Joe Whitt / Winston Moss FIRED - merged threads

[bigbubbatd]

it came out about 3 weeks ago.

Yes three weeks ago when then have been together since what 2009? With the discontents who have left like Jennings and Finley how has this never been in the news until now? Or how wasnt it brought up when McCarthy quit calling plays in 2015 or when the offense struggled early in other seasons? Seems like a non story to me but I can only that say that is what it seems like. To me if this was a big issue it woldnt have stayed quiet for this long and it wouldnt have came out only when McCarthy was firmly on the hot seat. It could be true. It could be spin from McCarthy's camp. It could be what a lot of good qbs do - audible.

 

[Mondio]

over the years one guy has taken veiled, and thought out shots thru media and comments. I've found that every word said is pretty measured and thought out before speaking. The other has kept everything in house and during some remarkably tough times. if anyone is putting spin in the media, I don't expect it from the guy without the history.

 

[AmishMafia]

Yes three weeks ago when then have been together since what 2009? With the discontents who have left like Jennings and Finley how has this never been in the news until now? Or how wasnt it brought up when McCarthy quit calling plays in 2015 or when the offense struggled early in other seasons? Seems like a non story to me but I can only that say that is what it seems like. To me if this was a big issue it woldnt have stayed quiet for this long and it wouldnt have came out only when McCarthy was firmly on the hot seat. It could be true. It could be spin from McCarthy's camp. It could be what a lot of good qbs do - audible.

Come on man. That doesnt make much sense. Look at with unbiased eyes.

Rodgers is an unbelievably gifted QB. I have seen him live about a dozen times and he is easily the best I have seen. But we dont have to put a halo on him and think he is perfect. His play has slipped. His attitude has shifted. He is not as effective as a QB as he once was. Just because he was a hero doesnt mean you should never hold him accountable for his actions.

 

[GleefulGary]

At least we agree on the highlighted part I never said Whitt is a bum. You may want to interrupt me wanting him fired as that, but it is the same stance I would take with the Whitt apologists who seem to think he is so good he should be promoted to DC.

I'm not going to go through your list of players, that has already been done here and included in that previous discussion was all the other players not on your list that Whitt never seemed to coach up. I just don't know how fans can look at all the draft resources the Packers have pumped into the Secondary over the past 5 years and how poorly they have played individually and as a unit and not hold Joe Whitt accountable. I don't care if Charles Woodson thinks JW is a great guy and coach, all I care about is what I see on the field.

You talked about the high draft picks that he has had over the past 5 years. I highlighted them. Unless you want to bring up the safeties, which he didn't coach until this year.

Again, I don't know what you're expecting. Look at the talent on the field. Outside of a select few, it's ****.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Come on man. That doesnt make much sense. Look at with unbiased eyes.

Rodgers is an unbelievably gifted QB. I have seen him live about a dozen times and he is easily the best I have seen. But we dont have to put a halo on him and think he is perfect. His play has slipped. His attitude has shifted. He is not as effective as a QB as he once was. Just because he was a hero doesnt mean you should never hold him accountable for his actions.

I am not sure why it doesnt make sense. I have repeatedly said Rodgers has not been good this season. My point is simple. If Rodgers has been changing McCarthy's plays for so long and that is an issue with the offense why did it just come out now? It is a simple question.

 

[swhitset]

Wait. Joe Whitt got fired?

exactly... i have no idea why these threads got merged.... it seems to have really confused the issues... Joe Whitt and Winston Moss are not the same person and one got fired... the other so far... has not.

never mind ... question answered further down.

 

[swhitset]

There better?

Once threads inadvertently get merged, they are darn near impossible, in this time continuum at least, to split back apart.

gotcha... I was wondering what was up.....??

 

[AmishMafia]

I am not sure why it doesnt make sense. I have repeatedly said Rodgers has not been good this season. My point is simple. If Rodgers has been changing McCarthy's plays for so long and that is an issue with the offense why did it just come out now? It is a simple question.

He used to make good calls as he used to be a better player. His skills have deteriorated. He is acting differently - not positively. He is angry and upset with MM and sounds to be very discontented with MM and the Packers. His audibles are supposed to be based on defensive alignment. Yet AR appears to be making the wrong call unless you think a deep bomb is a good call when the defense is showing blitz. It was reported AR was making audibles to spite MM rather than defensive alignment. His attitude appears to have had an adverse affect on team chemistry. Many have noted the different atmosphere in the locker room or on the field.

 

[swhitset]

Yes three weeks ago when then have been together since what 2009? With the discontents who have left like Jennings and Finley how has this never been in the news until now? Or how wasnt it brought up when McCarthy quit calling plays in 2015 or when the offense struggled early in other seasons? Seems like a non story to me but I can only that say that is what it seems like. To me if this was a big issue it woldnt have stayed quiet for this long and it wouldnt have came out only when McCarthy was firmly on the hot seat. It could be true. It could be spin from McCarthy's camp. It could be what a lot of good qbs do - audible.

who exactly would you have expected to “ bring it up” ? The Packers’ organization keeps a tight lid on things.. and people that talk too much get sent packing. There have been rumors for a long time about various things... but frankly, as long as the team kept winning... nobody cared.

And frankly, he probably wasn’t doing it as often while they were winning. This is not a statement about who was right... Aaron or McCarthy... it’s a statement about teamwork.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

He is Basicly saying that there is no leadership here. With his new head coach looking for loyalty and stability. Moss took the , tear others down to boost yourself, approach...

Well check this out Moss. You're fired.

How's that for leadership?

Anyone else have anything wise to say? Lol.

And thats how thats done. Lol

Moss was going to get fired anyway. He probably just figured ehhh, what the hell. I might as well just admit the emperor has no clothes on.

 

[longtimefan]

exactly... i have no idea why these threads got merged.... it seems to have really confused the issues... Joe Whitt and Winston Moss are not the same person and one got fired... the other so far... has not.

never mind ... question answered further down.

Was my mistake.. Trying to do to many thing at once

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Wait. Joe Whitt got fired?

We all wish. Unfortunately, it looks like we have to suffer until black Monday before he and Zook the Crook get the boot.

 

[gbgary]

Yes three weeks ago when then have been together since what 2009? With the discontents who have left like Jennings and Finley how has this never been in the news until now? Or how wasnt it brought up when McCarthy quit calling plays in 2015 or when the offense struggled early in other seasons? Seems like a non story to me but I can only that say that is what it seems like. To me if this was a big issue it woldnt have stayed quiet for this long and it wouldnt have came out only when McCarthy was firmly on the hot seat. It could be true. It could be spin from McCarthy's camp. It could be what a lot of good qbs do - audible.

Rodgers ignoring MM play calls, whenever it began, isn't a non-story.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Was my mistake.. Trying to do to many thing at once

Careful LTF.....mistakes like that will cost you this high paying job! Good thing you didn't do it on Twitter

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You talked about the high draft picks that he has had over the past 5 years. I highlighted them. Unless you want to bring up the safeties, which he didn't coach until this year.

Again, I don't know what you're expecting. Look at the talent on the field. Outside of a select few, it's ****.

Like I said, all these players and how Whitt has or hasn't been able to coach them up (in all of our opinions) has been discussed over and over and not worth bringing up again, because you and I will never agree. You say Whitt shouldn't be fired and is a solid coach, who is short on talented players. Should we use some more high picks for Joe until he gets it right? ("Look at the talent on the field. Outside of a select few, it's ****")

But I do have to point out one example of something you posted about a player and its really the problem with Joe Whitt in a nutshell. You claim Jackson was "raw" coming in. Really? He was the talk of the draft, all of his interceptions at Iowa and some projected him to be first rounder. How is that raw? Because it fits the argument that Randall, Rollins and everyone else was "raw", so no wonder Whitt can't coach them up and the secondary still sucks. As "raw" as everyone wants to say these guys are, I don't see other teams struggling nearly as much coaching up 1st and 2nd rounders as well as later picks. Maybe Joe just needs more Charles Woodson's handed to him?

Jackson: Came in raw, has struggled in some spots, played well in spots. Not sure what you're expecting.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

How come all of this about Rodgers changing plays all the time didnt come up until right now? Who knows if Rodgers is audibling into better or worse plays? None of us. But I am sure we will slant the story and believe what we want to fit our own agenda.

Here are the facts.
The offense looked below average this year.
There have been times previous seasons where it did as well. Most of the time it clicked out of it but this year it didnt.
Our quarterback isnt as accurate this year. He is missing passes he normally does not
We dont use our rbs in the passing game like other teams - whether this is by design or because our qb doesnt look to them isnt something we know for sure.
We dont run as many rub routes as other teams. ESPN had a good piece on this. We are at the bottom of the league especially in the red zone.
Our wrs outside of Adams are incredibly young or injured a lot
Our TEs havent produced.

I get these boards are for speculation. I just wish sometimes posts admitted they were speculating instead of stating things like fact.

Well here's my take on it. When you got the face of the franchise running into play calling disagreement with his HC, when things become as bad as they did against AZ, the whole changing plays narrative becomes the easiest story to headline what's going on in Green Bay. Now, I would say it is an issue and not a nothingburger, but just not the deepest issue that was making things go wrong.

For example, you're probably not going to be able to generate ratings or readership diving into all the mechanical things going on with our offense. Probably the average Joe would get lost trying to listen to explanations of young rookie WRs not being where Rodgers would hope to anticipate them being as he did with healthy Cobb, James Jones and Jordy back in their primes. I mean I do agree, our offense doesn't have the right horses in the stable to be able to move the ball quickly and get the quick strike tempo going that we've had in the past.

But again, remember the media is all about ratings and simplifying everything for viewers and readers. The Rodgers vs McCarthy play calling thing is the easiest fodder they can get.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

"Scary Stats of the Day"

1. The Chicago Bears defense has 21 interceptions this season, 5 returned for TD's. The Packers defense has 6 (0 TD's) and Ha Ha Clinton Dix had 3 of those.
2. The Packers defense is also ranked 24th in Forced Fumbles with 7 (6 recovered).

While Pettine seems to have improved the defense somewhat, lack of turnovers created by his defense has been pathetic this season.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

"Scary Stats of the Day"

1. The Chicago Bears defense has 21 interceptions this season, 5 returned for TD's. The Packers defense has 6 (0 TD's) and Ha Ha Clinton Dix had 3 of those.
2. The Packers defense is also ranked 24th in Forced Fumbles with 7 (6 recovered).

While Pettine seems to have improved the defense somewhat, lack of turnovers created by his defense has been pathetic this season.

Personally I'm not looking to give Pettine a pass, but when you got a struggling offense not capitalizing enough on the stops, a safety who underachieved and then asked to be traded while having nobody really ready to step in his shoes, plus other players either aging or indoctrinated in the Ted Thompson Dom Capers and Joe Whitt soft approach, it's going to be hard to get championship level play out of that unit.

I'd like to think if our offense had gotten back to form and was whipping through opponents, Pettine might have been even more aggressive with his defensive calls and had our guys giving different looks to cause more turnovers. Who knows, but just my thoughts.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Personally I'm not looking to give Pettine a pass, but when you got a struggling offense not capitalizing enough on the stops, a safety who underachieved and then asked to be traded while having nobody really ready to step in his shoes, plus other players either aging or indoctrinated in the Ted Thompson Dom Capers and Joe Whitt soft approach, it's going to be hard to get championship level play out of that unit.

I'd like to think if our offense had gotten back to form and was whipping through opponents, Pettine might have been even more aggressive with his defensive calls and had our guys giving different looks to cause more turnovers. Who knows, but just my thoughts.

Agreed. I'm not saying Pettine should be gone nor should he sit back and think its clear sailing. What I do notice when I watch other teams is that their players are actively trying to strip balls, bat at a QB's hand/arm while sacking him, DB's are in better positions to make interceptions, etc. Our take away give away differential at first glance seems "ok", it is 0, turnovers aren't helping or hurting us. Fortunately we have an offense that doesn't turn the ball over much. However, I can't help but wonder what our record would be if our takeaways (12) was the same as the Bears (30).

 

[easyk83]

I think I agree. Whitt is keeping the Capers stink in this unit and preventing Pettine from unleashing the machine that stifled Tom Brady back in the day. I also think HHCD needs to go join Randall on the Browns.

I dont think that Gute's impulsiveness is helping matters. Releasing Whitehead and Dix whatever their problems has not made the backend of our defense better.

 

[easyk83]

Agreed. I'm not saying Pettine should be gone nor should he sit back and think its clear sailing. What I do notice when I watch other teams is that their players are actively trying to strip balls, bat at a QB's hand/arm while sacking him, DB's are in better positions to make interceptions, etc. Our take away give away differential at first glance seems "ok", it is 0, turnovers aren't helping or hurting us. Fortunately we have an offense that doesn't turn the ball over much. However, I can't help but wonder what our record would be if our takeaways (12) was the same as the Bears (30).

Ive seen our players go for strips and punch outs. Of course if I was a Packers Defensive assistant Id be screaming every day about wrap and tackle. They'd sleep every night spooning a tackling dummy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I dont think that Gute's impulsiveness is helping matters. Releasing Whitehead and Dix whatever their problems has not made the backend of our defense better.

It think that stems from being fed up and at your breaking point, but is pretty consistent with what Gute has done since stepping into his new role. Whether its a good thing or bad thing, I guess the jury is still out and we won't know for some time.

Ive seen our players go for strips and punch outs. Of course if I was a Packers Defensive assistant Id be screaming every day about wrap and tackle. They'd sleep every night spooning a tackling dummy.

I on the other hand have seen many situations where the ball is being held loosely by the opponent and no effort is made to jar it free. Sacks are a big one, have seen several Packers come in and it seems they aren't even looking for the ball, they just want the sack. Maybe the Packers are just happy to be sacking guys or are afraid of penalties? Moreover, whether you want to say you see the effort or not, the fact that they aren't getting them (turnovers) and other teams are, is all I really care about.

Your last part about tackling has some merit though and if true, kind of pathetic. Tackling hasn't been a strong suit in Green Bay for years, so coaches might be afraid of missed tackles and don't want to teach stripping the ball if guys can't first make sure they know how to tackle.

 

[Mondio]

I dont think that Gute's impulsiveness is helping matters. Releasing Whitehead and Dix whatever their problems has not made the backend of our defense better.

Not immediately, but I think they were made with the intention of making us better. Whitehead was fine, nothing special, not terrible. Dix had regressed. I think he was a problem back there and they knew he wasn't in the future plans and got something for him. I think they wanted to get Jones on the field and see what they had. Time to **** or get off the pot so to speak. he's a 2nd round pick, get him out there and make mistakes to learn from and get better or show he can't get it and know we have to replace him too. I think Whitehead was playing a role they want Jones in, but then we had injuries to a lot of other safeties and now Jones is kind of doing both roles. I think the guy we signed 2 weeks ago was just put on IR, so here we go with more new.

 

[GleefulGary]

Like I said, all these players and how Whitt has or hasn't been able to coach them up (in all of our opinions) has been discussed over and over and not worth bringing up again, because you and I will never agree. You say Whitt shouldn't be fired and is a solid coach, who is short on talented players. Should we use some more high picks for Joe until he gets it right? ("Look at the talent on the field. Outside of a select few, it's ****")

But I do have to point out one example of something you posted about a player and its really the problem with Joe Whitt in a nutshell. You claim Jackson was "raw" coming in. Really? He was the talk of the draft, all of his interceptions at Iowa and some projected him to be first rounder. How is that raw? Because it fits the argument that Randall, Rollins and everyone else was "raw", so no wonder Whitt can't coach them up and the secondary still sucks. As "raw" as everyone wants to say these guys are, I don't see other teams struggling nearly as much coaching up 1st and 2nd rounders as well as later picks. Maybe Joe just needs more Charles Woodson's handed to him?

Uhhh...who didn't think Jackson was raw? He only started one year in college! Pretty much everybody said there was a lot of ability there, but he was coming in raw. Do you really think everybody who is a first rounder isn't raw?

Rollins played football one year after playing basketball for 4 years. Is that not coming out raw? Randall was a safety playing out of position at CB. Kevin King came out needing a lot of technique work to play CB, and guess what?! He's gotten it! Look at his tape from this year compared to his rookie year, it's a dramatic difference.

Whitt got Randall to play CB pretty well. He's developed King to play pretty well. He has Alexander playing pretty well. But the last two don't count because they're in the first couple rounds, and those guy just always come in good. None of them are ever bad. Look. Whitt doesn't get to draft the players. He coaches what he has, and right now, it ain't much. King is constantly hurt, Alexander is good (but still a rookie), Jackson is raw, Breeland is meh, Williams is at safety and he's old, Tony Brown is an UDFA...where's the talent he's supposed to coach up bud? Does Cleveland's coach have Randall playing well at CB? Rollins has been on the street for most of the season, is that Whitt's fault he couldn't coach that up? So I'll ask again, this talent...where is it? Cause outside of 2-3 guys, I ain't seeing it.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I dont think that Gute's impulsiveness is helping matters. Releasing Whitehead and Dix whatever their problems has not made the backend of our defense better.

Problem is HHCD was tweeting around wanting to be traded. It was apparent he wasn't willing to become a better player for us and is just another one of Ted's busts who unlike Hyde and Heyward actually has not improved in Washington.

The only thing I consider maybe doing wrong by Gute was not grabbing Derwin James while our whole chat room was clamoring for it. Now true, it may have meant we don't have Alexander if we did, but we still might have snagged some decent corners later, and if James was here staying healthy all season, we may have had our safety position addressed.

Course now, I am of course assuming he wouldn't have gotten mucked up by Whitt's lousy positioning in his scheme.