Is it time?

[Deleted member 6794]

I think we can roll fine with a similar format going forward, but I’d like to see Marcedes roll out more when possible.

I don't think the Packers using Lewis as a receiver more often is the way to go for the offense to improve.

And now for the one stat that actually means anything:

Rodgers: .545
Manning: .667

Rodgers vs Manning AT LAMBEAU: 0-2

You see, I'm a wins guy. Stats don't mean dic.k

EDIT: Almost forgot: Rodgers 1 Lombari, Manning 2 Lombardis.

Do you understand that football is a team game???

 

[Half Empty]

GB wouldn't have made the playoffs a single year with Eli at the helm. It's almost like teams win games

So the Giants had a better overall team in 2005-2008, 2011, and 2016?

 

[Mavster]

So the Giants had a better overall team in 2005-2008, 2011, and 2016?

The two years they won the SB they absolutely were the better overall team. Their defense was playing phenomenal and their O was doing just enough.

Do people forget that in 2011 GB needed last minute heroics to beat the Giants? Our defense was absolutely garbage that year. We were an extremely flawed team.

 

[Indy Fan]

And now for the one stat that actually means anything:

Rodgers: .545
Manning: .667

Rodgers vs Manning AT LAMBEAU: 0-2

You see, I'm a wins guy. Stats don't mean dic.k

EDIT: Almost forgot: Rodgers 1 Lombari, Manning 2 Lombardis.

Eli's Defense (18.8 ppg allowed; 15.1 ppg in SB runs)
Rodger's Defense (26 ppg allowed; worst I've seen amongst elite QBs)
Rodgers' Packers have only been held under 20 pts once in 22 playoff games. Imagine his win percentage with a competent defense.
Stop falling for the narrative that football is a QB vs QB battle.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't want a 6th olineman, it's just we've needed one to get the production we've had pretty much 3 years running. not this year obviously, but last, everyone thought we were doing so well with a young and shuffling Oline and I'm stitting here thinking, no we don't. They're helped out all the time and it does limit our offense in some big ways. I don't like it, but unless we get a major upgrade to our right side, we're likely going to need it.

We’ve done ok with what we’ve used (TE in a Pass blocking capacity) but that’s more because of a veteran QB and RB group.
Before this season began, in interview w/McAfee, Tonyan eluded to us having to use him at inline TE more earlier in season to cover deficiencies. I think we rely too much on that concept. You take your veteran TE1, who btw is arguably a top 5 Receiving target and is a primary option for #12 and dedicate him to try to shore up a deficiency OL? All that is would be a temporary Bandaid on a substantial injury that’s needs professional attention.
Sure, cover the sore temporary so it’s not infected, but get to the Doctor and get it fixed. Instead we pretend that we don’t need TE1 as a receiver. I’d argue that next to WR1? TE1 is imperative.
Right now we have neither

Look around the league this Postseason. Which teams don’t use a TE as a top couple choice for Receiving? Why do we think it’s ok not to? What do the remaining Winners have in common at TE?
Hayden Hurst
Travis Kelce.
George Kittle
Dallas Goedert

The weakest team at TE has Ja’Marr Chase, Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd for receiving options. In regular season that WR trifecta averaged 946 yards per man

 

[Firethorn1001]

It is far more important for the TE's in GB to be friends with Rodgers, suck up a roster spot and cap space than to have an impact on the field.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't think the Packers using Lewis as a receiver more often is the way to go for the offense to improve.

In the situation we found ourselves in 2022? (Weaker in Receiving options)
I really don’t think Lewis should have Been (notice I’m discussing the past) a primary target, but not attaining 100 yards? That’s basically ignoring a TE who’s shown recent signs of reliable hands and flying under radar. If you go back through history you’ll find he wasn’t just a blocker as we’ve come to know him. He could’ve easily been a tertiary receiving option in that 250 yards range. In an Offense that sputtered? it was a poor plan to ignore him and whatever we thought we were? we weren’t.

Now. Going forward is another matter altogether. Go Get Darnell Washington that would be my choice. If we want a blocker? Sign nasty

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still rather sign a dynamic TE such as Mayer.

 

[Sanguine camper]

After a down season, what can the Packers get in a trade for Rodgers? Is he still worth a first round pick with the team trading for Rodgers knowing that they are getting a high priced Diva. If the Packers can still get a first round pick and free up 16 million in cap space to sign a good young FA, I'd make a trade. Anything less makes it questionable.

 

[Pugger]

Wait a moment. Eli did win in 2007 vs. Favre and 2011 vs. Rodgers. Both were playoff games at Lambeau. However, Rodgers won the Week 16 game of 2010 vs. Eli at Lambeau. He also beat Eli in a regular season game in 2016 and in a post season game at the end of that same year. Both at Lambeau.

I did say he had 2 great runs but outside of those 2 seasons Eli wasn't all that hot.

 

[Pugger]

After a down season, what can the Packers get in a trade for Rodgers? Is he still worth a first round pick with the team trading for Rodgers knowing that they are getting a high priced Diva. If the Packers can still get a first round pick and free up 16 million in cap space to sign a good young FA, I'd make a trade. Anything less makes it questionable.

Would you consider a 2nd round pick palatable? Of course Seattle got a nice haul for Wilson and I believe AR is better than Russ.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Is he still worth a first round pick with the team trading for Rodgers knowing that they are getting a high priced Diva.

Rodgers can bring a 1st at least. Watson got a haul with his baggage and Russell Wilson has his own quirks that stray into people calling him a diva. If I'm the Jets, I come calling. I could deal with Rodgers for a few years.

 

[Half Empty]

The two years they won the SB they absolutely were the better overall team. Their defense was playing phenomenal and their O was doing just enough.

Do people forget that in 2011 GB needed last minute heroics to beat the Giants? Our defense was absolutely garbage that year. We were an extremely flawed team.

If we accept that, it still leaves 05, 06, 08 and 16.

 

[Magooch]

I doubt they'd get the same haul that Seattle got for Wilson - Most would agree Rodgers is better, but he's 5 years older and coming off of a down season and in fact the Wilson trade may well serve as a cautionary tale for some.

Still with that said I think many would probably be surprised at what a QB-needy team might offer to land Rodgers even now. Keep in mind that IIRC he will only cost roughly 16m against the cap in 2023/24 for a team trading for him and exercising his option.

The Jets pick at #13 would almost certainly be in play and I think that would be the minimum/baseline.

 

[tynimiller]

Jets can package easily something I'd find palatable (1st and say 3rd or 4th this year) plus either another future 1 or maybe two future Day 2s. Leave them with one top 50 pick still this year (2nd) and a roster of weapons and a strong defense Rodgers very well might win a ton of games with.

Dolphins can do a similar thing roster wise but they don't have a one this year...so far more in future picks I bet come back as they'll cling to what they have this year more.

 

[adambr2]

Then what was the point?

https://www.packerforum.com/attachments/18899/

The point was that a player who never has taken or offered any kind of hometown discount (again, not that he should be expected to) is clearly an individual who places a high importance on money, like most players.

Like most players who place a high importance on money, it seems unlikely to assume that said player would retire and willingly walk away from 60 million dollars.

I really thought all this was apparent in the context of the original message.

 

[Pugger]

Rodgers can bring a 1st at least. Watson got a haul with his baggage and Russell Wilson has his own quirks that stray into people calling him a diva. If I'm the Jets, I come calling. I could deal with Rodgers for a few years.

Peter King is reporting he believes GB wants 2 first round picks for Rodgers. I can't see the Jets or anybody else paying that kind of price for a 40 year old QB who's best days are behind him for that kind of compensation and coin.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Peter King is reporting he believes GB wants 2 first round picks for Rodgers. I can't see the Jets or anybody else paying that kind of price for a 40 year old QB who's best days are behind him for that kind of compensation and coin.

Never underestimate QB needy teams.

Rams pushed their draft chips in the center. Jets think Rodgers could give them 2 years, 1 of which is a SB, 2 1sts (one of which is the #13 this year and them thinking next's years 1st is like 29-32 range?) If there is even a remote bidding war with NYJ, Tennessee and Oakland then I could see 2 1sts.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Before this season began, in interview w/McAfee, Tonyan eluded to us having to use him at inline TE more earlier in season to cover deficiencies. I think we rely too much on that concept. You take your veteran TE1, who btw is arguably a top 5 Receiving target and is a primary option for #12 and dedicate him to try to shore up a deficiency OL?

Tonyan was used as a blocker on a smaller percentage of his snaps this season (34.0%) than he was during his breakout season in 2020 (37.7%).

I really don’t think Lewis should have Been (notice I’m discussing the past) a primary target, but not attaining 100 yards? That’s basically ignoring a TE who’s shown recent signs of reliable hands and flying under radar. If you go back through history you’ll find he wasn’t just a blocker as we’ve come to know him. He could’ve easily been a tertiary receiving option in that 250 yards range. In an Offense that sputtered? it was a poor plan to ignore him and whatever we thought we were? we weren’t.

I'm fully aware that Lewis put up decent numbers as a receiver early in his career but there's a reason he has exceeded 250 yards only once since 2013. As I have mentioned before using him more often as a target wouldn't have been an answer to the team's offensive woes.

After a down season, what can the Packers get in a trade for Rodgers? Is he still worth a first round pick with the team trading for Rodgers knowing that they are getting a high priced Diva. If the Packers can still get a first round pick and free up 16 million in cap space to sign a good young FA, I'd make a trade.

The Packers wouldn't save $16 million of cap space by trading Rodgers though.

 

[milani]

Peter King is reporting he believes GB wants 2 first round picks for Rodgers. I can't see the Jets or anybody else paying that kind of price for a 40 year old QB who's best days are behind him for that kind of compensation and coin.

BUT!!! ......There are always the RAIDERS. The one team in the league with a history of bug gambling deals.

 

[tynimiller]

I could see two first rounders IF one is a conditional 1st rounder. Truthfully if I'm GB I'd take something similar to a Jets deal looking like this:

Jets send:
2023 - #13 Pick
2023 - #114 Pick
2024 - 2nd Rounder (conditionally to 1st)
+ an additional higher Day 3 in 2024 or 2025

GB sends:
Aaron Rodgers
2023 #147

I know many will think that is too low for arguably one of the most skilled QBs ever to walk a field...BUT you have to take age and cap cost of the acquiring team. Adding a veteran QB has 100% worked of late for teams (Manning to Denver / Brady to TB / Stafford to Rams) - there is many recent case files to defend the concept of a veteran QB being that final piece to go grab the SB.

 

[Mondio]

I could see two first rounders IF one is a conditional 1st rounder. Truthfully if I'm GB I'd take something similar to a Jets deal looking like this:

Jets send:
2023 - #13 Pick
2023 - #114 Pick
2024 - 2nd Rounder (conditionally to 1st)
+ an additional higher Day 3 in 2024 or 2025

GB sends:
Aaron Rodgers
2023 #147

I know many will think that is too low for arguably one of the most skilled QBs ever to walk a field...BUT you have to take age and cap cost of the acquiring team. Adding a veteran QB has 100% worked of late for teams (Manning to Denver / Brady to TB / Stafford to Rams) - there is many recent case files to defend the concept of a veteran QB being that final piece to go grab the SB.

I wouldn't be opposed, but i also can't help think THIS team could be the one to win a super bowl too. Another draft like the last one, with some growth from the previous years and avoid that injury bug, why not? I'm no QB guru, but I also watched him a lot this year. I don't think the struggles have as much to do with him falling off physically as people think it might. Yeah he's not 30 anymore, but he's far from done.

 

[tynimiller]

I wouldn't be opposed, but i also can't help think THIS team could be the one to win a super bowl too. Another draft like the last one, with some growth from the previous years and avoid that injury bug, why not? I'm no QB guru, but I also watched him a lot this year. I don't think the struggles have as much to do with him falling off physically as people think it might. Yeah he's not 30 anymore, but he's far from done.

Personally speaking I believe it is all going to comedown of vision of GB and vision of Rodgers and whether he wants to play under the situation they present roster wise.

I know folks downplay it but I don't - Rodgers has continually brought up playing with Lewis, Tonyan, Lazard, Cobb and Crosby time and time again. I think the crux of the decision is who does GB think is wise and the right call to bring back and is Rodgers comfortable with that...if not I truly think this road is getting awfully close to the end.

 

[Pkrjones]

Why would ANY team trade away 2 1st round picks + for a former MVP player for 2 years of service AND pay them top$$? Would you, as a GM, trade 2 1st round picks AND $70+ mil for 2 years of service for Jamaar Chase, AJ Brown, Mc Caffrey? 2 1sts for 2 years for any player is steep, IMHO.

 

[Magooch]

I don't think two firsts is out of the question honestly.

The Jets for instance had a top 5 defense in DVOA to finish the season and I believe about halfway through the season they were also in the top 5 in total DVOA. That defense is legit, they're solid on special teams, and have some solid pieces on offense. They've got an exciting WR room with Wilson, Moore, Davis...a couple of reliable TEs in Conklin and Uzomah. And Breece Hall was arguably the frontrunner for OROY before his injury. (And Wilson may well end up winning it himself...) So they may very well be looking at their situation and thinking "We did pretty decent still with Wilson/Flacco/White" and could certainly see them looking at Rodgers and thinking this year was an outlier (Gutted WR room, semi-injured most the season, etc) and that he's the last piece they need to put them over the top.

For a team who I believe has the longest active playoff appearance drought (last made playoffs in 2010 IIRC) and the second-longest Super Bowl appearance drought (54 years, behind only the Browns and Lions who have never made it)...if you were in that situation and were firmly convinced that even one season of high-level QB play (and perhaps this is where Rodgers selling himself with "I can win MVP again in the right situation comes into play) is enough to get you back into the playoffs and make a push for the Super Bowl...almost everyone would happily give up two firsts for that chance.

Or for instance you could have mutual interest for the Raiders. Rodgers gets to team up with Davante and the Raiders can look back and say "Look at how good this guy was last time they played together". And so on...not saying it all totally holds up, but historically teams have been able to convince themselves of a LOT when they are in need of a QB...

That said I would suspect something like a 1st and conditional 1st would be more likely, or something like a 1st and 2nd this year and then a 2nd and 3rd next year or something like that.

 

[Firethorn1001]

I know folks downplay it but I don't - Rodgers has continually brought up playing with Lewis, Tonyan, Lazard, Cobb and Crosby time and time again.

I probably put too much into that. As the GM, there is absolutely no way that I can be held hostage to 10-15% of the roster by any one player not to mention the cap implications of trying to retain a bunch of guys when you are already hard up on the cap as a result of trying to placate him in the first place.

"Well.. you gotta make your QB happy"

I don't believe Aaron Rodgers will ever be happy. You deal with his demands now and guess what? Next year will be something else. Some other beautiful mystery where he will need to go to Peru, eat some transcendent french fry and hope the Dalai Lama tells him 'Gunga galunga… gunga, gunga-lagunga'. Just another dog and pony show.