Hypothetical Rodgers trade with the Raiders

Pkrjones

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If he's gone we need to spend a day 2 pick or early day 3 to replace him. So no real gain except to mollify the pundits whining about AR12 being disrespected.
IF Gute would go this route I'd look at bringing in an old vet as backup for a year or 2... Alex Smith, Josh McCown, or maybe even Brett Hundley for a 2nd go round.

There are so many ???'s about QB's in this draft I would think there'd be some hidden gems in Rd 7 or UDFA's to try on PS. Maybe Franks, who Dantes noted has a RAS score of 9.56 but needs coaching-up on mechanics and reading D's?

I also wouldn't take LESS than #20 for Love (except for NO + sweetener)... too many QB-needy teams and Love has a year of tutelage behind AR so theoretically he's better than in '20.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Not sure why the Packers would even consider trading Love right now. There is a reason that the Packers drafted him and I kind of doubt even AR having an MVP Season, is going to change things much.

If anything, hang on to him for at least 2 years, give him some preseason and possible regular season and really see what you have.

Imagine had the Packers traded Rodgers and kept Favre around another 3 or 4 years.
 

captainWIMM

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Possibly if you inserted the word "more" between "any" and "guaranteed", that would make sense. However, I consider the guaranteed money of nearly $100M that the Packers invested in Rodgers at the beginning of the contract, as a commitment by both sides for the length of the contract.

As long as teams can walk away from non-guaranteed money included in a contract without any negative affect on their cap situation I don't blame any player for wanting some commitment at that point.

Back to Favre: In '91 he had 6 pass attempts, zero completions except the two to the defense. Gee that Ron Wolf guy was a friggin moron to send a higher pick to Atlanta to get him than they used to draft him.

How often has a trade like that happened in the last 30 years though??? As mentioned repeatedly I don't see any teams lining up to give up a first rounder for Love at this point after passing on him in last year's draft.

What are the chances Gute sticks with AR long-term, extends him another 2 years, and trades away Love? Swing a trade with: Washington (#19); NO (#28 & #133 for Love & #142); New England's #15; or dare I say Chicago's #20?

Zero.

IF Gute would go this route I'd look at bringing in an old vet as backup for a year or 2... Alex Smith, Josh McCown, or maybe even Brett Hundley for a 2nd go round.

The Packers should definitely not be interested in Hundley.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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As long as teams can walk away from non-guaranteed money included in a contract without any negative affect on their cap situation I don't blame any player for wanting some commitment at that point.
Yet said player, in this case Aaron Rodgers, already received upfront (key word) commitment money of $100 M.

I understand your thought process for players that never received any or very little guaranteed money and are a simple cut away from being unemployed. However, to think that the Packers need to reseed their already huge commitment to Rodgers is unnecessary to me. If I am paid $20k upfront to replace a roof, I'm not going to stop midjob and say to the home owner "pretty damn good job that I'm doing right? I think you should kick in another $5000 so that I feel like you are appreciative of my work before it's complete."
 

captainWIMM

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If I am paid $20k upfront to replace a roof, I'm not going to stop midjob and say to the home owner "pretty damn good job that I'm doing right? I think you should kick in another $5000 so that I feel like you are appreciative of my work before it's complete."

That's not what is happening with the Packers and Rodgers though.

To use your analogy a company agreed to pay you a total of $40K to replace a roof over a period of five months, giving you $20K upfront. After two months they weren't happy with the progress and therefore obtained an offer from another company to complete the job. A month later you made that much progress that it's obvious your the best choice to complete the job yet the company declines to guarantee paying you the rest of the money previously agreed upon while keeping their options open to replace you before the job is finished.

How would you feel about that???
 

Pokerbrat2000

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That's not what is happening with the Packers and Rodgers though.

To use your analogy a company agreed to pay you a total of $40K to replace a roof over a period of five months, giving you $20K upfront. After two months they weren't happy with the progress and therefore obtained an offer from another company to complete the job. A month later you made that much progress that it's obvious your the best choice to complete the job yet the company declines to guarantee paying you the rest of the money previously agreed upon while keeping their options open to replace you before the job is finished.

How would you feel about that???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rodgers agreed to the terms of his contract, which included a ton of upfront guaranteed money, as well as the potential for the Packers to terminate or trade the contract to another team, at any time?

I doubt many, if any roofing contracts include that language, so to answer your question, I would ask the company that hired me to check the contract.

I think we are also confusing 2 things in this discussion. First, some are proposing that the Packers recommit to Rodgers with a new contract. A contract that I assume would pay him more money, including more bonuses and guaranteed money. Given his age and the fact that he still has 3 years left on his current contract, I would be opposed to that. The second option, which maybe is what you are implying, is to push short term money owed to him this year, out into the future, so as to free up more cap space for this season. If that was a favorable cap and team move for now and the future, I would be fine with that. However, it shouldn't include any new money.

Let me ask you this, would you be fine with the Packers tearing up his current contract, to show their commitment to him and giving him a contract similar to the one that Deshaun Watson just signed?
 
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Mondio

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If I’m doing a job and they’re paying me 75% of my completed cost up front and I have zero overhead in the game other than myself to show up and work and they want to be able to say keep what we paid you were going with someone else and I can get the same job tomorrow for another guaranteed amount? Sign me right up!
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Again, I love Aaron Rodgers, but it's actually kind of laughable that with 3 years left on his HUGE contract (biggest ever at the time), if Rodgers and/or fans think he should get more money than he already has been/will get paid. After all, isn't one of the big complaints of some is that "the Packers aren't doing enough to give Rodgers more SB rings?" So if THAT really is the case and is THAT important, shouldn't Aaron be saying "look, I can throw some money back into the cap on a new deal by taking a pay cut, lets go get a couple of more weapons and win a SB!" Instead, people are expecting the Packers to "recommit and pacify him" with more money and most likely in the process screw the organizations future once he is gone?
 

captainWIMM

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rodgers agreed to the terms of his contract, which included a ton of upfront guaranteed money, as well as the potential for the Packers to terminate or trade the contract to another team, at any time?

I'm surprised you seem to side with the owners when it comes to player contracts but you're obviously right that Rodgers agreed to the terms of his contract.

First, some are proposing that the Packers recommit to Rodgers with a new contract. A contract that I assume would pay him more money, including more bonuses and guaranteed money. Given his age and the fact that he still has 3 years left on his current contract, I would be opposed to that. The second option, which maybe is what you are implying, is to push short term money owed to him this year, out into the future, so as to free up more cap space for this season. If that was a favorable cap and team move for now and the future, I would be fine with that. However, it shouldn't include any new money.

Let me ask you this, would you be fine with the Packers tearing up his current contract, to show their commitment to him and giving him a contract similar to the one that Deshaun Watson just signed?

I have never advocated for the Packers to offer Rodgers any new money. In my opinion it should have been a no-brainer to restructure his contract this offseason to create much needed cap space to further improve the roster though.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I'm surprised you seem to side with the owners when it comes to player contracts but you're obviously right that Rodgers agreed to the terms of his contract.



I have never advocated for the Packers to offer Rodgers any new money. In my opinion it should have been a no-brainer to restructure his contract this offseason to create much needed cap space to further improve the roster though.
I'm not really siding for owners, more than I'm tired of where professional sports have gotten with the obscene amounts of money made by most involved, including the owners, but that is a whole other discussion. I'm also someone who believes in a contract. I can't remember your words, but i believe you (maybe it was someone else?) mentioned that "Rodgers could "refuse to play and demand a trade" or something like that. Which to me is exactly what I dislike about what has happened in the NFL, agents/players deciding honoring the terms of a contract isn't as important as them making more millions of dollars.

All that said, it sounds like you aren't advocating for Rodgers contract to be renegotiated anyway. So that is good to hear. As far as shifting his money around, the door hasn't closed on that yet, so who knows what could happen.
 
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captainWIMM

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I'm also someone who believes in a contract. I can't remember your words, but i believe you (maybe it was someone else?) mentioned that "Rodgers could "refuse to play and demand a trade" or something like that. Which to me is exactly what I dislike about what has happened in the NFL, agents/players deciding honoring the terms of a contract isn't as important as them making more millions of dollars.

I'm definitely opposed against players not honoring the contracts they signed as well.

But I don't believe Rodgers is threatening to do that by any means. It seems he just wants to have a guarantee that the team doesn't plan on moving on from him after this season.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I'm definitely opposed against players not honoring the contracts they signed as well.

But I don't believe Rodgers is threatening to do that by any means. It seems he just wants to have a guarantee that the team doesn't plan on moving on from him after this season.

Then not sure what we are debating about? Is it just that they didn't push the cap hit of his roster bonus out for cap purposes that you are disappointed? So besides new money, what kind of guarantee are you hoping for that says to Aaron "You're our guy for at least 3 more years"?
 

PikeBadger

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I'm definitely opposed against players not honoring the contracts they signed as well.

But I don't believe Rodgers is threatening to do that by any means. It seems he just wants to have a guarantee that the team doesn't plan on moving on from him after this season.
I’d be surprised if Love was ready after the end of this season.

that said, Rodgers signed the contract and had to have known the Packers had an easier out as the length of the contract progressed. The Packers don’t owe him any guarantees. We have no idea whether Rodgers will suffer a debilitating injury or will suffer another concussion and walk right into a game show host job during the middle of a season.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I wonder how much of this desire to "lock Rodgers up" as some sort of show of commitment is more fan generated, as well as media, than it is actually Rodgers himself. I can understand Rodgers wanting more money and wanting the Packers to surround him with more talent, but he is smart enough to know that those 2 things can't really work all that harmoniously together. IF all he cared about was the team and winning, then he should take a pay cut and give the team the money to spend on better pieces. If he thinks the team should throw caution to the wind, not care about the long term future of the organization and go all in, to win now.....then F him. Fortunately, I don't think that is what he wants. Hell, he would make more money if he asked for a trade and a new contract, in a much bigger market than that of Green Bay.
 

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I think you hit it right on the nail head Pokerbrat. I think all this noise is coming from people with no accountability to the team. I’d be very surprised if I found out that this junk originated from Rodgers but slightly less surprised if it started with his agent. This really sounds like it began from a national media clown and was jumped on by fans.
 

Mondio

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I bet when other players are opting out of OTA's because of Covid, if the Packers have some, Rodgers will be there. Like usual. Because whatever he may think on the inside, he knows the game. The guy with the greatest control over how long he's a packer is himself, the same way he's approached every day of every year of his career. he's trying to be the best.
 
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The second to the last thing I want is for them to hang on to a declining Rodgers because they feel they owe it to him.
Not saying this to dispute your post, just as a casual observation.
That’s the thing. It doesn’t look like we should be overly concerned with “declining” Rodgers (this season for sure) after watching him shred teams left n right. Had we been slightly more healthy at O-Line, we were very close to being the best team out there. Arguably the best at Offense anyway.
Only Time will tell, but Aaron Rodgers clearly has several good years in his tires and there’s an outside chance he could play well into his early 40’s.

I highly doubt any team who passed on Love in last year's draft would be interested in giving up a first rounder on a player thst hasn't even taken a snap since.
. Obviously teams’ draft needs change season to season, that’s one argument.
I don’t see a QB being a year in the Packers system as being a negative like you and some others do. IMO, That in itself wouldn’t detract from his value as if 1 years training camp and practice detracts from future success. If anything it’s a + to Love’s value.

The point being, people who argue that popular “never taken a snap” concept always seem to do it rhetorically. Which college QB being drafted has played even 1 snap in the NFL? That’s another rhetorical question just to make a point. They’re all a gamble.
Unless you can explain in detail why he’s less valuable than any other college athlete being drafted I don’t get that argument. The only offset I can think of is he’s 1 year older and 1 less year Rookie contract

Also, it may be highly unlikely he’d get the EXACT value at #26 or whatever. But it’s not like at all unlikely we couldn’t get a late day 1 selection or even early day 2 selection (to accommodate 1 lost year of contract). I’d be completely ok with #33-#40 overall.. anything beyond that I’d gamble and keep him as my #2, who knows he might be the next Aaron Rodgers! :whistling:

PS.
Mel Kizer had him going #24 overall
Matt Miller had him #13 overall
Jeremiah had Love going to the Colts at #13 overall “because he might need to sit 1 year”
Doug Farrer had him #23 overall
Will Brinson had him #20 to Jacksonville.
The general consensus was 1st rounder.
Many more had Love top 15-20 overall
 
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JDPackers

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I know one day, we'll move on. I'm in no hurry to do so or gamble :)

pulling that handle again is how the house wins. They always win in the end just like father time will win here too eventually. I'd view trading Rodgers now like looking at the football gods and taunting the **** out of them. They blows they'd rain back down on us would be unimaginable LOL. Being a Lions fan would look like a long way up from where we'd be.

I drove an old Pontiac Vibe well past the 200K mark just because I bought it with little money and that car did nothing but run and run and run and cost me nothing but oil changes and gas for a long time even though I had a 50K truck sitting in my driveway waiting to take me places. I didn't want to **** off the car gods either. Eventually I sold it and go figure, little things happen every year with this truck since new.

I drove a Vibe, too....great car. I think I got to 160,000 before I sold it. It ate tires, but everything else was great.
 

sschind

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Not saying this to dispute your post, just as a casual observation.
That’s the thing. It doesn’t look like we should be overly concerned with “declining” Rodgers (this season for sure) after watching him shred teams left n right. Had we been slightly more healthy at O-Line, we were very close to being the best team out there. Arguably the best at Offense anyway.
Only Time will tell, but Aaron Rodgers clearly has several good years in his tires and there’s an outside chance he could play well into his early 40’s.

Oh, I agree. I'm not saying I expect Rodgers' production to fall off any time soon. Like I said I would he fine with the Packers committing to Rodgers for the remaining years on his contract and maybe even longer. I'd be a bit reluctant to extend him right now but if another season similar, not necessarily equal, follows in 2021 I'd be open to it.

I was speaking more to the "he earned it" crowds attitudes to older elite athletes in general.
 

captainWIMM

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Then not sure what we are debating about? Is it just that they didn't push the cap hit of his roster bonus out for cap purposes that you are disappointed? So besides new money, what kind of guarantee are you hoping for that says to Aaron "You're our guy for at least 3 more years"?

As I've mentioned repeatedly the Packers should have converted Rodgers' base salary (which I'm aware they're still capable of doing) and roster bonus into a signing bonus to create cap space for this season.

I haven't mentioned being disappointed about anything else.

IF all he cared about was the team and winning, then he should take a pay cut and give the team the money to spend on better pieces.

Oh come on, Poker. You're fine with the Packers not guaranteeing any of Rodgers' money moving forward and he should take a pay cut on top of it???

I don’t see a QB being a year in the Packers system as being a negative like you and some others do.

Just to be clear, I don't consider Love being in the Packers' system for a year not as a negative at all. I just don't agree with several posters around here that other teams, which passed on drafting him in last year's draft, would now line up to trade for him while giving up a first rounder in return.

Unless you can explain in detail why he’s less valuable than any other college athlete being drafted I don’t get that argument.

Love isn't less valuable as quarterbacks coming out of college but the difference being that NFL teams already decided he wasn't worth of being selected in the top 25 last year.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Oh come on, Poker. You're fine with the Packers not guaranteeing any of Rodgers' money moving forward and he should take a pay cut on top of it???

You really don't get it do you? The Packers already paid out over $100 M to him on a contract that has 3 years left on it and now you think they need to guarantee more? Much of that is money already in his bank, unearned. So tell me how that isn't a guarantee?

No, I don't suppose he will take a pay cut, I merely mention it to posters like yourself that seem to only see Rodgers as the victim in all this.
 

captainWIMM

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You really don't get it do you? The Packers already paid out over $100 M to him on a contract that has 3 years left on it and now you think they need to guarantee more? Much of that is money already in his bank, unearned. So tell me how that isn't a guarantee?

Once again, I'm not advocating for the Packers to add any new money to Rodgers' current deal. I would be in favor of guaranteeing his 2022 base salary (converting it to a signing bonus as well to push the cap hit into the 2023 when the cap is expected to skyrocket) though.
 

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Rodgers wants to play like 7 more seasons...the only way this trade is even feasible is if darren waller is included instead of carr. At that point I hate to even say this but I'd have to at least think about it.

If Love is indeed the real deal...you'd have a pretty ridiculous offense with davante adams aaron jones henry ruggs darren waller bob tonyan mvs allen Lazard aj dillon and whatever draft picks

Still it's not happening, unless Rodgers forces it and I don't think we're at that point yet
We are now lol
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Well this thread is aging or not aging well...depending on what side of the Rodgers camp you are still on. :D
 

Snoops

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Rodgers wants to play like 7 more seasons...the only way this trade is even feasible is if darren waller is included instead of carr. At that point I hate to even say this but I'd have to at least think about it.

If Love is indeed the real deal...you'd have a pretty ridiculous offense with davante adams aaron jones henry ruggs darren waller bob tonyan mvs allen Lazard aj dillon and whatever draft picks

Still it's not happening, unless Rodgers forces it and I don't think we're at that point yet
We are at that point...
 

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