Spanky
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You go to great lengths to denigrate people who have defended Rodgers. And it's a strawman argument.
It’s now OFFICIAL!!! Rodgers has been traded to the Jets.
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You go to great lengths to denigrate people who have defended Rodgers. And it's a strawman argument.
I don't think that's been anybody's argument on here, it certainly hasn't been mine. I have zero qualms in saying I'm certain they ran things that fits Rodger's strengths. Shocker. and When Love has almost 2 decades under center, I'm guessing he doesn't spend as much time under center either. I also think not really having anybody on the roster other than Cobb to run a lot of that motion with Rodgers under center because Watson was injured for much of it, also influenced how Stenavich and MLF designed the offense.
What I do reject?, Rodgers dictated the offense as has often been the narrative by many.
It also remains to be seen if Love being under center is better, or just different.
OldSchool101
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Obviously Love has a lot to learn and there should be a natural curve with any first year starter. That said, I think him running the MLF Offense more on track with its original intention will make up for some of what we just lost. Rodgers was exceptional at making adjustments, but his physical and mental gift made up for going play derivative. I think Matt allowed that freedom because he was working with an All time Great QB with a strong will.
Also leeway came when we were winning and Winning is the ultimate goal.
If Jordan sticks more often to a script and is above average efficient, my guess is the system will cover some deficiencies in “Pure QB play”
The thing is that you do appear to be more of an Aaron Rodgers fan than a Packers fan. You always give Rodgers the benefit of the doubt, but you do not necessarily do the same for other members of the Packers organization. You also seem to be threatened whenever anyone suggests that Love could play at a level similar to a 2022 Aaron Rodgers, going so far as to suggest the Packers might be the worst team in the NFL next season with Love at the helm, even though the majority of the roster will be the same and they might even have better offensive weapons.
Reading the recent posts a question popped into my head. I think everyone agrees Gute is tied to Love. He traded up to draft him with a HOFer on the roster and eventually traded the HOFer. To a certain extent how Love performs will reflect on his reputation as a GM. To just what extent I realize there are quite a few different views. I am now wondering as it is being discussed that Love will be running the MLF offense the way it is designed does his and the teams success (or lack thereof) have the same impact on MLFs reputation as a coach?
Dantés
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Yes
tynimiller
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Yup, but if the Love experience is clearly autrocious…Gute may have one draft to save his job and season depending in 2024
history of favre to rodgers to love.
With how everything shook out, I'll lmao if love is a hof player.
Because everything is repeating
With how everything shook out, I'll lmao if love is a hof player.
Because everything is repeating
D
Deleted member 6794
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I'm sorry but if you don't understand that having a tight end like Kelce resulting in the receivers getting less targets than on a team which features a group of Tonyan, Degaura, Lewis and Davis there's no point of discussing about it any further.
For the umpteenth time, I don't consider Rodgers to be perfect by any means. He definitely deserves some blame for playoff losses in the past and there's no doubt that he played well below his potential in 2022. Of course I don't expect any of you to acknowledge that I agree there's valid criticism of his play as well.
With that being said I truly appreciate the level he has played at for the Packers over the past 15 years, which possibly none of us will ever see again at the quarterback position in Green Bay during our lifetimes (for evidence, take a look around the league how many teams struggle to find at least an adequate starter for many, many years).
Sadly, there are too many posters around here who are so spoiled by the level of QB play in Green Bay over the past 30 years that they can't appreciate how special of a talent he was. Even worse, you act as if he didn't do any better than Zach Wilson or other QBs of that caliber.
As I have mentioned repeatedly, I believe that Gutekunst has done a pretty good job overall. But he completely botched the 2020 draft and like it or not his tenure will most likely be evaluated by how Love will end up working out.
Why would Mahomes prefer to throw to a different receiver when targeting Kelce works out that well?
I'm not the one bringing up Rodgers without any reason. But there are several posters who take shots at him without any need and seem to can't let go of it for some random reason.
The entire league doesn't use quarterbacks lining up under center anymore. Last season, despite playing most of the season with a broken thumb, only eight quarterbacks in the entire league lined up under center more often than Rodgers.
You're sounding more and more like @Pokerbrat2000. And that's definitely not meant as a compliment.
First of all, Rodgers has been an elite quarterback for the Packers for the most part over the past 15 years. Therefore he might deserve the benefit of the doubt occasionally.
It's ridiculous to suggest that I'm not a Packers fan first and foremost. You might not know but I have spent a ton of money to make the trip to Green Bay several times, as far as I know have watched every single game since 2009 despite it took staying up until 6am for prime time games a lot of times, have put my name on the Club Level seating list several years back, ready to make that commitment despite knowing I won't be able to attend every single game at Lambeau, took the trip to London to see them play closer to my home and so on.
So once again, I'm definitely a die-hard Packers fan and hope the Jets struggle mightily despite Rodgers playing at least 65%. But I don't understand the constant bashing of one of the greatest players in franchise history.
That's beyond ridiculous. I would be ecstatic about Love putting up similar or better numbers than Rodgers did in 2022. Unfortunately I don't believe that's gonna happen as it will take some time for him and the offense, which mostly features inexperienced pass catchers, to perform at a decent level.
As a side note, the offense won't return the majority of the players who were on the roster in 2022. The Packers will be without the most productive wide receiver, tight end as well as their kicker. They lost some other pieces as well with solely rookies taking their spot.
Defending against a lot of these accusations isn't because of hero worship or viewing him as a God. I think i've been pretty clear in my time here, players are players, it's about all I could care about. They're all human and as long as they don't offend on some of the bigger issues like killing people or beating kids, i'm pretty much a forgiving guy as I've met a lot of people in my time and most of you, myself included, need some forgiving.
But the past few years he's been attacked for pretty much everything and most of it has turned out to be nothing. Last year with Adams. Adams was leaving because of Rodgers. Rodgers was leaving because of Adams, Turns out they're still pretty good friends and none of it was true. and now people will read into Adam's new statements and a whole new slew will probably start, but whatever. Neither play for this team anymore and both, as I've maintained are very good in their own right and helped each other be better.
or this year. Hackett wouldn't want Rodgers because he told him "no" in meetings. He just took control and told the OC they weren't doing something. He seems pretty excited to have him back in his offensive room if you ask me. What I believe is a normal HC, OC, QB relationship gets turned into " Rodgers is the bad guy" at every turn. There's been so much stuff throw at the wall in the past 3 years I can't even remember all of it, and most of it turned out to be nothing. as if there won't be disagreements between HC, OC, and QB. I bet MLF told Hackett "no" on more than a few occasions, but there were not articles on that. It's normal and it's ok. until the media told us all it wasn't. Just another example of Aaron Rodgers being a nuisance or worse.
He's not perfect. he misses stuff, he's screwed up at times. The issue I have is, his "screw ups" often times are just a time or 2 where he looks like every other QB in the league and not his former self and people run with it like he's "the problem" and not the rookie WR's. Then guys like Kurt Warner do a bit and show you just how often there are screw ups and why there is dysfunction and it largely isn't Rodgers. But some of us still have to defend against it on here. Sure there was offensive changes made to use your aging HOF QB's strengths. that's normal. that isn't Godgers calling all the shots. But much of that dysfunction wasn't simply because they didn't run things the same way as before, it was because young guys weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing.
Yeah, misdirection and motion and all that sound great. put Rodgers under center. But who was going to run all that motion last year? We saw Lazard do it, show of hands, now many liked it? Watson from the bench? How much short stuff was going to be available when defenses were playing everything up close knowing our Oline ouldn't protect and we couldn' get open deep for much of the year? Maybe he was put in shotgun because of personnel as much as his desire to be there? Maybe not, maybe he became the defacto HC after his contract, in which case I would have sent them both packing.
Or like in the Detroit game, brought it up a few times. His pass to Toure I believe that was picked in the endzone. That was not a terrible pass. It was slightly short, but it was a long pass. It definitely wasn't perfect, but it wasn't all that bad either. I contrasted it with a TD to AJ brown who, as good receivers do, adjusted his route, twice, and subtly making the defenders adjust to him and then made it look like an easy catch for a TD. Something our young WR doesn't do yet. it's ok, they have to learn, but he ran himself right away from the ball leaving a big window for the defender to fly in and make a play. Every QB in the league from Brady and Mahomes to everyone else has a lot of deep balls like that. They aren't all perfect. Some are, and make highlight reels, but many are not and it takes an experienced WR to help out the QB, and Rodgers got none of it last year.
But when I disagree with a football observation, so many view it as Rodgers worship. for what? in saying the pass wasn't perfect? Toure needs to learn to help a QB out? Because I disagree that it was a "terrible" pass? because that's what I disagree with. Not because I think he's a god.
I think he's very intelligent and his attention to details and his expectations in practice probably have driven a few teammates absolutely ****ing nuts to the point they couldn't wait to get away from him. But I also believe the vast majority were made better players by that and love the player and the man. But a few will take the few instances and turn into Rodgers is ruining the team arguments again, which I will defend against. Not because of hero worship, but because I disagree with the exceptions being made the rules.
But the past few years he's been attacked for pretty much everything and most of it has turned out to be nothing. Last year with Adams. Adams was leaving because of Rodgers. Rodgers was leaving because of Adams, Turns out they're still pretty good friends and none of it was true. and now people will read into Adam's new statements and a whole new slew will probably start, but whatever. Neither play for this team anymore and both, as I've maintained are very good in their own right and helped each other be better.
or this year. Hackett wouldn't want Rodgers because he told him "no" in meetings. He just took control and told the OC they weren't doing something. He seems pretty excited to have him back in his offensive room if you ask me. What I believe is a normal HC, OC, QB relationship gets turned into " Rodgers is the bad guy" at every turn. There's been so much stuff throw at the wall in the past 3 years I can't even remember all of it, and most of it turned out to be nothing. as if there won't be disagreements between HC, OC, and QB. I bet MLF told Hackett "no" on more than a few occasions, but there were not articles on that. It's normal and it's ok. until the media told us all it wasn't. Just another example of Aaron Rodgers being a nuisance or worse.
He's not perfect. he misses stuff, he's screwed up at times. The issue I have is, his "screw ups" often times are just a time or 2 where he looks like every other QB in the league and not his former self and people run with it like he's "the problem" and not the rookie WR's. Then guys like Kurt Warner do a bit and show you just how often there are screw ups and why there is dysfunction and it largely isn't Rodgers. But some of us still have to defend against it on here. Sure there was offensive changes made to use your aging HOF QB's strengths. that's normal. that isn't Godgers calling all the shots. But much of that dysfunction wasn't simply because they didn't run things the same way as before, it was because young guys weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing.
Yeah, misdirection and motion and all that sound great. put Rodgers under center. But who was going to run all that motion last year? We saw Lazard do it, show of hands, now many liked it? Watson from the bench? How much short stuff was going to be available when defenses were playing everything up close knowing our Oline ouldn't protect and we couldn' get open deep for much of the year? Maybe he was put in shotgun because of personnel as much as his desire to be there? Maybe not, maybe he became the defacto HC after his contract, in which case I would have sent them both packing.
Or like in the Detroit game, brought it up a few times. His pass to Toure I believe that was picked in the endzone. That was not a terrible pass. It was slightly short, but it was a long pass. It definitely wasn't perfect, but it wasn't all that bad either. I contrasted it with a TD to AJ brown who, as good receivers do, adjusted his route, twice, and subtly making the defenders adjust to him and then made it look like an easy catch for a TD. Something our young WR doesn't do yet. it's ok, they have to learn, but he ran himself right away from the ball leaving a big window for the defender to fly in and make a play. Every QB in the league from Brady and Mahomes to everyone else has a lot of deep balls like that. They aren't all perfect. Some are, and make highlight reels, but many are not and it takes an experienced WR to help out the QB, and Rodgers got none of it last year.
But when I disagree with a football observation, so many view it as Rodgers worship. for what? in saying the pass wasn't perfect? Toure needs to learn to help a QB out? Because I disagree that it was a "terrible" pass? because that's what I disagree with. Not because I think he's a god.
I think he's very intelligent and his attention to details and his expectations in practice probably have driven a few teammates absolutely ****ing nuts to the point they couldn't wait to get away from him. But I also believe the vast majority were made better players by that and love the player and the man. But a few will take the few instances and turn into Rodgers is ruining the team arguments again, which I will defend against. Not because of hero worship, but because I disagree with the exceptions being made the rules.
tynimiller
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LOL Eh is what it is...the sides of the Rodgers haters and apologists have both just got flat insane IMO and I have to find humor in it.
Besides I cannot be Poker, I don't believe WRs are the only position to pick Day 1 lol
BrokenArrow
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Does it not take two?
Totally agree. He may be an "odd" fellow, but he was our leader for 15 years, taking over where Favre left off and giving us hope for 30 straight years. The Packers under Rodgers had them in the Championship conversation every... single... year. They aren't this year. If Rodgers was still in Green Bay, there wouldn't be any of this Packers "will finish last or be drafting in the top 10" talk either. They would still be in the conversation, because he would be leading the team. I'm excited for the future with Love, but along with that, there are also consequences to losing an all-time great at the position.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
LOL... a strawman argument really? I post stats on Mahomes VS Rodgers, showing the difference to what they do for their team via their legs and a few people automatically come to Rodgers defense? How do they dispute that? They say its a typical attack on Rodgers and it has nothing to do with Kelce. I suggest you go read what was said, because if someone was creating a strawman argument, you are pointing the finger the wrong way.
Oh and if you don't recognize sarcasm (my last paragraph), get a sense of humor or stop calling yourself Spanky.
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Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
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Now you are officially on ignore. FO!
well, one might question why a QB's mobility is being brought into a debate about a TE's impact on an offense. The best TE/QB combo in the history of the game was a very immobile QB. I know I wouldn't bring in a QB's mobility or lack of when there is a discussion about a TE's impact on the offense, but that's me.
Considering the history of posts, it's not such a long line to connect the dots why one might think it was made to disparage a certain QB.
and myself, I'd take Kelce on this roster way higher on my wish list, than 10 or so yards more per game from my QB in rushing. I think that's a no brainer. Kind of like that strawman up there.
Considering the history of posts, it's not such a long line to connect the dots why one might think it was made to disparage a certain QB.
and myself, I'd take Kelce on this roster way higher on my wish list, than 10 or so yards more per game from my QB in rushing. I think that's a no brainer. Kind of like that strawman up there.
gopkrs
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Saw that interview. He said it was because of the broken finger/thumb.
Yeah I kind of find myself actually disagreeing with peoples opinions not because I think Rodgers can do no wrong but because I simply think they are wrong.
tynimiller
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I'm sure many have seen me at times to them seem contradictory, but I just struggle with either extreme when discussing Rodgers....far too many have gone too far down their own opinion rabbit hole.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Whether you are way down the Rodgers rabbit hole or just looking at it from a distance, The Packers moved on from a FHOF QB. By doing so, it tells me that they too were weighing the pros and cons of keeping him and by the sounds of it, staying would have been his preferred decision. The guy did a ton for the Packers on the positive side, no denying that. However, the negatives have piled up over the last several years, whether you recognize them or not, the Packers seemed to have.
OldSchool101
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That’s all very fair. We really should practice extra grace because we all need it and I’m the front runner in needing it! So well said in that regard
I’m still an Aaron Rodgers fan and I’ll be keeping an eye on the Jets. I’ve said before; sometimes change is good for all parties. Things with Aaron and our FO went from a little stale to a little personal, to a little dramatic to finishing at disrespectful. At that point it’s just best to move on and imo at that point it’s just not best to try to force someone to do what they don’t want to do.
I’m excited for change because it just seemed contrived (at the end) with Aaron as our leader. He’ll always be a Packer, but his time is nearing an end either way. IF we can get adequate play from Love, we might be talking playoff competitive by as early as the 2024 season. If we can’t? We’ll have the draft firepower to go get our guy.
I’m fine even if we’re picking at our later customary Day1 draft, with our Jets separation collateral. That should still get us a another great player in return for Aaron. We already got Musgrave in exchange, who will be next?
If we waited any longer that trade capital diminishes and we carry more debt because of the weird way that contract unfolded.
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AmishMafia
Cheesehead
This is why these conversations drag and go in circles. I posted 3 reasons that are very valid that contradict your position. You just repeated your same opinion in response. Why do you bother responding if you can't add any insight or data to sway me? I don't care if you don't like my reasoning, but explain why.
I can go into more detail on my 3 points, but it should be fairly obvious.
Your other comment on why throw to other receivers when you have Kelce is very disingenuous. Do I need to count the posts you have made criticizing TT and Gute for not giving Rodgers more weapons? Have you ever posted 'Rodgers has Adams and that works out so well, we don't need more receiving help'? Nope. Because you know how silly that is. It's this kind of post where you defend Rodgers in such a round about non sensical way, that leads to the perception Rodgers can do no wrong in your eyes.
Dantés
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You would say that they ran things to suit his strengths.
I would say that he exerted influence to suit his preferences, some of which are clearly strengths. But the overall impact of his preferred playing style on the offense is negative.
Now that said, I've got no problem with your stance and I don't want to caricature it or you. I'll continue to pipe up when I see things that I think support my read on this situation, because I obviously think I'm right about this. But I don't want to make things personal for those who don't agree.
we're good, i've disagreed with everyone on here at one point or another LOL. You make good points and I don't think there is zero truth or value in them. I just don't see it as much as a negative from Rodgers as I think it is part of pretty much every normal relationship with QB's like him and the staffs of their teams. one could certainly argue his preferred style isn't as effective as others.
I just happen to think it was because of parts of the equation i put forth above not only his strengths, but what they felt they could run with the other personnel available, that had the much larger impact overall on the offensive game plans and dysfunction.
I just happen to think it was because of parts of the equation i put forth above not only his strengths, but what they felt they could run with the other personnel available, that had the much larger impact overall on the offensive game plans and dysfunction.
Dantés
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Yes, I would say it is very normal. Virtually all great QB's, in their latter stages, have a preferred style of play that they either dictate completely (e.g. Peyton Manning) or integrate with the offense (e.g. Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan w/ Shanahan). It's just my opinion that it wasn't helpful, on balance, in this case. I don't believe that the way that Rodgers wants to play is the way to get the most out of the offense.
Here's why this conversation is so hard-- Rodgers is so polarizing as a character in the drama of the NFL that it's hard to say anything about his play, good or bad, without it being interpreted as a comment on his person. If I say "I think he exerted influence on the offensive design and it caused it to suffer," then it's inferred that I think he's a villain undermining the Packers. If you say "I think the offensive shift was more about personnel than preference," then it's inferred that you're a Rodgers homer who can't criticize him.
Hence, where we are in this thread.
Hopefully we can all agree that it's going to be fun seeing what LaFleur can do with Love in an offense that will be "all his."
