Jordy Nelson Vs Julio Jones

[Patriotplayer90]

True, but the Browns shouldn't be used as a measuring stick.

It's true that there were much better players that Cleveland could have selected, but a competent team likely wouldn't have turned those picks into Muhammed Wilkerson, Justin Houston, Richard Sherman, Harrison Smith, and Josh Norman. Jones was about as sure a thing as you could find at that point in the draft, and he's a complete game changer so I wouldn't have a problem with it.

For all of these people asking how many SBs they've won, how many have we won in 3 decades with 2 HOF QBs who we neither had to suck nor give up anything to acquire? That seems like a bigger waste to me.

 

[HardRightEdge]

To ask this question probably means not noticing that Nelson is still gimped up.

 

[HardRightEdge]

So, how many playoff appearances, let alone wins, does Atlanta have since they drafted Julio? nm I found it, 2 playoff appearances in his first 2 seasons with 1 win his 2nd year. Also, Cleveland screwed the pooch on their usage of the picks they got for moving down. Brandon Weeden?

There is a point to be made burined in there. Stafford is playing a lot better spreading the ball without Calvin Johnson. The defense can't focus on one go-to player; keeping everybody involved is keeping everybody engaged.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There is a point to be made burined in there. Stafford is playing a lot better spreading the ball without Calvin Johnson. The defense can't focus on one go-to player; keeping everybody involved is keeping everybody engaged.

This year's Falcons offense performs on a high level even when Julio doesn't though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This year's Falcons offense performs on a high level even when Julio doesn't though.

Or is that a function of the opposing defense?

Playing low/high zone on Goodson's side most of the day, after seeing him get burned in man by a less than fear-inspiring guy, presented opportunities that even Stafford would not have overlooked.

"Injuries are no excuse", as you put it repeatedly this past week, before backtracking.

I would agree at the margins situationally, but having to field Goodson is a bridge too far.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

"Injuries are no excuse", as you put it repeatedly this past week, before backtracking.

I would agree at the margins situationally, but having to field Goodson is a bridge too far.

I didn't backtrack on injuries not being an excuse. The Packers not having a better cornerback than Goodson should have lowered expectations entering the game though. That's on Thompson though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I didn't backtrack on injuries not being an excuse.

Uh, there was a post or two where you were pretty adamant. "Backtrack" might not be the right word. Let's say "softened" instead. How's that.

 

[PackerDNA]

Well, while the Falcons were able to draft an elite receiver by moving up in the top 10 overall it didn't work out that well for Atlanta, not making the playoffs for the last three seasons.

I don't agree with that line of thought at all. You pull the trigger on a trade to get a generational, all world player. That's it, end of story. Whether you make the playoffs or whatever has nothing to do with it, and takes nothing from the move.

 

[Half Empty]

Always love folks going with 'game, set, match', 'end of story', 'game over' and similar "I'm so right nobody can even discuss this any more" statements. Of course it's not the end of the story, or people wouldn't still be discussing it. WIMM may have addressed strictly not making the playoffs, but the more general question is 'how much is too much?', especially since many generational players don't end up playing that way. Ricky Williams and Hershel Walker come immediately to mind (and I'd throw in our own John Hadl, although he was a panic, 'need' trade rather than an exceptional talent). So, if five high draft choices is a fair price for Jones, leaving it more difficult to address the 52 other positions on the team, is there any higher limit that would be too much to consider the fact that they DID get Jones something less than the end of the story?

 

[RRyder]

I don't agree with that line of thought at all. You pull the trigger on a trade to get a generational, all world player. That's it, end of story. Whether you make the playoffs or whatever has nothing to do with it, and takes nothing from the move.

Ughhh. He's been the best reciever in the league for like 5 minutes. Hold off on the generational, all world player, type of talk. Just last season it'd be pretty easy to argue he wasn't in the top 3 WRs in the league. Hell. I'd argue hes not even the best WR from his own draft class up till this season. You're better then that generational talk.

Here's a point of reference for generational players in the league today.

Brady
Watt
Rodgers (maybe if he returns to form)
Mack (if he does continues on his trajectory)

Thats about it. (Notice how two of those players can or rather should be considered generational if conditions are met. Because ya know. Generational)

And yes whether you can even make the POs, in a team sport where quality depth is at a premium and teams have holes to fill every where, after making such a move with giving up so many picks definitely factors in to how successful it actually was to do so.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No doubt Jones is a really good WR in my mind, but that takes some big Kahunas to trade away those 5 picks for one guy that at the time was only projected to be really good. Also, using what the Browns did with the 5 picks as a measuring stick for it being a successful trade isn't really fair, this is the Browns we are talking about. Had the Browns not traded the pick, knowing the Browns they would not have had the fortune of drafting Jones, but used the pick on someone like Christian Ponder or Aldon Smith.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't agree with that line of thought at all. You pull the trigger on a trade to get a generational, all world player. That's it, end of story. Whether you make the playoffs or whatever has nothing to do with it, and takes nothing from the move.

Last time I checked the goal is to make the playoffs and not having the best receiver in the league.

 

[El Guapo]

I don't agree with that line of thought at all. You pull the trigger on a trade to get a generational, all world player. That's it, end of story. Whether you make the playoffs or whatever has nothing to do with it, and takes nothing from the move.

The key here is what was given up to pull the trigger, and that's why it's not end of story. The Falcons sent the Browns a first-round pick (No. 27), a second-round pick (No. 59) and a fourth-round pick (No. 124) in 2011, and also chipped in the No. 1 pick in 2012 (No. 22) and their No. 4 pick in 2012 (No. 118).

That's a staggering dowry to move up from #27 to #6. I'll bet you a wheel of cheese that those missing draft picks have hampered Atlanta's ability to make waves in the playoffs. Jones may end up being one of the greatest. But you can always double the greatest. Had Atlanta used those five picks strictly all on WRs, a competent general manager should have been able to get two really good WRs that would be more potent than one great one. You get better odds with more rolls of the dice.

A good recap of the move: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/8/30/9164545/julio-jones-falcons-browns-2011-draft-trade
Of course, the Browns bungled their riches as usual. At least Dallas parlayed their riches from the Hershall Walker trade into a dynasty.

 

[El Guapo]

To the OP's question, yeah I'd love to have Julio but think that our team has less holes because we didn't move out of our annual low first round pick position. I don't think that we would have the guys around Julio that we have around Jordy had we gone that route.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Had the Packers worked a similar trade to get Julio Jones and all things stayed equal, they would have given up:

1. Derrick Sherrod
2. Randall Cobb
3. Devon House
4. Nick Perry
5. Mike Daniels

Just putting the trade in perspective for Packer fans. While I like Julio Jones, no way am I giving up 5 guys for him and while Sherrod and House aren't still in GB, I'm happy with Cobb, Perry and Daniels.

 

[PackerDNA]

Last time I checked the goal is to make the playoffs and not having the best receiver in the league.

Wow, that was a cute and snappy answer. Too bad it didn't have a ****ing thing to do with the point.

 

[Half Empty]

Wow, that was a cute and snappy answer. Too bad it didn't have a ******* thing to do with the point.

Sure looks to me like you made it the point a while back

I don't agree with that line of thought at all. You pull the trigger on a trade to get a generational, all world player. That's it, end of story. Whether you make the playoffs or whatever has nothing to do with it, and takes nothing from the move.

 

[PackerDNA]

Man, some of you are dumber than ****ing rocks. Enjoy showing each other how stupid you are.

 

[El Guapo]

That's an adult response. Kudos to you.

 

[PackerDNA]

Man, some of you are dumber than ******* rocks. Enjoy showing each other how stupid you are.

LOL!!!! Now, those were some great comebacks! Sorry for the pissy attitude today folks- I'm sick as a dog for the 1st time since '97, and several other things have nosedived into the crapper this week.
I do get aggravated, though, when I try to say "1 + 1 = 2" and get a reply quoting the price of tea in China in 1939. And done in a condescending way. Carry on.

 

[Half Empty]

Hey, you keep feeding us straight lines, we've got to come through with the punch lines.

 

[El Guapo]

Feel better. I recommend a beer cheese soup.

 

[PackerDNA]

Feel better. I recommend a beer cheese soup.

Thanks, bud. Man, beer cheese soup sounds great.