Position Rankings (OT, ILB, TE, OLB)

[tynimiller]

4zone you are exactly right on a lot.

G is gonna be crunch time in a year or two for us, 4th - 7th round I hope to see one or two selected...could be long term solution there.

When discussing the draft I agree, guys gotta get off who the best in each position is and we should draft them...because UNLESS we trade up most positions will already have the tippy top taken...I could see a case where a TE would slide to us surprisingly...but that is a rarity setting where we are. Still very good players and some that way over perform the one already drafted.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Unless you think the Packers are going to draft one of the top-5 ILBs in the entire NFL with a high round pick (in an NFL draft that's weak at ILB), picking an ILB that high is spending way too much on a position that just doesn't matter nearly as much as the dline, corner or edge rusher.

The Packers lack of talent at inside linebacker over the last few seasons has resulted in the team losing games and it's long overdue that Thompson finally addresses the position adequately. With him not using free agency an early draft pick is the best chance to do it.

Really? Please let me know how many Pro Bowl UDFA dlinemen have been in the NFl recently...go on, I'll wait. I'll even guess that there are very few late-round (say round 4 or later) Pro Bowl dlinemen in the NFL. Dlinemen go FAST in the draft.

The Packers best DL was drafted in the fourth round. It's possible to find talented guys at the position later in the draft as well.

 

[4zone]

A good article on NFL Spin Zone about Mike Pennel:

http://nflspinzone.com/2016/01/27/green-bay-packers-mike-pennel-future-nose-tackle/

If management has the same thoughts about his current production and potential, perhaps they let Raji go shopping and just sign Guion at a mid level couple year contract then move Mike to NT next year. If Raji doesn't get any stellar offers, maybe we can get him back at a reasonable price, if not... not a total loss. I've liked Mike from the start and am glad he is raising his game to the next level. I'm not going to start predicting he's Gravedigger 2.0 but he's got fire for sure. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

A good article on NFL Spin Zone about Mike Pennel:

http://nflspinzone.com/2016/01/27/green-bay-packers-mike-pennel-future-nose-tackle/

If management has the same thoughts about his current production and potential, perhaps they let Raji go shopping and just sign Guion at a mid level couple year contract then move Mike to NT next year. If Raji doesn't get any stellar offers, maybe we can get him back at a reasonable price, if not... not a total loss. I've liked Mike from the start and am glad he is raising his game to the next level. I'm not going to start predicting he's Gravedigger 2.0 but he's got fire for sure. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I think that guy is taking a way too optimistic approach in evaluating Pennel.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

We don't need pro bowlers. We need 'solid'. Anything above that is gravy. Right now, we are a few players short of an elite 'D' and NT isn't one of them. Not that it wouldn't make it better. As for UDFA pro bowlers, who cares, it's all a fan frenzy popularity vote anyway. Not that the best guys actually get voted to go. In short, the pro bowl is not my measuring stick for guys I would want on my team, it's their performance on the field.

Now, if TT lets Raji and Guion walk in FA, then it's an entirely different story. Also, i don't have an aversion to drafting a DT at all, as long as we can get upgrades at TE and ILB. I think we can also get some long term talant at OLB, nad OT as well. G is also a projected need next year we may want to address as well. It's a great time of year, the season of speculation.

Sunshine, who do you think will drop to #27 for us to take at DT after all the other teams in the NFL pick the high end talent ahead of us? Who's your favorite guy, 'likely' to fall that far? Not the best in class, they'll be gone long before we get to them.

It's not about a guy falling, it's about the inside dline position being MUCH deeper in this draft than TE or ILB.

Guys Packers could look at would be Austin Johnson, Jarran Reed or Andrew Billings. I'm not anti-Henry at TE, I just think that the dline is a more important part of an NFL team than the TE position (unless the TE is Gronk). Same thing is true for the ILB position, I just don't think there will be an ILB worth a first round pick for the Packers that late in the first round. I wouldn't be averse to a guy like Scooby Wright in the early third though (assuming some trade back from the second or up in the third).

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The Packers lack of talent at inside linebacker over the last few seasons has resulted in the team losing games and it's long overdue that Thompson finally addresses the position adequately. With him not using free agency an early draft pick is the best chance to do it.



The Packers best DL was drafted in the fourth round. It's possible to find talented guys at the position later in the draft as well.

Yes, the Packers found a guy in the fourth round. That does not disprove the reality that great dlinemen are FAR more likely (more likely than many other positions) to be found in the first/second rounds. If we're hanging our hats on great players being drafted in the fourth, should the Packers just trade their first three picks for a whole bunch of fourth rounders?

Poor ILB play has been a factor in losses but it's certainly not the main factor in the Packer's recent playoff losses. It's just an easy position to point to and say, "We need an upgrade!!! Spend high picks on a position that NFL teams normally don't spend high picks on!!!!" There's a reason that ILB is not an in-demand position in the NFL.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, the Packers found a guy in the fourth round. That does not disprove the reality that great dlinemen are FAR more likely (more likely than many other positions) to be found in the first/second rounds. If we're hanging our hats on great players being drafted in the fourth, should the Packers just trade their first three picks for a whole bunch of fourth rounders?

That's a ridiculous statement not even worth of a reply.

Poor ILB play has been a factor in losses but it's certainly not the main factor in the Packer's recent playoff losses. It's just an easy position to point to and say, "We need an upgrade!!! Spend high picks on a position that NFL teams normally don't spend high picks on!!!!" There's a reason that ILB is not an in-demand position in the NFL.

The lack of talent at the inside linebacker position was directly responsible for 20 points allowed during last year's NFCCG at Seattle, being the main factor for the Packers loss.

The Packers have more talent on the DL than at ILB and with Thompson recently struggling to acquire talent at the defensive line early in the draft (Thornton, Jones, Worthy) I would be fine with him trying to upgrade a position in more dire need of an upgrade in the first round.

 

[thisisnate]

I'd be kinda surprised if we took an inside linebacker in the 1st (not that there are many options there that early anyhow), was more thinking we'd go olb if we went linebacker there. Really looking forward to seeing what things look like after combine.

 

[TJV]

Pennel made progress in his second season, Raji started the season great and then got injured in game 5 and wasn’t the same, Guion played poorly early and was replaced by Pennel then came on late in the season and looked great, particularly on a couple of goal line stands. Boyd went to IR in game 2 is too light to play NT. McGinn writes the Packers played base D about 18% so IMO two players who can play NT should be enough. So it seems to me how DTs perform in the nickel should be a big factor. Pennel is a bargain at $600K for 2016 and if they re-sign either Raji or Guion that’s two. Even when Raji wasn’t providing pressure he mostly did OK vs. the run. Guion’s character is still a question as well as why it took him so long to start playing well.

Based upon Thompson’s MO, when pick #27 comes up he’ll select who he and his staff determine to be the best football player at several positions (to various degrees) of need. (The caveat is if a player from a higher talent tier falls to their pick.) My guess is they’d have to think an ILB is really special to pick him in the first round (same for an OG for example). That's why it would be better if Thompson would not only work on keeping the UFAs he wants to retain but also go after UFAs at positions of need. If he would, picking BVA in the draft would not only make more sense, but be more effective.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Pennel made progress in his second season, Raji started the season great and then got injured in game 5 and wasn’t the same, Guion played poorly early and was replaced by Pennel then came on late in the season and looked great, particularly on a couple of goal line stands. Boyd went to IR in game 2 is too light to play NT. McGinn writes the Packers played base D about 18% so IMO two players who can play NT should be enough. So it seems to me how DTs perform in the nickel should be a big factor. Pennel is a bargain at $600K for 2016 and if they re-sign either Raji or Guion that’s two. Even when Raji wasn’t providing pressure he mostly did OK vs. the run. Guion’s character is still a question as well as why it took him so long to start playing well.

Based upon Thompson’s MO, when pick #27 comes up he’ll select who he and his staff determine to be the best football player at several positions (to various degrees) of need. (The caveat is if a player from a higher talent tier falls to their pick.) My guess is they’d have to think an ILB is really special to pick him in the first round (same for an OG for example). That's why it would be better if Thompson would not only work on keeping the UFAs he wants to retain but also go after UFAs at positions of need. If he would, picking BVA in the draft would not only make more sense, but be more effective.

As you're well aware I would love Thompson to address obvious positions of need in free agency so he doesn't have to draft for need. Unfortunately I don't expect that to happen though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers History of taking D lineman in the first 3 rounds since 2000 hasn't been glowing, nor does it instill a lot of confidence with me that it would be the right thing to do this year.

Sign our best FA's on the D line and be done with it.

2000: 3rd Round (74th pick): Steve Warren
2001: 1st Round (10th pick): Jamal Reynolds
2003: 3rd Round (79th): Kenny Peterson
2004: 3rd Round (72nd): Donnell Washington
2007: 1st Round (16th): Justin Harrell
2009: 1st Round (9th): BJ Raji
2010: 2nd Round(56th): Mike Neal
2012: 2nd Round (51st): Jerel Worthy
2013: 1st Round (26th): Datone Jones
2014: 3rd Round (85th): Khyri Thornton

 

[Mondio]

I wonder what Dlinemen for all NFL teams look like. To me I think it's tough at any position. We see it more because we pay attention to Green Bay, but I have a feeling it's similar across the league. Just when I look at the biggest bust lists, how many are big men that were can't miss taken early in the first round, and they clearly ended up as misses.

Harrel was a risk, had injury history, but apparently some talent. The injury history is the story of his career. Raji has been OK overall, instrumental in great success and also a disappointment to decent in his play so far. Neal has been ok, good rotational player and adequate starter. Very disappointed in Worthy. Looked very quick and dominant in college, beat blocks routinely and then showed a few quick flashes, got injured and that was it for him. Jones is still up in the air. Disappointing to flashes. Everytime I'm about to say he's worth it, he disappears again. and I expected a lot more out of Thorton too. Was happy with the pick, very disappointed in the production to say the least.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

That's a ridiculous statement not even worth of a reply.



The lack of talent at the inside linebacker position was directly responsible for 20 points allowed during last year's NFCCG at Seattle, being the main factor for the Packers loss.

The Packers have more talent on the DL than at ILB and with Thompson recently struggling to acquire talent at the defensive line early in the draft (Thornton, Jones, Worthy) I would be fine with him trying to upgrade a position in more dire need of an upgrade in the first round.

It's not ridiculous, you pointed out that Daniels was a fourth round pick that turned into a good player as if that somehow refuted my point. It didn't.

The Packers NEED more talent on the dline than they need at ILB, every NFL team needs that because the dline is FAR more important than ILB. Nobody looks at an oline and says the team has one really good tackle, one decent tackle and one decent center and says there's more talent at tackle so the team needs a center; tackles are more important than center so you NEED more talent at tackle. Same holds true at dline.

I also don't understand this idea that the Packers have a good amount of proven talent on the dline. The Packers have Mike Daniels (very good), Datone Jones (good rushing the passer in limited snaps but weak against the run), Raji/Guion (below average), and then a bunch of unproven guys. Let's remember that the Packers have 5 dlinemen on the active roster and two of those will be free agents. Jones has also talked as if he'll be spending some time at OLB. So where is all this "good" talent on the dline? Jones is an excellent rusher but the Packers didn't play him on base downs for a reason and nobody knows how he'll handle a full-time role. I don't look at a dline that features ONE very good player as a "strong" unit by any stretch, especially when the dline has become the most important defensive group in today's NFL.

 

[4zone]

I think that guy is taking a way too optimistic approach in evaluating Pennel.

I'm

It's not about a guy falling, it's about the inside dline position being MUCH deeper in this draft than TE or ILB.

Guys Packers could look at would be Austin Johnson, Jarran Reed or Andrew Billings. I'm not anti-Henry at TE, I just think that the dline is a more important part of an NFL team than the TE position (unless the TE is Gronk). Same thing is true for the ILB position, I just don't think there will be an ILB worth a first round pick for the Packers that late in the first round. I wouldn't be averse to a guy like Scooby Wright in the early third though (assuming some trade back from the second or up in the third).

Ahh, finally some good draft banter.

I agree, good depth at DL in this draft. I think we can look for two effects this will have on the draft. 1st, teams will go hot and heavy for the top tier talent in the first round. If a run occurs, this could strip out a lot of talent and leave talent at other positions not normally expected to drop as far. 2nd, it could go the other way, where teams focus on the upper talent at other positions because it won't be there after the 1st round, leaving more top tier DL talent available on day 2.

I tend to believe it will go somewhere in between as I think there are more GM's right now that are thinking better than say 5-10 years ago. You will still have desperate teams reaching but I don't think that's as prevalent as it was a few years ago.

I fully expect ILB to be picked clean of 1st round talent by our pick. Beniquez Brown seems to be a player on TT's wish list but I also don't think he will fall to us in the 2nd round. Check out some video on this link:

http://lombardiave.com/2016/01/20/packers-already-set-sights-linebacker-prospect/2/

Not a lot of samples to go off of but from what is show, the speed looks real good and really just what we need at those positions.

As for TE, sadly, unless we go with Henry in the 1st, I don't expect we will get him at all. Hooper is a long shot to drop to the 3rd round so that would leave Vannett, maybe in the 4th. As for talent TE vs DL, to make the pick in the 1st round, he would have to be seen as a Gronk type player. Otherwise, hard to justify the money.

Another option that TT has used in the past, and which might actually be a good option this year based on needs vs talent vs big board is that we trade down out of the first to somewhere in the top 5-8 positions in 2nd and grab another pick or two in there. This might better align us with Brown and get us more shots at picks for OL and DL on day 3. I certainly wouldn't sit here today and promote that option not knowing everything that is going to happen between now and the 27th pick in the draft but it is an option. I don't see us trading up at all, especially for LB or TE. We can't move up high enough for the elite level guys knowing the number of big bodies we are going to have to restock on this year. But going down is a real option for sure.

Who falls to #27? That's the big question. Will it be OL, WR, RB, LB... (TE not in that equation) What if Ezekiel Elliot falls? Do we try to 'survive' with Raji and Guion for another 2-3 years at mid level contracts and focus on other positions of more immediate needs? I like our chances at getting a long term impact guy this year at whatever position falls to us. We have 26 other teams to consider and our own FA's between now and that pick. If we end up with Billings or Reed, I certainly won't complain. If we give the QB less time to throw, our LB's won't have to cover as long... But with the push from MM to get CM3 back outside, I expect some serious focus to be brought to bear to make that happen.

 

[OldSchool101]

Sometimes we complicate the situation and forget what "IT"was that held us back from current success.
This years biggest deficiency was clearly lack of Offensive production. If our offense would've been top 10 scoring we'd still be playing this weekend IMO.
That's not to say we don't need improvements on the D side also, but the point I'm making is prioritizing. Our team is built around AR and protecting him and giving him weapons is paramount and needs to be our focus early this offseason. This year (2015)severely lacked Offensive weapons and protection. Yes, yes I know. Injuries. But using that excuse only tells me we lacked depth.
I sound like a broken record but I think FA is more crucial this year than most because unless we have 4 1st rounders that live up to 1st transition, we don't have the luxury of time to develop them unless we wanna write 2016 off to "rebuilding mode".
I prefer to win Championships now because we are 1 major injury from a major catastrophe (2014) and I'm quite sure many of you agree.
Let's put our chips in this year. We've been too close the last few years to "hope" for the best. Let's be the best in 2016.
I'm not gonna be happy if Aaron is pulling a Peyton Manning 5-6 years from now with still just 1 ring because we got cheap and bought an RCA when we should've went Sony.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's not ridiculous, you pointed out that Daniels was a fourth round pick that turned into a good player as if that somehow refuted my point. It didn't.

Daniels as a fourth-rounder being by far the best defensive lineman on the Packers proves that it´s possible to find talent at the position later in the draft. Of course first-round picks are a team´s best chance to get impact players but that´s true for every single position.

The Packers NEED more talent on the dline than they need at ILB, every NFL team needs that because the dline is FAR more important than ILB. Nobody looks at an oline and says the team has one really good tackle, one decent tackle and one decent center and says there's more talent at tackle so the team needs a center; tackles are more important than center so you NEED more talent at tackle. Same holds true at dline.

I also don't understand this idea that the Packers have a good amount of proven talent on the dline. The Packers have Mike Daniels (very good), Datone Jones (good rushing the passer in limited snaps but weak against the run), Raji/Guion (below average), and then a bunch of unproven guys. Let's remember that the Packers have 5 dlinemen on the active roster and two of those will be free agents. Jones has also talked as if he'll be spending some time at OLB. So where is all this "good" talent on the dline? Jones is an excellent rusher but the Packers didn't play him on base downs for a reason and nobody knows how he'll handle a full-time role. I don't look at a dline that features ONE very good player as a "strong" unit by any stretch, especially when the dline has become the most important defensive group in today's NFL.

There´s no doubt that if the Packers let Raji and Guion walk in free agency the defensive line would be in need of an upgrade and I would be fine to spend a first-round pick on the position. On the other hand if both are re-signed there´s no need for it.

It seems like the coaching staff wants to move Matthews back outside which results in a dire need of an upgrade at inside linebacker. I don´t care how Thompson addresses the position but it should be obvious to every Packers fan he needs to improve the position.

As for talent TE vs DL, to make the pick in the 1st round, he would have to be seen as a Gronk type player. Otherwise, hard to justify the money.

Last year´s 27th overall pick made less money than Quarless, so if the Packers consider Henry a first-round talent I would be fine with Thompson selecting him at #27.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Daniels as a fourth-rounder being by far the best defensive lineman on the Packers proves that it´s possible to find talent at the position later in the draft. Of course first-round picks are a team´s best chance to get impact players but that´s true for every single position.



There´s no doubt that if the Packers let Raji and Guion walk in free agency the defensive line would be in need of an upgrade and I would be fine to spend a first-round pick on the position. On the other hand if both are re-signed there´s no need for it.

It seems like the coaching staff wants to move Matthews back outside which results in a dire need of an upgrade at inside linebacker. I don´t care how Thompson addresses the position but it should be obvious to every Packers fan he needs to improve the position.



Last year´s 27th overall pick made less money than Quarless, so if the Packers consider Henry a first-round talent I would be fine with Thompson selecting him at #27.

I've never said the ILB position doesn't need to be improved, I fully agree that it DOES need to be improved. However, I think the dline needs to be improved MORE. The Packers will have over $30 million in cap space and no real free agents of note, if Thompson wants to go out and sign a guy like Damon Harrison at NT for $6-$7mn per year, then this is the year to do it. Then feel free to look at ILB more highly. I just don't think the dline is as "set" as some seem to believe considering that the dline features ONE good full-time player.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Interesting report/speculation from Ian Rapoport:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay...539/Will-Packers-aim-for-big-name-free-agents

Hope he isn't just setting us all up for a let down!

 

[Mondio]

Von Miller ?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I've never said the ILB position doesn't need to be improved, I fully agree that it DOES need to be improved. However, I think the dline needs to be improved MORE. The Packers will have over $30 million in cap space and no real free agents of note, if Thompson wants to go out and sign a guy like Damon Harrison at NT for $6-$7mn per year, then this is the year to do it. Then feel free to look at ILB more highly. I just don't think the dline is as "set" as some seem to believe considering that the dline features ONE good full-time player.

Once again, IMO if the Packers re-sign Raji and Guion there are more pressing needs on the team which should be addressed with the team´s first-round pick.

Interesting report/speculation from Ian Rapoport:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay...539/Will-Packers-aim-for-big-name-free-agents

Hope he isn't just setting us all up for a let down!

I think this video is from last year and we all know that Rapoport was completely wrong about it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think this video is from last year and we all know that Rapoport was completely wrong about it.

LOL...I wondered a bit about when that video was shot, since I didn't see a date (especially with comment about Raji turning down $8M "last year").

I guess once again, Rapoport and TT let us down. I have a feeling that video could be played this time of year, any year to give us all false hope about TT and the FA market.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Interesting report/speculation from Ian Rapoport:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay...539/Will-Packers-aim-for-big-name-free-agents

Hope he isn't just setting us all up for a let down!

5 free agents?!?!?! I just don't see it, but it will make for an interesting offseason. Just hope we don't pay guys who don't perform and then get stuck down the line. We need to be smart which is obvious.

EDIT: Just saw the other comments, didn't realize it was an old video. Expect more of the same lol

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Once again, IMO if the Packers re-sign Raji and Guion there are more pressing needs on the team which should be addressed with the team´s first-round pick.

How is having subpar NTs not a weakness in a 3-4 defense? The NT is one of the more important positions in the 3-4 defense and this draft has good depth in the first round at interior dline. An edge rusher would be terrific as well in the first.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

How is having subpar NTs not a weakness in a 3-4 defense? The NT is one of the more important positions in the 3-4 defense and this draft has good depth in the first round at interior dline. An edge rusher would be terrific as well in the first.

IMO the Packers defense can get by with Raji playing nose tackle, especially defending the run.

In addition the team played their base defense on only 17.7% of the snaps, so maybe you overvalue the NT position in Capers defense.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

How is having subpar NTs not a weakness in a 3-4 defense? The NT is one of the more important positions in the 3-4 defense and this draft has good depth in the first round at interior dline. An edge rusher would be terrific as well in the first.

We've had some busts in that area, I.e. Datone Jones and Perry. I think if Jaylon Smith is available when we're on the clock, that's the way you have to go. Probably won't happen, but it's possible.