Packers trade Damarious Randall to Browns

[HardRightEdge]

I love saying "I told you so." This has TT being an "advisor" written all over it.

This is about as un-Thompson as you can get.

 

[Dantés]

I guess my point is that there were probably better ways to look for a new backup QB than trading our best player at a position of weakness. I know he was inconsistent, but Randall really did make great strides last year.

If Rodgers were 39 instead of 34 and we were really sold on Kizer as a successor, I could get on board with this. But that's not the situation here.

I think that if they were intent on moving on from Randall due to locker room issues and inconsistencies on the field, it made sense to deal him and address another issue on the roster. It isn’t as though they’re done with the corner position.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Don't know if it's been posted but we got Deshon Kizer, a guy who I believe would've been a 2nd rounder for us in 2017. Yes he didn't do hardly anything in Cleveland but he didn't have McCarthy. McCarthy is the QB guru. He's good insurance I think by mid-season if Aaron ends up on the IR a 4th time. Definite upgrade from Hundley from what I saw of both last year and Kizer in college at ND. This definitely changes every mock draft I believe, and it changes Green Bay's draft board as well. Good mood by Guttenkunst.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I almost view this move as Gute trying to step out of TT's shadows and saying "I'm going to do things my way". After all it is giving up on one of TT's #1 picks and most likely Hundley as well. Obviously, this wasn't the direct motivation for the move, but wouldn't surprise me if BG wants to show everyone that he is running the show.

 

[Dantés]

Packers also swap picks with the Browns in the 4th and 5th rounds. So now they have the first picks in those rounds.

 

[OldSchool101]

Initially it sounds like a poor deal. There’s more than meets the eye here. As I said a few days ago, Cleveland has been a loyal trade partner (think big brother alliance for a minute) and I expected them to let us trade up later rounds, that part was not a surprise. If you’re going to partner, this is the team you want to shack up with right now. They own this draft.

We also might not be done trading with them, this could be a precursor to more trades both before, during or after the draft. We don’t know what’s been talked about behind closed doors.
Im sniffing and something don’t smell right. Were not getting the whole story, maybe on purpose we’re being spoon fed.

 

[hallzi43]

I almost view this move as Gute trying to step out of TT's shadows and saying "I'm going to do things my way". After all it is giving up on one of TT's #1 picks and most likely Hundley as well. Obviously, this wasn't the direct motivation for the move, but wouldn't surprise me if BG wants to show everyone that he is running the show.

think you are probably over analyzing it. randall honestly isnt that good and you have to believe there are moves coming down the line that secure our cb core whether be it draft/fa/trade. kizer offers a more controllable salary than hundley while also having probably more upside. hopefully he doesnt matter all that much anyways. we increase the value of our picks as well in case we need to trade up somewhere. all positive starting points to the offseason.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

think you are probably over analyzing it. randall honestly isnt that good and you have to believe there are moves coming down the line that secure our cb core whether be it draft/fa/trade. kizer offers a more controllable salary than hundley while also having probably more upside. hopefully he doesnt matter all that much anyways. we increase the value of our picks as well in case we need to trade up somewhere. all positive starting points to the offseason.

I wasn't analyzing the move itself, that already has been hashed and rehashed here in 7 pages of posts. Plus, nobody really knows how this move will play out over time. All I am saying is this isn't a TT like move, getting rid of 2 of "his own", so the underlying motivation of a move like this could be BG trying to do things his way.

 

[OldSchool101]

we increase the value of our picks as well in case we need to trade up somewhere. all positive starting points to the offseason.

This is the direction I thought we’d go. Just not in this fashion. We’re a long ways from being done. The higher the pick, the sweeter the carrot
As one example now our 4th Comp and 5th moves us all the way into the top of the 4th for three 4th rounders. Day 3: 1st, 9th and 14th. Just an example of leverage and still leaving 6 more picks afterwards.

 

[HardRightEdge]

After about 10 seconds of surprise, I find this kind of ho-hum upon a little consideration.

It looks like a trade between GMs who had a guy from the prior regime that is not in their plans. Gutekunst and Dorsey know each other very well. They're helping each other solve a problem.

Randall has had issues, performance and otherwise, and he's in his contract year. Can you say he's core to championship contention? Despite Packer fans stuffing his name into the Pro Bowl ballot box, the answer is "no".
He's OK off and on, but he's nobody's #1 corner. Perhaps Gutekunst has taken my advice in thinking about rebuilding this roster as a two year project, maybe three, and it should be understood that giving Randall a second contract after this year is not a very good idea.

This could be just dumping an attitude problem. Or it could be the first step in a rebuilding process. The next move might give the clear signal.

Maybe Dorsey sees Randall converting to free safety, his natural position. If so, Packer fans will howl if he actually makes the Pro Bowl like other departing D-backs, but that's neither here nor there.

So the question now is who plays corner in 2018? Or is that the question? Perhaps the question is who will be playing corner in 2019 or 2020?

From the Packer's side, the pick swap is about what you would expect in a trade., i.e., not much. Kizer's a bust, and taking him off Dorsey's hands may be the kicker as much as the first consideration. I would envision a competition with Hundley for the backup job. I would not rule out Hundley winning and Kizer hitting the road.

On the cap front, keep in mind the Packers are on the hook for the remaining $1 mil of Randall's signing bonus. The cap savings is $1,5 million. Kizer's cap hit with the Packers, after Cleveland absorbs his signing bonus, is $690,000 this year. The $810,000 savings will buy the best brat-and-a-beer in free agency.

By the way, what was true yesterday is true today: there is still insufficient cap space to spend on a vet CB or any FA of any merit.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

After about 10 seconds of surprise, I find this kind of ho-hum upon a little consideration.

It looks like a trade between GMs who had a guy from the prior regime that is not in their plans. Gutekunst and Dorsey know each other very well. They're helping each other solve a problem.

Randall has had issues, performance and otherwise, and he's in his contract year. Can you say he's core to championship contention? Despite Packer fans stuffing his name into the Pro Bowl ballot box, the answer is "no".
He's OK off and on, but he's nobody's #1 corner. Perhaps Gutekunst has taken my advice in thinking about rebuilding this roster as a two year project, maybe three, and it should be understood that giving Randall a second contract after this year is not a very good idea.

This could be just dumping an attitude problem. Or it could be the first step in a rebuilding process. The next move might give the clear signal.

Maybe Dorsey sees Randall converting to free safety, his natural position. If so, Packer fans will howl if he actually makes the Pro Bowl like other departing D-backs, but that's neither here nor there.

So the question now is who plays corner in 2018? Or is that the question? Perhaps the question is who will be playing corner in 2019 or 2020?

From the Packer's side, the pick swap is about what you would expect in a trade., i.e., not much. Kizer's a bust, and taking him off Dorsey's hands may be the kicker as much as the first consideration. I would envision a competition with Hundley for the backup job. I would not rule out Hundley winning and Kizer hitting the road.

On the cap front, keep in mind the Packers are on the hook for the remaining $1 mil of Randall's signing bonus. The cap savings is $1,5 million. Kizer's cap hit with the Packers, after Cleveland absorbs his signing bonus, is $690,000 this year. The $810,000 savings will buy the best brat-and-a-beer in free agency.

By the way, what was true yesterday is true today: there is still insufficient cap space to spend on a vet CB or any FA of any merit.

If Kizer is a bust than what is Hundley? 3rd year in the system an he flops like that? Either Hundley was the problem last year or Mac can only graduate the Valedictorian at QB College. Management seems to and I think right so believe Hundley is the problem by making this trade. Also for all the talking heads saying we're taking the kid out of UTSA, I truly believe if not for this trade we would've drafted QB at #14 this year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Don't know if it's been posted but we got Deshon Kizer, a guy who I believe would've been a 2nd rounder for us in 2017. Yes he didn't do hardly anything in Cleveland but he didn't have McCarthy. McCarthy is the QB guru. He's good insurance I think by mid-season if Aaron ends up on the IR a 4th time. Definite upgrade from Hundley from what I saw of both last year and Kizer in college at ND. This definitely changes every mock draft I believe, and it changes Green Bay's draft board as well. Good mood by Guttenkunst.

McCarthy was the QB guru years ago. That ended when the CBA killed the QB camp. You could sing that to "Video Killed the Radio Star", but I digress. And when you're head coach, you've got a whole lot of additional concerns than when you're OC or QB coach.

Much was made of Van Pelt's departure despite Rodgers wanting him around. I don't think his job was to be Rodgers' wing man. I don't think he had much to add to Rodgers mastery of the position. His primary job was having Hundley ready to play. He didn't do that. The guy who's job was to be the guru was un-gurulike.

 

[OldSchool101]

He's OK off and on, but he's nobody's #1 corner. Perhaps Gutekunst has taken my advice in thinking about rebuilding this roster as a two year project, maybe three, and it should be understood that giving Randall a second contract after this year is not a very good idea.

Same thing I was thinking. It’s probably going to take 2018 and another offseason to get the personnel Pettine envisions.
This was staying true to form of moving up the board. I do think there will be more moving around between rounds 1-4, either to acquire more picks (trading back slightly in the 1st) or to move earlier into a round, up a round etc..
we’re just getting started.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If Kizer is a bust than what is Hundley? 3rd year in the system an he flops like that? Either Hundley was the problem last year or Mac can only graduate the Valedictorian at QB College. Management seems to and I think right so believe Hundley is the problem by making this trade. Also for all the talking heads saying we're taking the kid out of UTSA, I truly believe if not for this trade we would've drafted QB at #14 this year.

They may both be busts. I couldn't say which or neither will win the backup job. I don't think either would win many games if Rodgers goes down again.

I think you exaggerate Kizer's value in this trade and the importance of this trade in general.

I get it. It's a shock that the Packers would actually make a vet trade of or for anybody! And all this pent up deal starvation! But just because something is shocking doesn't make it especially important.

Picture this scenario: Cleveland trades for Taylor to be the vet hold-down-the-fort guy for a year or two. Cleveland then drafts their franchise hope for the future. They have no use for Kizer and cut him. The Packers sign Kizer off the street to a $690,000 one year deal. Would you have been all that excited them? Or would you just reckon he's brought in to compete? This is just about the same thing.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Same thing I was thinking. It’s probably going to take 2018 and another offseason to get the personnel Pettine envisions.

It's not just the defense. Nelson and Cobb are overpaid, declining, and in contract years. I'm not sure which is worse, an extension proving to be good money thrown after bad or being forced to play these guys in 2019 because of those extensions rather than taking the cap or picks over the next two years to refresh the position. I guess those options are the same thing.

Now, if you milk the last of what's left out of Justice and have the Yankees pay his $7 million salary, then you have a proposition. Oh, wait, that's a different movie.

 

[speakhands]

To anyone feeling nostalgic for Ted Thompson:

Remember when we drafted Damarious Randall when ERIC KENDRICKS was on the board? I remember that every time Kendricks lights us up when we play Minny.

Also, we chose Randall and Rollins over PJ Williams.

 

[speakhands]

Fuller was transition tagged guaranteing him just short of $13 mil.

[/QUOTE]

Gosh darn it, I keep forgetting he got tagged.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

We currently have 20 mill in cap space and may alter contracts (Cobb, Nelson, Matthews) to free more. I think they're going to make a move for both Wilkerson and a CB. Gotta win now.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

They may both be busts. I couldn't say which or neither will win the backup job. I don't think either would win many games if Rodgers goes down again.

I think you exaggerate Kizer's value in this trade and the importance of this trade in general.

I get it. It's a shock that the Packers would actually make a vet trade of or for anybody! And all this pent up deal starvation! But just because something is shocking doesn't make it especially important.

Picture this scenario: Cleveland trades for Taylor to be the vet hold-down-the-fort guy for a year or two. Cleveland then drafts their franchise hope for the future. They have no use for Kizer and cut him. The Packers sign Kizer off the street to a $690,000 one year deal. Would you have been all that excited them? Or would you just reckon he's brought in to compete? This is just about the same thing.

I saw Kizer at Notre Dame, every start he made, every time he came off the bench. He should not have left after his Jr. year. He should've stayed for his Senior year and come out this year. I suspect he left cause he would've been a 3rd round pick in this year's draft and someone told him if he went last year he'd be a 1. Not making it in Cleveland doesn't make anyone a bust. It's like that line from that bonus scene in Everybody's All-American. The Browns are so f***ed up even the stripes on their socks are goin' the wrong. Is Kizer better than Hundley? I can truly say the answer to that is YES. How much better? I don't know. Is Kizer the QB of the future, I'm not sure, I'd have to see him get playing time with the 1s in a competitive game situation before I could say that. I just know based on what I saw of Hundley, he's NOT the guy. You're right about the trade, in so far as we probably could've gotten Kizer after cut downs and probably for a vets minimum, but with the trade we moved up in 2 rounds. I look at it that Guttenkunst stole Dorsey blind.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

We currently have 20 mill in cap space and may alter contracts (Cobb, Nelson, Matthews) to free more. I think they're going to make a move for both Wilkerson and a CB. Gotta win now.

Gotta re-structure Clay definitely, I think over the last 3 years he's become just a guy at his position. Cobb probably needs to be traded or cut at the most cap friendly time. I think Jordy though is still a 1.5. He's not elite, but he's better than a "guy".

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's definitely way too early to evaluate Gutekunst based solely on this trade. There's absolutely no doubt that the current depth chart at cornerback consisting of Josh Hawkins, Kevin King, Lenzy Pipkins, Quinten Rollins and Herb Waters is alarming though. The Packers better make some moves in free agency and the draft to improve the talent level at the position otherwise the defense will once again get torched by decent pass offenses.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

It's definitely way too early to evaluate Gutekunst based solely on this trade. There's absolutely no doubt that the current depth chart at cornerback consisting of Josh Hawkins, Kevin King, Lenzy Pipkins, Quinten Rollins and Herb Waters is alarming though. The Packers better make some moves in free agency and the draft to improve the talent level at the position otherwise the defense will once again get torched by decent pass offenses once again.

The silver lining with the trade is that we are all but certain to aggressively address the position now. If the point of the move was to get rid of a nuisance as part of the process, I'm all for it. He seemed like he could be a better safety, though he was never consistently good at CB so I'm not completely sold.

I'll let everything play out before jumping to conclusions. Swapping those two draft picks is more valuable than it originally appeared. Kizer is intriguing as a developmental QB, but I seriously question the ability of McCarthy to develop such a raw QB. If it comes down to it, we need a better option as a backup.

 

[Mondio]

The only way I can rationalize this trade is the Packers and the new coaches did not like what they had in Randall. They pieced him together mentally to get thru much of last year, but didn't want to go thru it again. There has to be more to the plan, because this move by itself seems like we got the short end. He may have been a bit of a headcase, but he showed he could play. Instead of 2 holes plus capable backups at a very important position, now we got rid of our best one and have 3 holes in the defensive backfield. There has to be a plan besides the draft, unless we're picking 5 DB's and hoping to hit on 2-3 of them and have King get healthy and make a big jump.

I'm not much of a QB evaluator, but Kizer looked like a worse version of Hundley. 2 times last year I thought to myself, at least Hundley was only a 5th rounder. WHen we played Tampa and the Browns, i was thankful our QB was only a 5th rounder and not a #1 and 2nd rounder like theirs, because they looked about the same.

 

[bigbubbatd]

So I have seen conflicting reports about the picks.

1. Packers get 4.1 and 5.1 and browns gets Packers 4th and 5th (not sure which ones)
2. Packers get browns 4.1 and browns get Packers 5th

Which one is it? Would be nice if the picks we swapped were our comp picks

 

[Mondio]

I thought we just swapped 4's and 5's, so we moved up in 4 and 5 and they move back. but i haven't seen anything official