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Jimmy Graham

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Ace, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I can certainly understand that point of view (and Cobb is younger). However, keep in mind that over the past three seasons Graham has more than twice as many receiving yards as Cobb and Graham had 3 more TDs last season alone than Cobb has had in the past three years. I like Cobb and there aren't many players that I think are hands down better than him but Graham is one of those guys. Cobb is more versatile than Graham but Graham is the BEST in the NFL at his position (taking duarbility into account).
     
  2. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    I disagree with that assessment to a certain extent. In Cobb's only full season where he was a starter in 2012, he led the league in total yards - including return yards. Graham will always dominate TD's because of his size. But, as far as impacting the complete game, I think Cobb and Graham have similar abilities to do so, just via different routes. Last year, Cobb played great for us, but then got injured on a bogus shot to the knee. Nothing about that is a durability issue in my opinion. And, for what it's worth, Graham has battled shoulders and foot bits these last two seasons (if I remember correctly). So he, too, has been nicked up. Just not the devastating injury that Cobb suffered this last season.

    Finally, it's worth wondering how much Graham is the benefactor of playing with Brees in that offense. The reason I say this is that he's not a complete TE. He's not a blocker and I've never really thought of him as a great route runner or anything like that. He has unbelievable size and athleticism that is a perfect fit for that system. Now, I say this knowing full well just how dominant of a "TE" he is in the league. But, I think it's fair to question his value in another system where he might not have the freedom in the offense like he does in NO.
     
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  3. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    I really hope the report about the Packers being interested in Garrett Graham is true. This is the kind of move I would really like to see Ted make. He has improved every year he's been in the league and it allows you to keep other offensive weapons and add a TE that will do everything we need him to do without breaking the bank.
     
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  4. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    A Packers official says the idea of his team going after Jimmy Graham is "dumb beyond dumb...won't happen."

    Glad im not the only one to feel this way.
     
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  6. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I was listening to the Score radio last week and a draft "expert" said at the combine he heard a personnel guy from the Steelers with 30 years experience say this is the deepest draft he can remember. I heard that same sentiment - that it's an extremely deep draft if not the deepest in memory - expressed by another "expert". I'm not an expert or even a "draftnik" so I don't know. I do know I've heard that kind of opinion expressed in the past about other drafts (but not every draft). But if that is close to being true, I would rather see Thompson trade back from pick #21 than trade it and the 2015 first rounder for any TE.
     
  7. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I'm still not interested in Ebron at #21. We need defense. I think if he's still there at #21 and our safeties are gone, Seattle might be very interested in moving up. If they're willing to give up their 2nd to do so, I'd probably be happy to drop to #32 and see what's there and add a 2nd rounder.
     
  8. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I don’t know how that looks regarding the draft pick value chart but if the Packers did that trade with Seattle, they potentially could have 5 picks in the first three rounds (if they get a 3rd round comp pick for Jennings). Again, if it really is a very deep draft...
     
  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I think it's a very deep draft as well. Lots of younger players coming out. The issue with that being is immaturity as well as longer to develop. Wouldn't surprise me in the least for the rookies of the year to come from outside the 1st round
     
  10. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Could resign Quarless for cheap if Finley can't play or isn't willing to come down on his asking price. That solves your tightend issue and then still go defense in the 1st round. If Shields is let go I wouldn't be shocked to see TT take Varrett or Gilbert in the 1st and a safety or olb in the second. Bucannan or the dude from Stanford. Maybe target Michael Johnson the DE who is a free agent from Cincy. Wrs are deep in this yrs draft or someone cheap like Ted Ginn to be an extra body and immediately upgrade the kickoff return game. It's possible to improve 3 units without spending a ton of money. And I wouldn't consider these pickups fantasy football like some of you like to say .
     
  11. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Let me be clear, I am in no way hoping that the Packers go after Graham this year or in the near future. I'm really just exploring the idea of the dominant receiving TE more than anything else, so please don't think that any of my responses to this are meant to denigrate Cobb or anything of the sort.

    Now, regarding Graham, the "complete" TE isn't really anything special in this league. There are blocking tight ends that are much better than Graham and Gronk but they aren't nearly as sought after in the NFL because they can't catch the ball. Twenty years ago the tight end needed to be able to block and be an outlet receiver for the QB. In today's pass happy NFL, the prototypical TE is basically supposed to be a matchup problem for safeties and linebackers. The most important jobs for the TE in today's NFL are 1) receiving 2) receiving 3) blocking. Graham doesn't have to be a great blocker because NFL defenses have to play nickel any time he's in the game. He takes a linebacker not just out of the play, but entirely off the field!

    Your point regarding him playing with Brees is valid. If you look at Brees' pass attempts, he averages almost two more full games worth of passes every year when compared to Rodgers, so Brees' receivers are basically getting two more games worth of receptions compared to Green Bay.

    Finally, and this isn't directly at Cobb, I've never really been a big fan of the "total yards" metric. Total yards from scrimmage I like but it has always felt kind of cheap to include kick and punt return yards when comparing a guy to an offense-only player. I get the idea, Cobb can help the return game and Graham can't, but I just think the team should have a good returner that isn't a primary starter. All the total yards does for me is say our starter is at more risk for injury.
     
  12. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Polian (I think) on NFL Radio said that there will be guys going around the 20th pick who would have been top 10 last season. This is not the season to trade up, but a trade back could be a better idea. I think, though, that if Polian meant the talent tier was at about 20, the Packers should just sit tight because someone ahead will probably reach for need leaving a couple of blue chippers for us to choose from. And I don't care if it is a WR, OT or a TE - but if a top notch player is there, we need to pull the trigger.
     
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  13. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    I'm glad you said that about his "hypothetical ACL injury". That might have been the dumbest thing said on this forum (and that's saying a lot). You could say that about any player. Hey, what if the Packers draft an offensive lineman who breaks his leg and doesn't play for three years? OH WAIT, that happened.

    On your first point, that was the entire point of my post. Sans money, Jimmy Graham for two back end first rounds picks is not an insane price to pay for the best tight end in football... especially with the way the Packers have drafted recently in the first round.

    I like the way we think!
     
  14. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Pointing out that any player acquired could get seriously injured is hardly a point worth making. But when comparing a player who would cost 2 first round picks and top money at his position and a significant salary cap hit to a late first round pick makes the point. Of course any player could get injured but look at the difference going forward if the significantly injured player is newly acquired Jimmy Graham and the other is Derek Sherrod. IOW, in this context that's hardly the dumbest thing posted on this forum: Sherrod's injury hurt but how has his inactivity affected the Packers cash flow, salary cap, and future drafts?
     
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  15. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    I'm just pointing out that saying "what if X Player" gets injured and can't play as a reason not to do something is dumb (for a lack of better terms) since you can say that about any player. I understand comparing Jimmy Graham, his salary and the cost to the Packers to Derrick Sherrod is not equivalent. But to dismiss something based on the possibility it might not work is insane. You could make that argument for anything in life.
     
  16. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I think we all understand that the better the player, the more we have our hopes invested in that one player and the more damaging it is if they get injured.

    If we lose Aaron Rodgers to injury, it is extremely devastating to our team and chances. We found that out firsthand. That doesn't mean I would ship him to Minnesota for Christian Ponder and a few first round picks to diversify my risk.
     
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  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I don´t think Quarless will be the solution at TE. While he had some nice games with Flynn under center it seems he doesn´t have any chemistry with Rodgers. Sign Graham, Garrett that is!!!

    Gronk is an awesome run blocker as well, there aren´t a lot better TEs in the league in that category either.
     
  18. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    As far as complete TEs Ill take Witten any day of the week.
     
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