Jerry Kramer, Sterling=HoF?

[G0PackG0]

How far would you drive to get to that enshrinement? And how Green n Gold would Canton be that night?! http://jerrykramer4hof.com/ Sign the petition and share it to your NFL friends. I know I would make the 2 hour drive lol in a heartbeat.

 

[FrankRizzo]

I voted!
Kramer needs to be in. That's a PH***ING JOKE that he's not in.
Sterling would have been for sure had his career not been cut so short. That sucked.

 

[Dan115]

Should have beed in Hall years ago.

 

[ivo610]

Jerry Kramer has been nominated over a dozen times. Kevin Greene our LBers coach rarely gets mentioned yet has more sacks than any linebacker, and 3rd most all time. So it's him I feel needs to get a look by the voters.

I look forward to attending woodsons HOF enshrinement

 

[Dan115]

I hope Jerry gets in while he is still alive.

 

[LAG]

Definitely Jerry, I don't think Sterling though because of his shortened career, though he was very special.

 

[kramerkid]

Jerry hasn't been nominated a dozen times, lol. And you know why he has been overlooked? Because there are too many Lombardi era Packers in the hall. And because voters (who are writers) were jealous of his book success. Jerry was an integral part of the Packer sweep. He played under Lombardi for 8 years. One of the most demanding coaches ever. If you didn't do your job and do it well, you were gone. Jerry was a guard and place kicker, kicking over 177 points in his career. Some of those game winning points. Don't dismiss Jerry because of what you heard. Do your research. As the only member of the 50th Anniversary team not in the hall, it's time to get him there. He belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And if you don't believe me. Ask Doug Atkins, Frank Gifford, Roger Staubach, Bart Starr and others. They were there, 45 years ago, and are coming forward to speak on his behalf. If you would like to see those letters, look here: http://share.snacktools.com/AB795DF569B/fumexa0i

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[ivo610]

Jerry hasn't been nominated a dozen times, lol. And you know why he has been overlooked? Because there are too many Lombardi era Packers in the hall. And because voters (who are writers) were jealous of his book success. Jerry was an integral part of the Packer sweep. He played under Lombardi for 8 years. One of the most demanding coaches ever. If you didn't do your job and do it well, you were gone. Jerry was a guard and place kicker, kicking over 177 points in his career. Some of those game winning points. Don't dismiss Jerry because of what you heard. Do your research. As the only member of the 50th Anniversary team not in the hall, it's time to get him there. He belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And if you don't believe me. Ask Doug Atkins, Frank Gifford, Roger Staubach, Bart Starr and others. They were there, 45 years ago, and are coming forward to speak on his behalf. If you would like to see those letters, look here: http://share.snacktools.com/AB795DF569B/fumexa0i

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This is from a hall of fame voter, and it makes perfect sense.

"We are being asked, basically, to overrule those who watched Kramer's entire career. They had 15 chances to enshrine Kramer after watching the Packers win five titles in the '60s. They had years to nominate and push his case as a senior candidate. And the media people who saw him the most and knew the Packers the best didn't think he was worthy."

 

[El Guapo]

...or they had something against him and the current HOF voters aren't blinded by prejudices

 

[ivo610]

...or they had something against him and the current HOF voters aren't blinded by prejudices

the discrimination card? Come on, don't be that guy. It's not like the HOF has a history of discrimination. The people that saw him didn't think he was good enough.

There are a bunch of O line players that have never been inducted, but have as good or better resumes than Kramer. Kramer is just the most famous. Examples include; al wistert, Jim tyrer, Walt Sweeney, and Ed budde.

 

[kramerkid]

Ha, YOU don't be that guy!!! Because everyone seems to believe opposite of you and knows what Jerry's contribution was to the Packers and to football itself.

Everyone has an opinion and you have yours. I respect that.

But riddle me this:
What "people" are you referring to? The writers, who were voters, that died or who were replaced by new writers who never saw Jerry play, let alone watched the Packer sweep except in highlight film? If you have any reference, go back to newspaper articles. Visit the time that and you will see what writers thought of Jerry.

Name that bunch of Offensive Guards/Kickers who have better stats then Kramer?

There are also a couple guys who have been nominated just as many times as Kramer has, but were eventually enshrined.

And there are are cases of discrimination. Alex Kerras may never see the hall of fame. That's a shame. The Pro Football Hall of Fame is suppose to base their vote on what a player did on the field, not off. Karras was a loose cannon, an actor and pro wrestler who made impolitic public statements and was suspended for a year for gambling.

Another point that people have failed to look at is when the hall of fame was built, they enshrined a number of Packers, Steelers and Bears. All great players. There were a number of Lombardi era Packers that were enshrined. Mostly glamorous positions. Not many offensive line guys. Still today the offensive line is under represented in the hall.

And I will leave you with this, imagine the Lombardi sweep without Kramer. Sure there were others that followed stepped in after him that did that job well. But he was the man for eight years. 22 major operations, most of them football related couldn't keep Kramer from coming back. And running that play perfectly. He was part of three consecutive Championships. He deserves the hall.

 

[G0PackG0]

Too many Lombardi era Packers in the Hall excuse really ticks me off.

 

[kramerkid]

PS That is one hall of fame voter out of forty. King has yet to see portfolio. That portfolio that was presented to the voters was given only to the senior selection committee. And that is one tweet King wrote. Did you see the tweet where he said it would be hard and not impossible? You are not fully informed. King said he needed to see footage of Kramer and hear from his contemporaries . King does not know that these people have written letters. The information has not been presented to him. And I can imagine King has quite a bit of information he has to sort through. Current information. Not current information on a Packer who played forty five years ago. You don't think any of these names don't mean anything in football history? Are you kidding me. And these are the Hall of Famers that are alive and active. Alot of these gentlemen, gentlemen who are already in the hall, thought Jerry was there.

Frank Gifford
Bart Starr
**** Butkus
Roger Staubach
Bob Lilly
Doug Atkins
Joe Delamielleure
Chuck Bednarik
Alan Page
Joe Schmidt
Bob St. Clair
Paul Hornung
Gino Marchetti
Larry Csonka
John Mackey
Raymond Berry
Willie Davis
Dan Dierdorf
Joe Gibbs
Jan Stenerud
Fred Dean
Mel Renfro
Mike Ditka
Chris Hanburger
Tommy McDonald
Charley Trippi
Jim Otto
Warren Moon
Alex Kerras
Merlin Olsen
Dave Wilcox

Even commissioner Roger Goodell, thought Jerry was in the hall.

Not to mention Art Daley (writer) and Jim Murray (Writer) as well as Heisman foundation

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#Quit beating dead horse! Never....

 

[kramerkid]

Too many Lombardi era Packers in the Hall excuse really ticks me off.

Tics me off too! If a player is deserving. A team is deserving, then they should be in.

 

[ivo610]

Ha, YOU don't be that guy!!! Because everyone seems to believe opposite of you and knows what Jerry's contribution was to the Packers and to football itself.

Everyone has an opinion and you have yours. I respect that.

But riddle me this:
What "people" are you referring to? The writers, who were voters, that died or who were replaced by new writers who never saw Jerry play, let alone watched the Packer sweep except in highlight film? If you have any reference, go back to newspaper articles. Visit the time that and you will see what writers thought of Jerry.

Name that bunch of Offensive Guards/Kickers who have better stats then Kramer?

There are also a couple guys who have been nominated just as many times as Kramer has, but were eventually enshrined.

And there are are cases of discrimination. Alex Kerras may never see the hall of fame. That's a shame. The Pro Football Hall of Fame is suppose to base their vote on what a player did on the field, not off. Karras was a loose cannon, an actor and pro wrestler who made impolitic public statements and was suspended for a year for gambling.

Another point that people have failed to look at is when the hall of fame was built, they enshrined a number of Packers, Steelers and Bears. All great players. There were a number of Lombardi era Packers that were enshrined. Mostly glamorous positions. Not many offensive line guys. Still today the offensive line is under represented in the hall.

And I will leave you with this, imagine the Lombardi sweep without Kramer. Sure there were others that followed stepped in after him that did that job well. But he was the man for eight years. 22 major operations, most of them football related couldn't keep Kramer from coming back. And running that play perfectly. He was part of three consecutive Championships. He deserves the hall.

Me don't be that guy? Uhhh I wasn't. Where did I say it was discrimination? Jerry is a popular rallying cry for packer fans, doesn't mean he should be in. These are the same fans who many times talk about how they can't wait for Driver to get inducted.

Umm I listed 4 offensive linemen in my previous post. You miss that?

Like King said, you had a very famous packer who had 15 chances to get in before he was a senior canidate but the people who saw him decided he wasn't worthy.

Of the players who have appeared 10 times or more as a finalist, all 5 of them were inducted at some.

Jerry Kramer is more famous for not being in the HOF at this point than if he would have been inducted in the 70s. People cuss and scream about it, but it keeps his name out there even more.

 

[ivo610]

PS That is one hall of fame voter out of forty. King has yet to see portfolio. That portfolio that was presented to the voters was given only to the senior selection committee. And that is one tweet King wrote. Did you see the tweet where he said it would be hard and not impossible? You are not fully informed. King said he needed to see footage of Kramer and hear from his contemporaries . King does not know that these people have written letters. The information has not been presented to him. And I can imagine King has quite a bit of information he has to sort through. Current information. Not current information on a Packer who played forty five years ago. You don't think any of these names don't mean anything in football history? Are you kidding me. And these are the Hall of Famers that are alive and active. Alot of these gentlemen, gentlemen who are already in the hall, thought Jerry was there.

Frank Gifford
Bart Starr
**** Butkus
Roger Staubach
Bob Lilly
Doug Atkins
Joe Delamielleure
Chuck Bednarik
Alan Page
Joe Schmidt
Bob St. Clair
Paul Hornung
Gino Marchetti
Larry Csonka
John Mackey
Raymond Berry
Willie Davis
Dan Dierdorf
Joe Gibbs
Jan Stenerud
Fred Dean
Mel Renfro
Mike Ditka
Chris Hanburger
Tommy McDonald
Charley Trippi
Jim Otto
Warren Moon
Alex Kerras
Merlin Olsen
Dave Wilcox

Even commissioner Roger Goodell, thought Jerry was in the hall.

Not to mention Art Daley (writer) and Jim Murray (Writer) as well as Heisman foundation

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#Quit beating dead horse! Never....

If Bart Starr and Paul Hornung didn't know Kramer wasn't in the HOF I might question their mental health.

Citing hall of famers who didnt know he wasn't inducted doesn't mean he should or shouldn't be in the HOF.

Lavvie Dilweg is one of 2 players that was on the 1920s all decade team that isn't in the hall and is a former Packer. Does he have just as strong of a case as Kramer? I believe so. Will he ever get in? I highly doubt it.

 

[ivo610]

I always enjoy reading GWH's opinions on historical matters in packers history. I'm sure he has a great take on Kramer, and his perceived "snub"

 

[kramerkid]

Lol, I never said Bart Starr and Paul Hornung didn't know? If you would have READ the portfolio you would have known this. Besides, you are right. What the hell do Bart Starr and Paul H. know? Them and all those silly other Pro Football Hall of Famers? Who the hell do they think they are coming back 45 years later to champion an undeserving player?

 

[ivo610]

Lol, I never said Bart Starr and Paul Hornung didn't know? If you would have READ the portfolio you would have known this. Besides, you are right. What the hell do Bart Starr and Paul H. know? Them and all those silly other Pro Football Hall of Famers? Who the hell do they think they are coming back 45 years later to champion an undeserving player?

Sigh... You said "alot of these players didn't know Jerry wasn't in" you never said which ones. I said if Paul and Bart don't know then I might question their mental health.
For you it's clearly not an issue of reading, it's an issue of comprehending.

Players, former and current are terrible keepers of history.

 

[El Guapo]

Hey, I wasn't trying to be "that" guy. It makes me mad if anybody is discriminated against for reasons not related to their accomplishments on the field. I don't know if it's true in JK's case, I was just reacting to what was posted. I'm no homer and certainly don't think that Driver has done close to enough to warrant HOF status. He's just one heck of a great person and really good receiver. Kramer was great. So from that sense, I am that guy

 

[ivo610]

Hey, I wasn't trying to be "that" guy. It makes me mad if anybody is discriminated against for reasons not related to their accomplishments on the field. I don't know if it's true in JK's case, I was just reacting to what was posted. I'm no homer and certainly don't think that Driver has done close to enough to warrant HOF status. He's just one heck of a great person and really good receiver. Kramer was great. So from that sense, I am that guy

Only 1 guy do I think the voters have a bias against and that's bc he killed his wife.

Charles Haley is going to get in most likely and he was as unlike able as they come

 

[Dan115]

the discrimination card? Come on, don't be that guy. It's not like the HOF has a history of discrimination. The people that saw him didn't think he was good enough.

There are a bunch of O line players that have never been inducted, but have as good or better resumes than Kramer. Kramer is just the most famous. Examples include; al wistert, Jim tyrer, Walt Sweeney, and Ed budde.

His book has hurt him.

 

[ivo610]

His book has hurt him.

How did the book hurt him? Were reporters offended he wrote a book?

 

[toolkien]

I haven't made a perfect study of all 44 folks who vote for the HOF, but I don't really have much respect for the ones I have. John "There's Ten Elite QB's In The NFL" Clayton is a prime example. At some point one has to look at the process and the people who control it. At the end of the day, sports writers are a bunch of sweaty courtesy-buffet jockeys whose opinions matter about as much as your average fan. Knowing an A-gap from a 9-technique doesn't endow one with the ability to know exactly which 1.5% of players deserve to be in or out of the HOF. I don't sweat that Rush isn't in the Rock'nRoll HOF, and I don't sweat that Kramer isn't in the PFHOF.

To further the point, anyone watch those "Top 10 ......" programs on the NFL network and they cut to the media guys that make up 70% of the show? They typify the mental giants who vote for the HOF.

The internet provides a lot of resources and statistics, and we can watch the games to our heart's content. The "all field" access we are soon to get will give us even more to look at if we choose. The days of the intermediaries are numbered?

 

[DevilDon]

These are the same fans who many times talk about how they can't wait for Driver to get inducted.

Jerry Kramer is more famous for not being in the HOF at this point than if he would have been inducted in the 70s. People cuss and scream about it, but it keeps his name out there even more.

Really Ivo? Are you serious? I've yet to see a single post here about Driver being inducted. Not a single one and I've been here for a couple of years. Where are you getting your material? I look over alot of Packer news sites and I read comments and I've never once, not one single time seen someone suggest that Driver should be inducted.
Not that it matters though, what in all of creation are you going on about with Kramer's induction or worth? If you didn't watch his play personally are you okay with trusting it to writers? Are you okay with any written word about history not being tinted at least a little bit by the writers personal bias? You know I write everything with a positive Green Bay Packers bias right? What makes you think other writers don't have the same bias?
My son asked me last night why people are such illogical animals and I told him that some people just process information differently, different filters and so on.
But nobody, not one single soul has ever had a solid argument for why Jerry Kramer is not in the NFL Hall of Fame Ivo. He's got the numbers, he's got the history, he's got the dominance. Your perception that writers and voters know more than us is as weak as any I've ever heard. Do a quick Google search and see if your argument holds up. Jerry Kramer is first on most hits on most deserving player not in the hall of fame. In fact there was a show on the NFL network recently and guess who was number 1?
You're crazy if you think his name is more famous for not being in the hall of fame. Instant Replay is still considered "must" reading by every NFL fan, regardless of your favorite team or era. I have no idea what your personal bias is against Jerry Kramer but I will never understand it until someone can give me one single reason why he's not worthy. He's an ICON in the history of the NFL. Hall of FAME?
And do your research, he made many game winning field goals, he wasn't just a guy. He WAS that team.
Do some research, you'll agree with me!
Go sign the petition folks, this guy was one of a kind.