Lazard Situation...

tynimiller

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Honestly this is growing enough to warrant a thread for folks to post updates to.

Back in March, Green Bay placed a second round tender on Lazard in order to not expose him to the open market and risk losing him for nothing. This tender is worth just shy of $4M if signed.

No team has placed an offer to Lazard making a possible second in return should GB not choose to beat/match....has left us waiting for Lazard to sign or GB to possibly sign him to a longer deal than the one year tender.

Lazard technically under the current CBA has only until June 15th to sign the tender OR the Packers legally could choose to reduce Lazard's base salary to the minimum $935,000 and convert the remaining $3.05 million into a signing bonus. If they wanted they could add four void years according to many and choose to prorate that amount, opening up between $2M and $3M in cap space.

Many speculate Lazard of course wants paid given the WR market value most places his value at about $7/8M a year - or double what this tender is worth and would cause him to take on risk of injury and be left with nothing in an offseason facing UFA. The timing of this all also makes it interesting for Lazard - in one hand he can argue look GB you have no one when Cobb retires most likely after this year with any measurable experience in general or with AR except me...do you really want me to hit UFA next season or count on a collection of proven nothings in Watson, Doubs, Toure, Winfree, Taylor, Rodgers and Davis to provide things for you?

On the flip side GB can argue right back he hasn't produced to a level they would be smart at throwing #1 money at for sure but arguably #2 money as well....both sides have to be willing to wiggle to make this logically work for both - adding insurance of additional years to Lazard, but also not robbing him of his ability to maybe get one big contract in his career - while also not tying GB to a bad contract for a guy that is clearly a WR3 type but beyond that isn't known, and not too mention is HIGH on a couple young guys and could see Watkins light it up with Rodgers and want to stay here as long as AR is....

Mandatory minicamp started today 6/7/2022 and he wasn't there....

8 more days till GB could play hardball and take money from him....I don't envision it coming to that...but it is legal and possible.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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All signs again except for simply not signing the tender point towards this isn't going to end with Lazard not playing this year for GB.....it is only a matter of under what deal/agreement.

My buddy wondered if this is some Russ Ball magic cap stuff by purposefully waiting till after the 15th time frame, lowering his base salary and maybe then agreeing to a long term deal? Any cap gurus know if this is a feasible possibility? @captainWIMM
 
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I was going to say something that felt like the spirit of “Red” from
“That 70’s Show”. :tup: But I don’t have enough info

If it has to do with wanting a big pay raise? He needs to perform first. Because if that’s an issue I like the idea of trading him in and adding $$ for Julio ;)

If it has to do with helping the team with Cap space? God bless him I like Lazard. I think
 
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McKnowledge

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Seems to me there is some much needed maturation that Lazard must access quickly before he derails his career.

I think the arrival of Watson, Doubs, and Watkins has revealed some insecurities within Lazard.

Another example of entitlement before qualifying, Lazard is listening to the wrong people.

The WR hierarchy is wide open.

He should show up, put in the work, perform consistently, and hit free agency with a better updated resume.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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Seems to me there is some much needed maturation that Lazard must access quickly before he derails his career.

I think the arrival of Watson, Doubs, and Watkins has revealed some insecurities within Lazard.

Another example of entitlement before qualifying, Lazard is listening to the wrong people.

The WR hierarchy is wide open.

He should show up, put in the work, perform consistently, and hit free agency with a better updated resume.

It is purely a hunch but I think Lazard doesn't want to go elsewhere and play out the prime of his next few years at least with #12. The issue is GB and him coming together at a figure is the hold up IMO. I still think a multi-year deal gets done of some type before June 15th...unless the salary cap saving catch in the CBA is really in play...then maybe after.
 

Zartan

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Reminds me of Javon Walker in a way.
 

McKnowledge

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It is purely a hunch but I think Lazard doesn't want to go elsewhere and play out the prime of his next few years at least with #12. The issue is GB and him coming together at a figure is the hold up IMO. I still think a multi-year deal gets done of some type before June 15th...unless the salary cap saving catch in the CBA is really in play...then maybe after.
I am sure Lazard would prefer to have his cake and eat it too.

Nice deal, long term, and #12 throwing him darts.

Reality is that he's turning 27 this season.

It would be prudent to play the year out, or perform exceptionally the first half of the season.

I think Lazard is betting on himself and I really can't fault him.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I had to laugh at his agents statement;

“Allen’s total focus is on having the best possible season he can have as a player & helping the Packers win the Lombardi Trophy. Everything he is doing is to further those objectives.” Right out of the Aaron Rodgers playbook.

I call Bulls hit. How does not showing up for OTA's and now mandatory practices support that statement? If Lazard wants to increase his market value, he would be smart to sign the one year tender, play on a team where the WR room is weak enough, that he is guaranteed a starting job, with one of the best QB's in the league.

Sure, Lazard can block, but as a WR, he's at best a #3 and on many teams, parked on the bench.
 

captainWIMM

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Lazard technically under the current CBA has only until June 15th to sign the tender OR the Packers legally could choose to reduce Lazard's base salary to the minimum $935,000 and convert the remaining $3.05 million into a signing bonus.

Actually the Packers could reduce Lazard's salary to $935K while not having to pay him another cent on June 15th. Here's the section in the CBA regulating it:

In the event that a Restricted Free Agent has not signed a Player Contract with a Club within the Signing Period in the League Year following the expiration of his last Player Contract, and if the Prior Club has not withdrawn the Qualifying Offer, the Prior Club shall be the only Club with which the player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract for that League Year. If the player’s Qualifying Offer is greater than 110% of the 52 player’s prior-year Paragraph 5 Salary (with all other terms of his prior year contract carried forward unchanged), the Club may withdraw the Qualifying Offer on June 15 and retain its rights under the preceding sentence, so long as the Club immediately tenders the player a one year Player Contract of at least 110% of his prior-year Paragraph 5 Salary (with all other terms of his prior year contract carried forward unchanged) (the “June 15 Tender”). Notwithstanding the foregoing, for any Restricted Free Agent subject to the Right of First Refusal Only Tender under Subsection 2(b)(i)(1) above who has not signed a Player Contract with a Club within the Signing Period, in order to be subject to the June 15 Tender, the Prior Club must by June 1 tender to such Restricted Free Agent a one-year Player Contract of at least 110% of his prior-year Paragraph 5 Salary (with all other terms of his prior-year contract carried forward unchanged) or extend the Subsection 2(b)(i)(1) Tender, whichever is greater (the “June 1 Tender”).

My buddy wondered if this is some Russ Ball magic cap stuff by purposefully waiting till after the 15th time frame, lowering his base salary and maybe then agreeing to a long term deal? Any cap gurus know if this is a feasible possibility? @captainWIMM

The Packers can sign Lazard to a long-term deal until July 15th. They could reduce his cap hit for this season by doing so, but not under the $935K he would count against the cap if they decide to exercise their option mentioned above.
 

Mondio

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Pretty sure Rodgers didn't write the book on it. But some can't see anything any other way and it's becoming glaringly obvious. Players have been doing this since I started paying attention to the NFL even before FA was thing.
 
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tynimiller

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I told my buddy I could envision Gute and Company wanting as many minutes spent with Watson, Watkins, Doubs, Davis, Winfree and Rodgers before they make the decision on just how comfortable they are with a future that most likely doesn't involve Lazard if they don't sign him to a two or three year deal that seems to no doubt be what he's wanting them to consider.

I mean it's one of those things where the two sides are gambling some.....

Say Lazard gets offered like a three year 5.5M/Year deal with like 12 of it guaranteed.....he has a near or at 1,000 yard 2022 season with 6+ TDs....in this WR market he is worth $10M easily a season.

Say GB doesn't offer anything and forces him to play on the tender (to whichever figure it ends up) and he balls out....Watson and Doubs look like rookie wideouts....now GB is going to be forced to pay him like MVS at least got or better to keep him.

The timing of Lazard's tender and upcoming UFA year just isn't good....if it could have hit like this a year earlier or a year later it would have been so much easier to handle. Year later, we know more of what we have with Watson/Doubs/Toure and we get to see if next steps are taken by Rodgers/Winfree or Taylor...and honestly perhaps even if Sammy fits here and wants to stay. Timing coming a year earlier, Davante is still here and gobbles up a lot of targets and chances from Lazard last year and this past off season we sign him to a much more team friendly deal.

From another thread but fits in this one for Lazard as it speaks specifically to him.
 

sschind

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Personally I don't think having a great QB throwing them the ball means much to many people. Its 90% about the money to 90% of them and to 9% of the rest money is still probably the most important.
 

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From another thread but fits in this one for Lazard as it speaks specifically to him.
It wasn't too early to draft the WR's that they drafted IMO. They lost Adams and he was the only starting caliber WR on the team. As far as Lazard goes, I think they know what they have and the 2nd round tag might overpay him (in their eyes) a bit, but will give them one more year to really know his worth as a full time starter, if that is what he ends up being.

I agree on your point of wanting to have time with Rodgers and all of his WR's, to see if giving Lazard a longer term deal would be smart. Unfortunately, with Rodgers not showing up for OTA's and only being in the 3 mandatory days this week, they will have limited dated to go off of, before that 6/15 date comes along.
 

kevans74

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It wasn't too early to draft the WR's that they drafted IMO. They lost Adams and he was the only starting caliber WR on the team. As far as Lazard goes, I think they know what they have and the 2nd round tag might overpay him (in their eyes) a bit, but will give them one more year to really know his worth as a full time starter, if that is what he ends up being.

I agree on your point of wanting to have time with Rodgers and all of his WR's, to see if giving Lazard a longer term deal would be smart. Unfortunately, with Rodgers not showing up for OTA's and only being in the 3 mandatory days this week, they will have limited dated to go off of, before that 6/15 date comes along.
I think you're right

Lazard is a good dude, but he went undrafted for a reason

I don't think he's close to a Numer 1 WR in rhe NFL. A passable Number 2 as a short term option? Sure but not a Number 1

Lazard should try to get the highest contract he can , like MVS, I can't blame him

But the Packers FO would be wise to not overpay him
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I think you're right

Lazard is a good dude, but he went undrafted for a reason

I don't think he's close to a Numer 1 WR in rhe NFL. A passable Number 2 as a short term option? Sure but not a Number 1

Lazard should try to get the highest contract he can , like MVS, I can't blame him

But the Packers FO would be wise to not overpay him
Agree and as Captain pointed out, Lazard has 1 more week to sign the tender or the Packers can reduce his pay down to vet minimum.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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It wasn't too early to draft the WR's that they drafted IMO. They lost Adams and he was the only starting caliber WR on the team. As far as Lazard goes, I think they know what they have and the 2nd round tag might overpay him (in their eyes) a bit, but will give them one more year to really know his worth as a full time starter, if that is what he ends up being.

I agree on your point of wanting to have time with Rodgers and all of his WR's, to see if giving Lazard a longer term deal would be smart. Unfortunately, with Rodgers not showing up for OTA's and only being in the 3 mandatory days this week, they will have limited dated to go off of, before that 6/15 date comes along.

You missed the point I was making. I was merely saying the timing of the Lazard situation from both sides (him and GB) were a year off both ways would be better. Nothing I said defended or made the point it was too early to draft WRs.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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I think you're right

Lazard is a good dude, but he went undrafted for a reason

I don't think he's close to a Numer 1 WR in rhe NFL. A passable Number 2 as a short term option? Sure but not a Number 1

Lazard should try to get the highest contract he can , like MVS, I can't blame him

But the Packers FO would be wise to not overpay him

I haven't read anyone on this site or in the media or anywhere that believes Lazard is a 1. This has never been part of the discussion.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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You missed the point I was making. I was merely saying the timing of the Lazard situation from both sides (him and GB) were a year off both ways would be better. Nothing I said defended or made the point it was too early to draft WRs.
Well I think they should have drafted several WR's in the past 3 years, it that is any help. ;) Gute got caught with his pants down and the cupboard pretty bare. I also have to wonder if they knew they weren't going to be able to resign Davante. Sounds like his decision not to resign was one he had made a long time ago, at least in his and A-rods minds.
 

ARPackFan

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Agree and as Captain pointed out, Lazard has 1 more week to sign the tender or the Packers can reduce his pay down to vet minimum.

IMO, that would be a d*ck move by the Packers that would negatively impact any negotiations. Why risk injury for $965K when he does not want to sign for for 1 year at almost $4M? If the Packers reduce the tender down to vet minimum, he has until 4:00 pm EST, on the Tuesday following the 10th week of the season to sign the tender and still get an accrued season becoming a UFA in 2023.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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IMO, that would be a d*ck move by the Packers that would negatively impact any negotiations. Why risk injury for $965K when he does not want to sign for for 1 year at almost $4M? If the Packers reduce the tender down to vet minimum, he has until 4:00 pm EST, on the Tuesday following the 10th week of the season to sign the tender and still get an accrued season becoming a UFA in 2023.
While I sort of agree with you, without knowing any of the facts, one might have cause to say that what Lazard is currently doing is a d*ck move. The Packers so far appear to be following the required steps to put a 2nd round tender on a guy that began in the NFL as an UDFA. If he doesn't sign it, the rules that were agreed upon between the Owners and Players, allows them to reduce the tender to vet minimum. Again, I can't say for sure that it is what is happening to this point. However, just in general, it seems like contracts and the agreed upon rules for contracts are turning into meaningless pieces of paper.
 

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At this point he's using whatever leverage he has because once TC starts and fines can be levied doesn't have much anymore. Now is the time to use it if you can. We'll see where it ends up. He may be overvaluing himself, I don't know what he's asking for. GB might be playing games on a longer deal, I don't know what they've offered. I do think they both want to get something done and will by TC.
 

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I had to laugh at his agents statement;

“Allen’s total focus is on having the best possible season he can have as a player & helping the Packers win the Lombardi Trophy. Everything he is doing is to further those objectives.” Right out of the Aaron Rodgers playbook.

I call Bulls hit. How does not showing up for OTA's and now mandatory practices support that statement? If Lazard wants to increase his market value, he would be smart to sign the one year tender, play on a team where the WR room is weak enough, that he is guaranteed a starting job, with one of the best QB's in the league.

Sure, Lazard can block, but as a WR, he's at best a #3 and on many teams, parked on the bench.

He’ll play for Green Bay this year. He’s using what little leverage he has to try and get a better contract. Packers aren’t going to pull their offer so i don’t see the big deal in him not signing yet. So he missed OTAs; do you really think he needed the extra reps with Love at QB? OTAs, for him, are nothing more than an increased chance to hurt himself. If he sits out all of minicamp, then I’ll care. Until then, let the man try and do what he can to see if he can squeeze a few more bucks outta his employer.
 
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