Tyni's 2023 November Mock

RicFlairoftheNFL

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You did catch the part of Newman doesn’t keep a spot it isn’t a big deal. It is poor practice getting rid of starting experienced guys on rookie contracts before you have a replacement for him.
Getting rid of him is what I hope the draft accomplishes
 
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tynimiller

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Not if there not any good

But that statement cannot be made. It is a VERY hard task even being in the NFL for as long as Newman has, let alone having starts under your belt. Newman has not progressed since his, actually pretty dang good for a rookie cast into a starting role - true. Also true is it would IMO be a very ignorant move to just cast him aside, when he is on a rookie contract and knows his NFL life is on the cutting table in his final year of his rookie deal this next year. You let him lose his spot, you don't cut him and potentially have a UDFA with ZERO starts or experience here having to take his spot.
 

AmishMafia

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One a month is the limit I'm doing. I personally don't expect we stay beneath 12th or so, but time will show.
Yeah. I suspect we will be right around 16ish. So it's nice to run the simulators now - because there is a distinct drop-off around 12 or so.

So I am thinking either S Cooper DeJean or Taliese Fuaga. Safety is a big need. But Fuaga fills a need as well AND he brings the attitude we need on the OL. He has a violent and mean streak to him that is certainly lacking. What do you think?
 
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tynimiller

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Yeah. I suspect we will be right around 16ish. So it's nice to run the simulators now - because there is a distinct drop-off around 12 or so.

So I am thinking either S Cooper DeJean or Taliese Fuaga. Safety is a big need. But Fuaga fills a need as well AND he brings the attitude we need on the OL. He has a violent and mean streak to him that is certainly lacking. What do you think?

I have Cooper as one of my top elite dudes and to me he offers just overall DB roles, could play corner, slot or either safety.

I am mixed on Fuaga, but not in any sense of him not being worthy of a top 50 draft pick but in whether I see him translating to the NFL as a tackle or not...and if I see a guard most likely I struggle unless later mid first at the earliest if going strictly BPA I bet I have quite a few above him if say we are sitting their at say 15 and picking.

Dude is a nasty run blocker, but he is also the epitome of why folks sometimes struggle to understand both run blocking and pass blocking are entirely different and some guys EXCEL at pass blocking but are bad or so/so at run blocking. Fuaga is that, when he can be on the attack there isn't a defender out there that feels safe if the run is going Fuaga's direction...however his deflection ability in the pass pro is limited by his less than ideal arm length it seems (waiting for measurements to confirm what eyes/film say) and his handwork in pass pro is rough to say the least. Rushers that feast on quick rips and hand wins will eat him up...what they cannot do is bull rush Fuaga, if Fuaga feels a bullrush is happening or a guy is merely trying to contain and push - his power and aggression will quickly shift that moment and that defender will absolutely get controlled on that pass rush. To a lessor degree speed rushers will find it hard again unless they have counter moves or are good with their hands because Fuaga has the elite foot speed to catch up to most...but again just doesn't have that proactive mirroring ability we see in other IMO better pure tackles. He's also only had experience at right tackle and unless we want to move Tom inside I don't want us to draft high a RT that the staff may have pegged solely as a right tackle.

I think if we drafted him his best place is RG right beside Tom at RT OR perhaps Tom goes over to LT and Rhyan tries RT (he was a LT in college). Either way Fuaga to me is a surefire starter on about 95% of teams in the NFL day 1 as a guard...maybe a couple at LT and depending on the system could be a RT easily on twenty or so. That is a STRONG profile so don't take it wrong my hesitation. He is my personal 33rd currently ranked prospect on my board.
 

AmishMafia

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I have Cooper as one of my top elite dudes and to me he offers just overall DB roles, could play corner, slot or either safety.

I am mixed on Fuaga, but not in any sense of him not being worthy of a top 50 draft pick but in whether I see him translating to the NFL as a tackle or not...and if I see a guard most likely I struggle unless later mid first at the earliest if going strictly BPA I bet I have quite a few above him if say we are sitting their at say 15 and picking.

Dude is a nasty run blocker, but he is also the epitome of why folks sometimes struggle to understand both run blocking and pass blocking are entirely different and some guys EXCEL at pass blocking but are bad or so/so at run blocking. Fuaga is that, when he can be on the attack there isn't a defender out there that feels safe if the run is going Fuaga's direction...however his deflection ability in the pass pro is limited by his less than ideal arm length it seems (waiting for measurements to confirm what eyes/film say) and his handwork in pass pro is rough to say the least. Rushers that feast on quick rips and hand wins will eat him up...what they cannot do is bull rush Fuaga, if Fuaga feels a bullrush is happening or a guy is merely trying to contain and push - his power and aggression will quickly shift that moment and that defender will absolutely get controlled on that pass rush. To a lessor degree speed rushers will find it hard again unless they have counter moves or are good with their hands because Fuaga has the elite foot speed to catch up to most...but again just doesn't have that proactive mirroring ability we see in other IMO better pure tackles. He's also only had experience at right tackle and unless we want to move Tom inside I don't want us to draft high a RT that the staff may have pegged solely as a right tackle.

I think if we drafted him his best place is RG right beside Tom at RT OR perhaps Tom goes over to LT and Rhyan tries RT (he was a LT in college). Either way Fuaga to me is a surefire starter on about 95% of teams in the NFL day 1 as a guard...maybe a couple at LT and depending on the system could be a RT easily on twenty or so. That is a STRONG profile so don't take it wrong my hesitation. He is my personal 33rd currently ranked prospect on my board.
I was expecting just a "Yeah he's pretty good". Thanks for the time and depth!
 
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I have Cooper as one of my top elite dudes and to me he offers just overall DB roles, could play corner, slot or either safety.

I am mixed on Fuaga, but not in any sense of him not being worthy of a top 50 draft pick but in whether I see him translating to the NFL as a tackle or not...and if I see a guard most likely I struggle unless later mid first at the earliest if going strictly BPA I bet I have quite a few above him if say we are sitting their at say 15 and picking.

Dude is a nasty run blocker, but he is also the epitome of why folks sometimes struggle to understand both run blocking and pass blocking are entirely different and some guys EXCEL at pass blocking but are bad or so/so at run blocking. Fuaga is that, when he can be on the attack there isn't a defender out there that feels safe if the run is going Fuaga's direction...however his deflection ability in the pass pro is limited by his less than ideal arm length it seems (waiting for measurements to confirm what eyes/film say) and his handwork in pass pro is rough to say the least. Rushers that feast on quick rips and hand wins will eat him up...what they cannot do is bull rush Fuaga, if Fuaga feels a bullrush is happening or a guy is merely trying to contain and push - his power and aggression will quickly shift that moment and that defender will absolutely get controlled on that pass rush. To a lessor degree speed rushers will find it hard again unless they have counter moves or are good with their hands because Fuaga has the elite foot speed to catch up to most...but again just doesn't have that proactive mirroring ability we see in other IMO better pure tackles. He's also only had experience at right tackle and unless we want to move Tom inside I don't want us to draft high a RT that the staff may have pegged solely as a right tackle.

I think if we drafted him his best place is RG right beside Tom at RT OR perhaps Tom goes over to LT and Rhyan tries RT (he was a LT in college). Either way Fuaga to me is a surefire starter on about 95% of teams in the NFL day 1 as a guard...maybe a couple at LT and depending on the system could be a RT easily on twenty or so. That is a STRONG profile so don't take it wrong my hesitation. He is my personal 33rd currently ranked prospect on my board.
That was cool. I was going to ask you your thoughts on Fuaga before I read this, as he’s been available on quite a few Mocks. Good overview.

I will say in general that past about #10-12 he’s one of the better rated Tackle prospects (consensus in the Teens on him) OT seems to be a pretty sought after position. Particularly this year as there’s not very many iDL options at the top.

Also Fuaga another + is he’s an another aga. You know. Bulaga
 
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tynimiller

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That was cool. I was going to ask you your thoughts on Fuaga before I read this, as he’s been available on quite a few Mocks. Good overview.

I will say in general that past about #10-12 he’s one of the better rated Tackle prospects (consensus in the Teens on him) OT seems to be a pretty sought after position. Particularly this year as there’s not very many iDL options at the top.

Also Fuaga another + is he’s an another aga. You know. Bulaga

Tackles I'm picking before Fuaga without hesitation are:

Left Tackles - Obviously Olu and Alt, but then Morgan / Barton / Paul all are guys if Tackle especially Left Tackle is my reason for drafting him I'm not picking him.

Right Tackles - Latham / Guyton and Mims all are guys I'd have to strongly consider.

Fuaga is above some of them solely because of the high elite level guard I see in him potentially with chance RT as well.


My top few LT tackle board is:

LT1 - Olumuyiwa Fashanu
LT2a - Joe Alt
LT 2b - Jordan Morgan
LT4 - Patrick Paul
LT6a - Graham Barton
LT6b - Kiran Amegadjie

My RT tackle board is:
RT1 - Latham
RT2 - Mims
RT3 - Guyton
RT4 - Fisher
RT5 - Laumea

I won't place my prospect board number as that is still ironing out and I don't have it memorized but I do know the order of those 11 as of right now:

Olumuyiwa Fashanu
Joe Alt
Jordan Morgan
JC Latham
Amarius Mims
Tyler Guyton
Patrick Paul
Graham Barton
Kiran Amegadjie
Blake Fisher
Sataoa Laumea
 

RicFlairoftheNFL

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There are only so many draft picks...and truthfully it would take about four actual draft picks to reach where Newman is on the depth chart right now however.
Just did a mock on Fanspeak with NO trades. With the 11 picks and with needs at 6 spots I got the following positions: 2 Linebackers, 2 CB, 2 OT, 2 G 1 C and 1 RB

Go into FA get another T and G Newman's updating his resume
 
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tynimiller

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Just did a mock on Fanspeak with NO trades. With the 11 picks and with needs at 6 spots I got the following positions: 2 Linebackers, 2 CB, 2 OT, 2 G 1 C and 1 RB

Go into FA get another T and G Newman's updating his resume
Sorry but if Gute drafts that many lineman I may be very concerned for his sanity unless it is a massive day 3 haul of them I guess and no top end. Not the way to go IMO but just me
 

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Sorry but if Gute drafts that many lineman I may be very concerned for his sanity unless it is a massive day 3 haul of them I guess and no top end. Not the way to go IMO but just me
An OT in rd 1, and a OG and OC on day 2. The other 2 day 2 picks are a DB and a RB.

Day 3 is whoever stands out.
 

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For me it is 2 OL, one has to be a LT, 2 DBs, one has to be a Safety and a RB.
 

Poppa San

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Tankathon updates after each game.

If Carolina wins another game, does that knock Chicago out of the 1st pick assuming NE & Cards lose out?
 

RicFlairoftheNFL

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Sorry but if Gute drafts that many lineman I may be very concerned for his sanity unless it is a massive day 3 haul of them I guess and no top end. Not the way to go IMO but just me
I did the mock based on how I see the team...the O-Line room is swiss cheese right now
 
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tynimiller

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I did the mock based on how I see the team...the O-Line room is swiss cheese right now

I just don't see it - for sure room for improvement and I am thinking we see two new starters...or one minimum if Rhyan earns the RG spot in the off season, but we are still dealing with a few centerpieces along that OL that many teams would hope for. When speaking on just pass pro - they've been one of the better units in all of football, and really only hit a hiccup in that at the Giants.

Currently, for what it is worth we have the 6th best rated pass blocking unit and 18th run blocking unit per PFF metrics.

We have three OL with just massively impressive season scores of over 70.0 which over 70 is just flat tough to do - those are Jenkins, Tom and Walker. Runyan and Yosh are at 64.9, Myers at 60.8 and Rhyan down at 41.1.

Run blocking Tom is the only above 70 and is nearly 80 at 78.4. Next highest is a decent 63.6 in Yosh with Jenkins (61.3) and Walker (62.7) being the only others over 60.0.

Truthfully - RG is our weakest link both from metrics and watching the All22 - neither Runyan or Rhyan want to control that position...and the cycling between Walker and Yosh is odd because truthfully on the whole Walker is forming into a fairly decent/solid rookie LT for sure. I know many feel LT is our biggest concern and I would 100% embrace one, but RG is for sure a bigger hole from a play perspective right now and I could see us potentially even draft a pure RT and just say let that draftee and Tom figure out where on the right side they work best together. Draft Walker some real competition and test the crap out of Bakh physically and if it seems he's done you gotta cut him asap to have the cap savings.
 

RicFlairoftheNFL

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I just don't see it - for sure room for improvement and I am thinking we see two new starters...or one minimum if Rhyan earns the RG spot in the off season, but we are still dealing with a few centerpieces along that OL that many teams would hope for. When speaking on just pass pro - they've been one of the better units in all of football, and really only hit a hiccup in that at the Giants.

Currently, for what it is worth we have the 6th best rated pass blocking unit and 18th run blocking unit per PFF metrics.

We have three OL with just massively impressive season scores of over 70.0 which over 70 is just flat tough to do - those are Jenkins, Tom and Walker. Runyan and Yosh are at 64.9, Myers at 60.8 and Rhyan down at 41.1.

Run blocking Tom is the only above 70 and is nearly 80 at 78.4. Next highest is a decent 63.6 in Yosh with Jenkins (61.3) and Walker (62.7) being the only others over 60.0.

Truthfully - RG is our weakest link both from metrics and watching the All22 - neither Runyan or Rhyan want to control that position...and the cycling between Walker and Yosh is odd because truthfully on the whole Walker is forming into a fairly decent/solid rookie LT for sure. I know many feel LT is our biggest concern and I would 100% embrace one, but RG is for sure a bigger hole from a play perspective right now and I could see us potentially even draft a pure RT and just say let that draftee and Tom figure out where on the right side they work best together. Draft Walker some real competition and test the crap out of Bakh physically and if it seems he's done you gotta cut him asap to have the cap savings.
You've given me information that honestly I didn't look for. The ONLY grade I looked at was the 1st guy that should be out of the lineup and that's Myers at 64.8 overall. To me that's a D...there are no curves when trying to protect a quarterback.
 
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tynimiller

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You've given me information that honestly I didn't look for. The ONLY grade I looked at was the 1st guy that should be out of the lineup and that's Myers at 64.8 overall. To me that's a D...there are no curves when trying to protect a quarterback.

LOL...by seeing a 64.8 as a D just means you don't realize the PFF grading scale.

Myers grade overall (which is not 64.8 not sure where you saw that but 61.1 per PFF) puts him as the 21st Center in the league presently...with only six centers even getting a "B grade" if we use your interpretation. And of the remaining only 6 others have "C grade" if using your interpretation.

Now none of this is to say Myers is amazing, or should be viewed as a guy to build around, nope. BUT, right now There are 17 centers that have met the minimum snap count PFF requires (only 39 met it) that have a below 60.0 rating. It is VERY TOUGH to be an NFL center, even TOUGHER to excel at it which would be flirting IMO with a 70+ or be all pro type level (80+).
 

RicFlairoftheNFL

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LOL...by seeing a 64.8 as a D just means you don't realize the PFF grading scale.

Myers grade overall (which is not 64.8 not sure where you saw that but 61.1 per PFF) puts him as the 21st Center in the league presently...with only six centers even getting a "B grade" if we use your interpretation. And of the remaining only 6 others have "C grade" if using your interpretation.

Now none of this is to say Myers is amazing, or should be viewed as a guy to build around, nope. BUT, right now There are 17 centers that have met the minimum snap count PFF requires (only 39 met it) that have a below 60.0 rating. It is VERY TOUGH to be an NFL center, even TOUGHER to excel at it which would be flirting IMO with a 70+ or be all pro type level (80+).
By mentioning he was 21st in the league you kinda made my point. We can and need to do better to be successful.
 

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