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Position Rankings (OT, ILB, TE, OLB)

Discussion in '2016 Draft Archive' started by 4zone, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Because the ILB position was TERRIBLE for the Packers. I never said the ILB could be played by bad players. It was also because the Packers had more good OLBs than they did ILBs. Packers needed to get Perry, Peppers, Neal and Matthews on the field because all of them were better than any of the ILBs on the team. ILBs don't need to be elite but they also can't be terrible (and the Packers had better players at OLB than ILB and Matthews was the only guy that had the potential to play ILB).

    I would guess 2010 was because the three best dlinemen on the team were Jenkins, Pickett and Raji and Pickett and Raji were both natural NTs. That's not an ideal 3-4 dline. Either way, I certainly wouldn't expect Capers to use a lot of a defense that relied on Raji to play NT often. Give him a good NT and allow Daniels and Jones to play DE and suddenly the Packers have a good 3-4 dline to build on.
     
  2. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers have better players on the defensive line than at inside linebacker as well (assuming Raji is re-signed), that´s why I´m all in favor of spending an early pick on an impact ILB.

    Capers doesn´t play a ton of base defense because opposing offenses force them to play a ton of nickel and dime schemes, diminishing the importance of a dominant NT. Having a better player at the position wouldn´t change a thing on how often the unit lines up in a base 3-4.
     
  3. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I'll just say that the Packers could use an upgrade at NT.

    But the more interesting point is the one you make about dline and ILB. First, the Packers have one good full-time player on the dline but since the team has zero proven ILBs then yes, there is more talent on the dline, but that's really because the cupboard is bare at ILB not because the team's dline is above average. I would argue that any teams needs a LOT more talent on the dline than at ILB. The Giants won two Super Bowls based in large part on their dline talent and I don't think they fielded much in the way of impact inside linebackers. The Seahawks won a Super Bowl and went to another and Michael Bennett and Avril had more to do with that than Bruce Irvin (who is a great example of a slightly above average ILB but who is looked at as a bust because he was a first round pick). Great defenses in the NFL have above average defensive lines. I can't think of many good defenses that have average or worse defensive lines but great inside linebackers.
     
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I agree the Packers defensive line could use an upgrade, something that is probably true for all positions aside of QB though. Once again, if the Packers re-sign Raji there's enough talent on the DL to make it work.

    With the coaching staff wanting to move Matthews outside again the team totally lacks talent at inside linebacker, therefore the position is the one on the defensive side of the ball in desperate need of improvement.

    BTW taking alook at this year's Panthers defense I think it's fair to say that their ILBs are the best players on the unit. And the Broncos feature two players at the position far superior than the Packers as well.

    If Thompson continues to ignore the ILB position it will come back to haunt the team once again.
     
  5. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I don't want Thompson to ignore the unit but I don't think the talent at ILB will be worth the pick for the Packers early in the draft (unless Jaylon Smith miraculously falls, then I think it's worth it).

    As for the Panthers, yes, they have the best ILB in the NFL. However, they also have two terrific defensive tackles playing in front of him (terrific as in both are probably top-25).
     
  6. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    It´s possible that there won´t be any inside linebacker worth of a first-round pick available when the Packers pick at #27. In that case I would like Thompson to go in a different direction as well. That´s why I´m advocating to address the position in free agency as well.

    I agree that Kawann Short is one of the league´s top defensive linemen but the Panthers don´t have any other terrific DL.
     
  7. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Star Lotulelei wasn't as good this year but he was very good last year and pretty good his rookie season. Pretty sure many teams would take his physical gifts and what he's shown on tape.
     
  8. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    IMO the Linebacker position is the #1 focus this off season. So many question marks in an already questionable unit.

    1. Will Peppers be a Packer? If not, who takes his place?
    2. Will TT do enough to allow Clay to move back outside?
    3. Are Jones, Barrington and Ryan starters or just capable backups?
    4. Will Neal or Perry be signed?
    5. Palmer, Thomas, Mulumba.....backups at best, if even on the 2016 team.

    My thoughts:

    I think and hope Peppers will be back. Clay needs to get back outside. TT needs to go after a quality ILB in FA.
    The draft should include 1-2 linebackers somewhere between picks 1-4.
     
  9. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I know it is early...but captainWIMM who in FA do you honestly think is worth pursuing to fill the cover ILB void we got? I thought possibly the Trav(sp) guy from Denver but if Manning retires they may continue to do this "Defense dominance...offense suckance" approach and resign him.
     
  10. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    After taking a closer look at the Broncos inside linebackers over the last few games I would prefer to get Brandon Marshall. He will most likely either be re-signed by Denver or price himself out of what the Packers would offer him.
     
  11. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Glad to hear someone else think he is a better fit than the other. I agree though, barring maybe Peppers not coming back and TT getting nutsy in FA this wouldn't make financial sense.
     
  12. Wynnebeck

    Wynnebeck Cheesehead

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    Peppers is coming back considering he'll make less money than he did last season and him being cut or retiring only frees up about $5-6 million of cap space. The only ILB worth taking would be Ragland and most mock drafts have him going in the top 20. Barring any ridiculous combine results, Hunter Henry will likely slide to Rd. 2 and possibly out of GB's reach. That makes me believe we'll either see a DE or position from OL be filled in Rd 1. Only other possible move is to trade back out of Round 1 and even that is a gamble.
     
  13. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Peppers not returning would free up $8 million in cap space. I don´t see the need to either draft a defensive end or an offensive lineman with the first-round pick.
     
  14. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    The only way I see the Packers going (or should go) OT in the first round is if by some miracle they address the ILB and TE positions via FA's. This I rather doubt will happen. Decker and Conklin could both be on the board at #27 and their value has ranged all over the board when it comes to mocks.
     
  15. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

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    With the expected retirement of Manning and Osweiler possibly gone in free agency I'm thinking the #27 pick (in front of Denver at 31) might become a hot pick for a QB-needy team to trade up to. I'd love for TT to trade back into Rnd 2 and grab a team's #2 & #3 (within 12 picks of the top, I'm looking at you LA Rams!).
     
  16. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    The only way I see us going DE or well really anything besides ILB or TE with our 1st is if there truly simply isn't even an average player in either that "may" be good. Those two spots are so glaring it is crazy, and honestly those two spots just filled with above average and this team instantly in my opinion is elite, or atleast has the roster to be obviously barring injuries or unforeseen issues like Lacy ballooning up was this year.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I don't think Denver is letting Osweiler vacate town...he will garner info yes, but Denver out of everyone will pay the most I believe. However, should that scenario play out, a quick slide back to their #31 spot with them throwing in a #3 and maybe a 5th or 6th would be perfect trade scenario. Again, not something to plan on but something to keep in mind, and you know TT loves those kinda of moves.
     
  18. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Even if Thompson addresses ILB and TE in free agency I don´t see the need to spend a first-round pick on the offensive line as I´m fine with the starters but would like the team to add depth to the position. That could be addressed later in the draft though.
     
  19. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    If a stud Guard were to drop and be the obvious replacement of one of ours next year I'd be cool with it....but that is given the fact we already solved our TE and ILB woes and shored up or DL/DE with resignings or new ones. <----not all of that is happening.
     
  20. Wynnebeck

    Wynnebeck Cheesehead

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    Like I said, he'll only count as $5-6 million in cap space which for what he brings to the table is not a lot.
     
  21. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I don´t see any guard being worth of a first-round pick and with the Packers scheme it´s possible to find starters later in the draft.

    Peppers will count $10.5 million toward the cap next season if the Packers bring him back.
     
  22. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

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    His '16 cap # is $10.5Mil, broken down as $7Mil base salary, $2.5Mil prorated SB, $.5 roster bonus, $.5 workout bonus. If Peppers is cut the Packers save $8Mil total between salary and the two $.5Mil bonuses.
     
  23. Wynnebeck

    Wynnebeck Cheesehead

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    ? Demovsky just wrote this about 15 minutes ago:

    I'm not seeing the 10.5 million?
     
  24. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Peppers would earn $8 million by playing in every single game in 2016 but because of his prorated signing bonus (adding another $2.5 million) count $10.5 million towards the Packers cap.

    If the Packers decide to release him or he retires the $2.5 million in prorated signing bonus would still count against the team´s cap.
     
  25. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    • Agree Agree x 1

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