you want to hang your "Janis Hat" on 2 hail marys and call him good, so be it. There is a reason that PS players and younger players have leap frogged him on the WR depth chart and it all has to do with his abilities or lack of, as a WR on offense.

 

[Mondio]

unless we really just break down every snap and player it's hard to tell how well those guys are or aren't doing. anytime any offensive line suffers a break in continuity, the entire offensive line suffers. I've seen it across all teams in all circumstances. Just 1 guy will create a blip, and a rather noticeable one, far more often than not. It usually takes, months of playing together, but at least weeks. The 2nd OL may take practice snaps together, but even that, they're substituting fairly often to see how guys work with each other and how they adapt. One guy not doing his job correctly will make them all look worse over all. For me, it's hard to judge them. I never know who's supposed to slide where or help who so when I see a guy out of position and a defender push right past him, was it because he was trying to recover from the guy next to him missing the call? or because he is too slow? too slow to diagnose? poor technique? wrong protection? too many variables for me once we get past the 1st line. I like to see how a guy or 2 will do with some starters around him.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Can't say I agree if you state things in those absolute terms. I can think of many reasons actually. I too believe that the absence of Tretter has the potential to be devastating to the Packers O line. It's not like Linsley has been the Paragon of health throughout his career. However, I do agree that the price was just too high, and the Packers just had to let him go.

Well, all personnel decisions have a cost consideration.

I believe Tretter to be the better center. But the performance gap is narrow while the pay gap is wide (at least for this year) in comparison. If they thought Tretter was as good a guard as he is a center, they might have matched that Cleveland deal to make him a starting guard instead of signing Evans. Of course if that were the case somebody else might have paid him more than Cleveland to play OG.

In the final analysis, you just cannot afford to keep two starting-quality centers on the roster who don't have position flexibility.

Some might point to the $21 million in cap space that Thompson is sitting on, which will shrink to $18 million or less once they get to 53 + practice squad. They may have to pay a couple of these guys more than the PS minimum. Any replacements for guys who end up on IR or regular season PUP will bite into that somewhat.

Every year at this time there's $10+ mil in unused cap that fans want to see spent, but the excess cap has been getting rolled over every year since the 2011 CBA and somehow that cap eventually gets mostly spent. If the Packers were to end the season with, say, $16 million in cap, that will represent the rolling cap carryovers from the past 7 seasons, or about $2.3 million per year unspent. That's not a game changer.

Why more unused cap this year than in the past? The FA list for 2018 is not especially daunting. Well, the cap cannot keep going up forever and if the TV ratings don't improve the cap growth stall could come sooner rather than latter. Perhaps more importantly, Rodgers thinks he deserves a raise and sooner or later that will be a big number. Since there is always optimism for a Super Bowl win, if that happens this season Rodgers' raise will be a foregone conclusion taking affect next year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

While I definitely agree with your take on Janis as a receiver I fully expect him to make the final roster.

Maybe. But the Packers are looking for a reason to replace him. Drafting two WRs, playing Davis at gunner in these preseason games. They'd like to be able so say, "Davis is a ST specialist WR who warrants being on the game day roster and can serve as the #5 emergency WR", but I don't think they can say that right now.

I watched him gunning and he shows up late at the ball. The fumble hurts his case. McCaffrey might provide that versatility. He looks natural and fearless fielding punts. I have not noticed if they've tried him at gunner, but they should if they haven't. He's got a good speed/size combination for the job and he's just a smart football player who should be able to pick up the techniques pretty easily.

Janis looks improved as a receiver. His routes look a little cleaner and the double move he threw on that corner in week one for the TD was an impressive value add to his repertoire, inching closer to the Billy Schroeder benchmark. He still does not look natural catching the ball and the catch radius is still in question.

During the Redskins broadcast which is what I got on NFL Game Pass, Theismann observed that the Packers like Davis as a "bad ball catcher", an important trait in a WR. I don't believe Janis can ever be that guy.

 

[BrokenArrow]

If you want to hang your "Janis Hat" on 2 hail marys and call him good, so be it. There is a reason that PS players and younger players have leap frogged him on the WR depth chart and it all has to do with his abilities or lack of, as a WR on offense.

First, I don't have a "Janis hat." Second it was in direct response to your ridiculous ascertainment that Janis has only had success against "rookies and car salesmen"... a comment BTW that exposes your obvious disdain for JJ for whatever reason. Curiously, you have some pretty high praise for some other WRs based on preseason play. Yet you make no mention of all the rookies and car salesmen that have been covering them.

Again, Larry McCarren and several others are also saying he's looking pretty good. But I guess they're idiots too, right?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

But the Packers are looking for a reason to replace him. Drafting two WRs, playing Davis at gunner in these preseason games.

Well said. TT and MM don't say a whole lot in regards to player evaluation and what they are thinking, so I find myself having to interpret a lot of what they do or don't do, to guess what they are thinking.

1. Quickly sign Bahk to a new contract.........Spriggs might not be they guy they thought he was.
2. Draft 3 RB's............Monty alone isn't going to work.
3. Sign Lane Taylor to a decent contract.......Sitton or Lang leaving soon.
4. Sign House and use your first pick for another CB.........Randall and Rollins aren't starting caliber.

Maybe we need a thread on its own: "What TT/MM aren't saying but must be thinking"

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Maybe we need a thread on its own: "What TT/MM aren't saying but must be thinking"

Are you TRYING to start a riot?


IM IN!

 

[Sky King]

If you want to hang your "Janis Hat" on 2 hail marys and call him good, so be it. There is a reason that PS players and younger players have leap frogged him on the WR depth chart and it all has to do with his abilities or lack of, as a WR on offense.

Hmmm...It really looks like your disdain for Janis has put you in a tough spot. Unless he gets cut you may be getting a less-than cheerful earful from all those posters that have been belittled as part of your relentless anti-Janis campaign. If he makes the team and, Heaven forbid that he makes a good play here and there, be prepared to reap what you've sown. Maybe you sense this, too, and that's the reason you seem to be cheering so outwardly for him to fail. Whatever, it's uncommon for a Packer fan to be so anti-Packer player.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

First, I don't have a "Janis hat." Second it was in direct response to your ridiculous ascertainment that Janis has only had success against "rookies and car salesmen"... a comment BTW that exposes your obvious disdain for JJ for whatever reason. Curiously, you have some pretty high praise for some other WRs based on preseason play. Yet you make no mention of all the rookies and car salesmen that have been covering them.

Again, Larry McCarren and several others are also saying he's looking pretty good. But I guess they're idiots too, right?

All I can do is direct you to the Janis thread.......you might actually gain some valuable insight as well as my true feelings on JJ.

Same comments have been made about JJ every preseason, I'm still waiting to see them come to fruition.

You think unless he gets injured, he is a lock to make the final 53, I happen to disagree with you.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hmmm...It really looks like your disdain for Janis has put you in a tough spot. Unless he gets cut you may be getting a less-than cheerful earful from all those posters that have been belittled as part of your relentless anti-Janis campaign. If he makes the team and, Heaven forbid that he makes a good play here and there, be prepared to reap what you've sown. Maybe you sense this, too, and that's the reason you seem to be cheering so outwardly for him to fail. Whatever, it's uncommon for a Packer fan to be so anti-Packer player.

LOL......again, like I told Lady GP.....look at my comments in the Janis thread over time. I held out hope that he would succeed, but it got to a point where he has become somewhat of a joke. There are the Janis lovers and someone like me, who has become a disbeliever based on results or lack of.

I would LOVE for Jeff Janis to become the wide receiver some think he already is and many still hold out hope that he will be and if that happens......serve me up a big plate of crow, I'm ready. If Janis earns a spot as a special teamer, so be it.

Oh.....so this is new to the forum, to have and express negative feelings about a player, coach anything Packers?

 

[PackAttack12]

Whatever, it's uncommon for a Packer fan to be so anti-Packer player.

Not if said Packer fan believes that someone else better than Janis could provide more overall production to the Packers.

That actually validates his Packer fandom.