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Packers vs Lions: Studs n Duds

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by PackAttack12, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. greengold

    greengold Cheesehead

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    Sideline reporter said she checked field both before and at half, and both times, the field was dry. The announcers asker her right after the Shepherd slip. To me, it is your home turf, and you should know if you have the right cleats on to make a hard cut, before gametime.
     
  2. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I was surprised to see him back there still fair catching punts actually. Which I would normally think, BFD, it's a fair catch. But he had to be under a ton of pressure and embarassed as can be, but he still did it and was fairly sure handed with it. though he wasn't really challanged on them at that point either.
     
  3. greengold

    greengold Cheesehead

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    I felt bad for Shepherd, as I do consider him a quality receiver. Man, did he suck last night.
     
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  4. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    Last night doesn't matter anymore, like everything it's about what happens next. Does he make excuses like Montgomery last year? or get to work? Does he pout like Josh Jones and quit? Or seize opportunity like Lazard after being cut from the roster, getting back on PS and working towards his opportunity last night? What's next is most important for him.
     
  5. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    He definitely had a very rough night, as he damn near lost the football game single handedly, muffing the punt, and mishandling the football/falling at the goal line to lead to the interception that cost the Packers points, and obviously led to points for the Lions.

    There were obviously other mistakes made in that game, but those two really hurt.
     
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  6. LetzBreel

    LetzBreel Cheesehead

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    Only two studs from last nights game. Lazard made the most of his debut. What says it all about his performance for me was making the catch, sizing up his defender and running OVER him like a truck! That play says to teammates, opponents, fans and coaches, this is how bad I want to win. This is how far I will go to play for this team. STUD! STUD! STUD! Second stud - Jamaal Williams. He always runs hard and never is shy about contact. But what could be the maybe most important play of the game to me is putting his ego aside and going down short of the goal line. That's a team player and I will follow 53 guys like that to hell and back. Brains in football - Imagine that. Well done young men!
     
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  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Yup. Not so much in Week 1. For you or against you is a random matter from week to week.

    The NFL has some very serious problems.

    Not so long ago it was a common occurrance on replay to say there wasn't a good camera angle by which to judge. They've added so many cameras to facilitate replay reviews that's become rare. Even away from the ball, like the phantom "hands to the face" calls against Flowers you get a couple of angles.

    The cameras are hi-def, your TV is hi-def, the stadium jumbotrons are something approximating hi-def. Everybody sees everything on replay on nearly every play.

    The refs are not worse than they've been in the past. You see more and better.

    The second problem is even on slo-mo replay we get different interpretations and mis-interpretations of the rules from one game to the next from former official commetators to the booth to New York. PI and no-PI calls are in high relief this year. Levy, the 3-time Super Bowl offical commentating in this game, interpreted a non-PI call on a Packer as worthy of overturning which didn't get close to the level of infraction on the MVS deep ball in Week 1 that was reviewed in New York. On a non-catch call against Detroit, Levy was talking about 3 steps and with a football move. That isn't the rule anymore if it ever was. The rule is two feet down with possession then an additional act common to the game, "e.g., tuck the ball away, extend it forward, take an additional step, turn upfield, or avoid or ward off an opponent), or he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so." If Levy was of a mind to not confuse viewers, he should have been focusing on where possession occurred, if it did, and then whether he took one more step.

    What's to be done?

    First, you cannot put the technological genie back in the bottle. Take the officials off the field except for few to spot and place the ball. Add even more cameras. Make all the calls real time in New York and buzz the ref when they flag something. That means they have to add a bunch more officials in New York for each game monitoring the cameras. The cost is partially offset by the savings in having fewer field officials. In most circumstances, if New York is uncertain, they'll have time to review the replays as they do on all TDs and turnovers. Buzz the ref if a review is deemed necessary before the snap. The TD/turnover reviews now are typically transparant and do not interupt the game; only occasionally there is a delay for review. In hurry-up offense, they can stop a play for review if they feel the need to go to the slo-mo replay on the prior one. That's better than a field official throwing a flag that turns out to be a phantom call.

    Second, get all the officials on the same page. There was a lot of confusion when the league introduced the revised roughing the passer rules, a Clay Matthews flag being an example. The league responded by producing three videos for public consumption showing what was now considered roughing, the Clay play being one of them. Is that all they gave the refs? If so, that's nowhere near enough.

    The NFL needs to lock all these guys in a room out in the desert for a month of 12 hour days and show them play after play after play of what constitutes PI, holding, etc., etc. and what does not. These guys are out there rolling their own.

    It doesn't matter anymore what you or an official sees in real time. The play is now judged by everybody in slo-mo replay. It stands to reason the calls be turned over to people who have those tools.

    The other alternative is to get rid of the cameras and roll the clock back to before slo-mo was invented. All you'd get on TV is real time, and everybody has to go with that. That ain't gonna happen. The tech genie is here to stay and he keeps getting more refined.
     
  8. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Somebody else may have commented on this, but the sideline reporter checked on this. The people she talked to said they didn't see a problem, nobody changed cleats, and to her touch the turf was dry.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    After his muffed punt, I am guessing he was told to fair catch every ball. You were there, he gave up some good yardage calling for fair catches on 2 of the punts after that. Can't blame him for giving up those yards, if he was told to FC. However, if the coaches have lost trust in him, time to make a change?

    Somewhere, Trevor Davis was smiling last night, because Shepherd did not look like a returner or a WR last night. Let's just hope it was one bad game.

    I also think Detroit was totally unconcerned about Shepherds ability to return kick offs. Instead of kicking it into the endzone, Prater and the Lions kicked every one (except the one out of bounds) high and short of the goal line, forcing him to return the kick, none of which were returned past the 25.
     
  10. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I don't think its a matter of the on the field refs not knowing the rules, but more of a factor of 2 things. First, refs are being asked to make split second decisions on every play. Second, each ref's field of vision is limited to what a normal person can see. Even New York, with all the angles and slow motion aren't getting every call right, so on the field refs are never going to get all the calls correct. As technology advanced, so did everyone's ability to scrutinize every call, every play, frame by frame. So after almost every game, there is this constant chatter of "blown calls and how they changed the outcome of the game". Those blown calls were always there, technology, with social media being a big part of it, has just made it something a lot of people love to talk about and break down, frame by frame.

    Given that, its just a matter of what balance sits well between the NFL and its Fans. There will never be a clear opinion on that. Some want the game back to where it was pre-technology. Some want the game run as perfectly as possible, using all technology known to man. At the end of the day, the NFL does what they want, but hears the complaints and is only going to change things that assure themselves of still having what the majority of its paying audience feel is a quality product.
     
  11. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I don't think they lost trust in him, or Tramon would have been back there fair catching kicks. I think that was as much of a test for him as anything by the coaches. I'm pretty sure they told him, don't be a hero, just catch it. Davis can smile all he want. He's muffed his share and fumbled going into the endzone last week for the Raiders. He's like he's always been, talented, but not trustworthy. He'll give effort, but you're never sure how that's going to end up.
     
  12. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    This is where I think the problem is. Most real football fans can live with bad calls. We can, we have, we will. For or against, we're all human and we understand it. keep catering to those that think it can be "more perfect" and it will disconnect the hardcore fans and when the others don't get what they want for their fantasy leagues, they'll be off to the next thing.

    2 years in a row against Detroit the effects of replay have been obvious. The "muffed" punt that not a single official saw on the field but they called that way to let the score happen and then use replay to get it right just in case, except it couldn't. and again last night the first time the Packers defense denied them a TD, but they called it one anyway to err on the side of replay and let it sort it out, except it couldn't.

    Just tell me what the call is already and lets play. this is going to ruin football. every game, every call there must be scrutiny and outrage. it will never get right, in the end someone still has to make a call and move on. The media has a bunch of viewers today I'm sure, engaging ever enraged fan they can because it means money in their pocket. In the meantime they keep disenfranchising folks to the game over time and eroding the quality of officiating.

    We have officials that are being taught not to trust their eyes, it isn't better.
     
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  13. Dayooper

    Dayooper Cheesehead

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    Studs: The Referees. They won the game for us
    Duds: The entire wide receiver corp. None of them would even be back ups on Cincinnati or Maimi. Detroit's line backers could cover them deep in man coverage. Hands that can't grab their own Hinnys let alone hang on to it.
     
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  14. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I gave you an agree on this, even though you and I have differed on the use of replay in the past. I do agree with you on the fact that for some, it seems they would rather just debate about the officiating, than the merits of the game. The media has thrown gas on that fire as well, but after all, some just love drama and drama sells.
     
  15. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I know, but it used to be most sports fans found drama in the plays, in the sport. Sure there is drama in bad calls, then we'd move past it. Now sports networks exist just to drive drama. every word, every nuance, every action on the field and off. that used to exist in just the WWF, it should stay there.

    If they don't get back to the game, there won't be a game left. Instead of understanding that **** happens in life, you must move on, they harp on it 24 hours a day on how they were wronged and we wonder why "millennials" are the way they are. Well it's because we're raising them to be that way. Sports is no different. Used to be a way to teach kids to get up, try again, overcome the odds. Now it's just bitch, bitch bitch. Complain and blame, complain and blame. Right on down to the 4 year olds playing Tball. I'm going to quit before I really rant.

    This is probably the saltiest I've been after a win in a while LOL
     
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  16. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    Somebody has to tell that goof defenders cannot put their hands on the necks of OL. The second one might be iffy but the first one was not.
     
  17. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    If that goofball Goober didn't harp on that incessantly last night folks wouldn't be crying about it still today. :rolleyes: The Lions had plenty of opportunities to put us away last night and they didn't/couldn't.
     
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  18. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    I recall last night after a TD Bak was standing in the end zone minding his own business and some loin player knocked him over below the knees from behind!
     
  19. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I think you know I agree with you and BTW, that egg you tossed at my face last night, just missed! ;)

    Here is the problem with the current state of the NFL and reviews, as I see it. Technology and evolution have made it basically impossible to go back to the way it was. Technology is going to make it very hard to pacify Las Vegas, the TV viewer and the tech geek fans that insist the game is officiated as perfect as possible. I don't have any clear cut solution, but I am starting to agree with you *insert drum roll* that while I do like correct calls being made, we all have to accept that when it comes to judgement calls, there is never going to be a "perfectly correct and consistent call", so *gulp* stop allowing judgement calls to be on the table as reviewable.

    The final observation is that of being at a game VS watching it on TV. I was at the game last night, saw a few of the typical bad calls (both ways), bitched/cheered about them and was ready for the next play. When the game was over, if you asked me "was the outcome influenced by the officiating?" I would have been oblivious to what the TV viewer had seen, as well as this opinion of the Refs blowing calls that may have cost the Lions the game and answered that questions with a "no, it was your typically officiated game. They missed a few calls each way, but it balanced out in the end" I guess what I am saying, there is a big difference between being at a game and watching a game on TV. The TV experience is a high tech one of hearing the commentary, seeing all the slowed down camera angles and beginning the debate on how each call has now changed the potential outcome of the game. Whereas the fan in the stands, they are trying to watch a much lower tech game, enjoying the sounds and sights of the game and probably getting a bit annoyed at all the stoppages in that experience due to the technology of the game taking over.
     
  20. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    I must be in the minority because I kinda like the white uniforms once in a while. :coffee:
     
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  21. Cheese Headed Monster

    Cheese Headed Monster Cheesehead

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    I LOVED this win. This is what I was wanting. Win by playing smart and sound. Even with turnovers i liked the offense. We controlled the clock and kept the lions from getting more chances. A good division win
     
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  22. Cheese Headed Monster

    Cheese Headed Monster Cheesehead

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    Also I NEVER would want anyone hurt. But from a football standpoint when G-mo went down i knew it was going to actually help the offense. Dude cant catch. Not sure what happened. Also Lewis should get majority of Grahams snaps
     
  23. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Someone might have already pointed this out, but we might have Bahk to thank for the penalties on Flowers. Evidently, Bahk talked to the officials about Flowers technique of jamming him with his hand to his throat or face. :tup:

    GREEN BAY – Before the first penalty, David Bakhtiari approached umpire Jeff Rice, frustrated, confused and downright incredulous, and asked a simple but potentially game-altering question.

    All night, Detroit Lions defensive end Trey Flowers used the same move against the Green Bay Packers’ All-Pro left tackle. Flowers would jam his hands high and in, near Bakhtiari’s chin strap. Whether Flowers’ hands were at Bakhtiari’s neck and face area or not was perhaps open to perspective.

    Bakhtiari, naturally a little biased, thought there was no doubt.

    “I went over to the ref,” Bakhtiari recalled in a corner of the Packers locker room, before slipping out into the night after his team’s 23-22 comeback win Monday, “I said, ‘Hey, are we not calling hands to the face again? Because the past three plays, I’ve been staring at the sky.’ And he’s like, you know, he’s not looking at my side, but I at least made him aware.”
     
  24. swhitset

    swhitset Cheesehead

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    Agreed I am rewatching the game right now... refs were terrible.
     
  25. DarkHelmet

    DarkHelmet Cheesehead

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    Studs:

    Williams. Great game. Great presence of mind and discipline on the non-TD. He can run with power, he can catch, he can block. Not as quick as Jones, but he proved to me he deserves roughly equal touches.

    Rodgers. A couple of those throws were insane. Running to convert on a crucial third down. Should have had TDs on both the Jones drop and the Shepard face bounce/interception.

    Marcedes Lewis. A couple of big catches. He should be getting paid more than Graham.

    Lazard. Clutch, clutch catch for the TD. He's got size, and attitude. Love that he took it right into the body of the DB on that midfield sideline play. "No, I'm not skittering out of bounds -- I'm gonna hit you! Stop me if you can!" We need a whole lot more of that.

    Fackrell. Made some key tackles.

    The Smiths. The free agency acquisition of these guys keeps getting validated. Easily worth the money so far. Without the Smiths we're more likely 3-3 rather than 5-1.

    Crosby. Perfect night on a night when he needed to be perfect.

    Scott. We should not take him for granted.

    O-line: got the job done

    The brain trust: LaFleur, Pettine, etc. Good game plan. Kept the guys in it with some salvage work when the momentum was all Detroit. Excellent clock management. Not to bash McCarthy, but it's clear to me that LaFleur & his staff are better with the clock. Both end of half and end of game.

    Duds:

    The ESPN crew. The announcers were mostly bad, adding little, getting stuff wrong, and then harping on a 10 yard penalty. They also showed little curiosity about calls that could have gone the Packers' way and didn't like the goal line Detroit TD, the possibility of the opening flea-flicker actually being incomplete, various other borderline calls.

    Jones. Great game last week. Bad game this week. The fumble wasn't egregious -- good defensive play and sometimes it just happens. The dropped TD was worse, IMO. No excuse not to catch that.

    Shepard. No details necessary. I liked Lazard better than Shepard based on pre-season anyway. IMO Lazard should absolutely be ahead of Shepard on the depth chart. Maybe ahead of Kumerow and Allison, too.

    Allison. I like the guy, but he just doesn't make contested catches very often. That means he's not a slot receiver and probably not a starter at all. He's depth.

    Refs. A couple questionable calls in both directions. Two different rulings on the Lions goal line TD. Probably missed a PI call against the Packers, though PI is now a lot like holding: you could probably call it on nearly every play if you wanted to.

    Feels good to get back to beating the Lions! 5-1 for a first year head coach and our number 1 receiver missing important games? We are very well positioned.
     
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