Kicking The Fiscal "Can" Actual Numbers

tynimiller

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Many of you support the concept of kicking the fiscal can harder down the road than we already did this past season. This could be motivated by the desire to keep Aaron around, Davante or perhaps both. That's fine, however let's put forth some actual numbers beside what this "kicking of the can" down the road truly means. All the $50+M we moved around last year to make things "work" resulting in a failed playoff run have us presently paying numerous players well beyond their now expired contracts for years they won't even wear the uniform.

As I type this 2026 is the first year where we will not have a salary cap hit for players that don't even play for us....so there is your sliver of good news when speaking money.

Other tidbits that are good news is that the cap will continue to rise and grow with each year - however keep in mind that is league wide so while yes that helps us handle our issues it also further expands other teams options as well so relatively speaking it doesn't change us vs the rest of the league. Also we have some just ballooning contracts and massive dead money voided (Rodgers especially) set to come off over the next couple seasons which is good.

However, kicking the can down the road would mean more of the type of things which have us paying the following despite them not even on the team anymore or beyond when they will be...and this is NOT all of them just a few to paint the picture for you.

Kevin King - Green Bay will be taking cap hits for King in 2022 ($3M), 2023 ($750K), 2024 ($750,000), 2025 ($750,000)
Dean Lowry - Presently signed through end of 2022 season, BUT Green Bay will be taking cap hits on Lowry in 2023 ($1,866,000), 2024 and 2025 at $622,000
Billy Turner - Presently signed through 2022, but will take cap hits in 2023 of $1,742,500 and in 2024 of $890,000
Randall Cobb - Signed for the 2022 year, and even if we cut Green Bay will still take a cap hit in 2023 of $1,391,666

So you want to keep Rodgers, tag Adams - awesome...know that for such a fiscal move more of this type of stuff is going to occur...and you have zero right to complain when 2026 rolls around and we are still paying millions for players that have long since retired and are twenty pounds heavier on a beach somewhere.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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Few Articles on voided years and such. I know just enough to be deadly on cap discussions....however if you have an specific questions I'd tag @captainWIMM in your post as he probably is most familiar.



 

mradtke66

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So you want to keep Rodgers, tag Adams - awesome...know that for such a fiscal move more of this type of stuff is going to occur...and you have zero right to complain when 2026 rolls around and we are still paying millions for players that have long since retired and are twenty pounds heavier on a beach somewhere.

I'm one who generally doesn't like dead cap, but right now I'm fine with it.

First, 2020/2021 cap got messed up with covid and 2023 is set to explode with the new TV deal.

Second, when Rodgers retires (assuming we extend him this year), I presume we're going to have a bad year regardless. Even when Rodgers took over for Favre, 6-10, no. 9 pick.

Third, while I want us to win, I'd rather us crash and burn hard in a single year. Hovering around .500 is a recipe to be stuck at .500. Pats just did something similar--they pushed and pushed their cap out and 2020 was a brutal year for them. And in 2021, they're right back in the playoffs, dead cap largely moved on.

In short, yeah, it's not optimal, but the pain is temporary. It isn't equivalent to having a super high interest/balances on the credit card. It'll suck for a year, maybe two, and while we're sucking, we should be drafting high.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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I'm one who generally doesn't like dead cap, but right now I'm fine with it.

First, 2020/2021 cap got messed up with covid and 2023 is set to explode with the new TV deal.

Second, when Rodgers retires (assuming we extend him this year), I presume we're going to have a bad year regardless. Even when Rodgers took over for Favre, 6-10, no. 9 pick.

Third, while I want us to win, I'd rather us crash and burn hard in a single year. Hovering around .500 is a recipe to be stuck at .500. Pats just did something similar--they pushed and pushed their cap out and 2020 was a brutal year for them. And in 2021, they're right back in the playoffs, dead cap largely moved on.

In short, yeah, it's not optimal, but the pain is temporary. It isn't equivalent to having a super high interest/balances on the credit card. It'll suck for a year, maybe two, and while we're sucking, we should be drafting high.

I'd review the Patriots situation and you will see it wasn't nearly as bad as you may be remembering.

You are mixing up Dead cap money due to cuts or such like Keke situation or what may be Zadarius and such with voided money. Patriots did not push and push into multiple years millions like we have presently - let alone what we may do if we did it all over again.

Those thinking it could potentially be a one year crash and burn...I'm telling you Jordan Love could be the third coming of HOFers and he will be screwed due to the team Gute and such are all able to afford....you would need to hit not just on early draft picks but Day 3 draft picks.

It's fine if folks want to do it, but you're not signing up for just one dark "day" year...but years.
 

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I think the bite the bullet and reload scenario is best with the extra draft picks we’d get from Rodgers. Rookie contracts (even high picks like #9) are RELATIVELY cap friendly. I think we CAN compete strongly for a playoff berth next year with Jordan Love and those extra picks
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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I think the bite the bullet and reload scenario is best with the extra draft picks we’d get from Rodgers. Rookie contracts (even high picks like #9) are RELATIVELY cap friendly. I think we CAN compete strongly for a playoff berth next year with Jordan Love and those extra picks

You have more faith than I - we will see a dip for sure without Rodgers. Love could lead us to a .500 or so season and that could get us a wildcard but that is about as good as anyone could hope for and most likely is a futile hope.
 

ARPackFan

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All bills eventually come due. Tom Brady's contract with the Bucs has 3 void years (2023, 2024, and 2025) that allowed the team to minimize the cap hit in 2021 so that could make another run at a a SB. Brady has his money and the Bucs still have $32 Million on the books that will need to be accounted for over the next couple of years assuming he leaves the team after June 1.

https://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250/
 

sschind

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All bills eventually come due. Tom Brady's contract with the Bucs has 3 void years (2023, 2024, and 2025) that allowed the team to minimize the cap hit in 2021 so that could make another run at a a SB. Brady has his money and the Bucs still have $32 Million on the books that will need to be accounted for over the next couple of years assuming he leaves the team after June 1.

https://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250/
As I stated in another thread I think if Brady retires all 32 million will count against the cap in 2022. I'm not sure if June 1 has the same effect on retirement as it does a cut or trade. If so then yeah it would be split. Also, is any of his 9 million dollar 2022 salary or bonuses guaranteed? If any portion is that would count as well.
 

sschind

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Few Articles on voided years and such. I know just enough to be deadly on cap discussions....however if you have an specific questions I'd tag @captainWIMM in your post as he probably is most familiar.



I've read those articles and I'm not sure they even know. The third one even contradicts itself. In one paragraph (the one where they talk about you signing a contract for 10 million) they say that after 1 year the void years kick in and you count the remaining 4 all at once and then when they are talking about Brady they say the bucs are planning on accounting for Brady's bonus over 5 years (its really only 3)
 

mradtke66

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I'd review the Patriots situation and you will see it wasn't nearly as bad as you may be remembering.

You are mixing up Dead cap money due to cuts or such like Keke situation or what may be Zadarius and such with voided money. Patriots did not push and push into multiple years millions like we have presently - let alone what we may do if we did it all over again.

Those thinking it could potentially be a one year crash and burn...I'm telling you Jordan Love could be the third coming of HOFers and he will be screwed due to the team Gute and such are all able to afford....you would need to hit not just on early draft picks but Day 3 draft picks.

It's fine if folks want to do it, but you're not signing up for just one dark "day" year...but years.

Void years aren’t that magic. They are basically dummy years. A five year deal and they are cut early. It just happens the plan for a voidable year on a contract is planned from the beginning

Once a player is cut or released, the cap hit is due more or less immediately. No different if you cut a player with a 5 year, 50m signing bonus after year two. Rather than a hit of 10m per year, you “owe” the cap all 30 outstanding right now.

Now post June 1 tricks can let you spread that hit over two seasons, but that is it.

In short, once a player is cut, retired, traded, their remaining cap hit is only present for 1 year in most situations.
 
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tynimiller

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@Poppa San @longtimefan I'd delete this thread - it appears voided contracts are not as I understood...until confirmed or we see what changes once league year ends with the voided years this could cause more confusion than help.
 

Poppa San

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@Poppa San @longtimefan I'd delete this thread - it appears voided contracts are not as I understood...until confirmed or we see what changes once league year ends with the voided years this could cause more confusion than help.
I think there is good exchange so I'm letting it ride. @longtimefan can do as he wishes.
 

captainWIMM

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I think the bite the bullet and reload scenario is best with the extra draft picks we’d get from Rodgers. Rookie contracts (even high picks like #9) are RELATIVELY cap friendly. I think we CAN compete strongly for a playoff berth next year with Jordan Love and those extra picks

Love has shown absolutely nothing in limited playing time that makes me believe the Packers could get anywhere near making the playoffs with him starting next season.

All bills eventually come due. Tom Brady's contract with the Bucs has 3 void years (2023, 2024, and 2025) that allowed the team to minimize the cap hit in 2021 so that could make another run at a a SB. Brady has his money and the Bucs still have $32 Million on the books that will need to be accounted for over the next couple of years assuming he leaves the team after June 1.

https://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250/

As I stated in another thread I think if Brady retires all 32 million will count against the cap in 2022. I'm not sure if June 1 has the same effect on retirement as it does a cut or trade. If so then yeah it would be split. Also, is any of his 9 million dollar 2022 salary or bonuses guaranteed? If any portion is that would count as well.

The Bucs have actually the right to recoup $16 million of Brady's signing bonus because he retired at this point. His base salary for the 2022 season voided because of him retiring as well.
 

PackerDNA

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As far as the cap, isn't it a matter of when retirement papers are signed as opposed to when retirement is announced publicly?
 

thequick12

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Im not sure what kind of idoit gets rid of the back to back league mvp and unquestioned top 3 qb in the NFL...sht idk what kinda of idoit gets rid of the best wr in the league for that matter.. oh wait yeah I do the Lions did, forced him to retire, oh yeah and the texans did too

Hows that working out for em?

And MM has already gone on record with "were not idoits" so i highly doubt the Packers act like perenial basement dwellers and 2 of the most dysfunctional frachises in the league and get rid of their 2 best and 2 fhof players...anyway you slice it thats just not good buisness

I will say Adams asking for 30 million per is out of line when the current highest paid wr d. hopkins gets about 22 m per. Although i guess rethinking it maybe him asking for 30 m isnt out of line and its a good starting point to end up with a contract in the neighborhood of 25 m per which seems reasonable to me for both sides

The salary cap is an excuse for teams and owners that dont wanna spend money...there is always ways around it if you really want to aquire or keep a player

Cant help but think that if the Packers had just raised their offer above the vet minimum for odell beckham...it would be the packers playing in the super bowl. Had Rodgers had another wr with Adams like talent capable of beating man coverage quickly off the line. Those special teams blunders wouldnt have been enough.

The thing about the playoffs is everyone trys harder in the playoffs so what an average player got away with during the regular season they do not in the playoffs because that average player was already putting forth playoff effort in the regular season...

Its like that in the nba too...nobody plays defense all season and average players can score points but when the playoffs come around uh oh now a lot of players actually put forth effort on the sefensive end abd those average players cant do sht
 

sschind

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The Bucs have actually the right to recoup $16 million of Brady's signing bonus because he retired at this point. His base salary for the 2022 season voided because of him retiring as well.
There is always that option but how many teams really go after it? Maybe for 16 million the bad press is worth it.
 
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thequick12

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There is, however incentive to going after the bonus. If you recover some bonus, you lessen the cap hit.

Bush league or not, cap space is cap space.

You should apply for a job with the lions front office you could be the one to make their next fhof player retire early...

I get you recoup cap space i also get the cost in other players of top quality not wanting to play for you in the future is more damaging to your franchise
 

thequick12

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Ouch
 

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sschind

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Thats stuff the Lions do...you dont wanna be the lions, its bush league
There is, however incentive to going after the bonus. If you recover some bonus, you lessen the cap hit.

Bush league or not, cap space is cap space.
You should apply for a job with the lions front office you could be the one to make their next fhof player retire early...

I get you recoup cap space i also get the cost in other players of top quality not wanting to play for you in the future is more damaging to your franchise
You get cap relief but you risk alienating players. I've heard of teams doing it before but I've never heard whether or not they were successful. I'm guessing most teams don't think its worth the bad press and only consider it when the situation is dire. I don't know what the Bucs cap situation is like in 2022 but it may not be worth going after money from the GOAT after he just won you a Super Bowl.

Plus you have the whole other argument of the team can cut a player whenever they want why can't a player retire. I know that if a team cuts a player they can't recoup any guaranteed money but the argument of the one sidedness (or at least the appearance of one sidedness) of contracts becomes and issue tp some.
 

thequick12

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Imagine thinking you pointed something out that every single packer fan on earth already knows and thinking you're clever...

Haha not my post and i certainly didnt think i was clever for reposting it...as im sure ive said it in here numerous times before and never once thought i was christopher columbous

My point in reposting it was...Lets win a cluple before Rodgers is done and double up!!!
 
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