1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

how does this roster compare to other recent years?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Aug 15, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,510
    Ratings:
    +394
    The "greatest show on turf" did.
     
  2. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,510
    Ratings:
    +394

    That's kind of the point I was trying to make. Shields was a "UDFA rookie" that played a huge role in beating the Bears in the NFC championship game. We have some rookies and UDFA rookies along with 2nd and 3rd year players that are going to surprise a lot of people this year IMO.

    I'm not a NFL GM but IMO this is TT's best roster he has put together and I said it before camp and I only feel better about predicting that. This is something that needs to be revisited down road.
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977
    In general they dont, as his post on page two showed the top 12 scoring offenses only won one SB


    1. 2013 Broncos - 606 points (lost in SB)
    2. 2007 Patriots - 589 points (lost in SB)
    3. 2011 Packers - 560 points (lost in playoffs)
    4. 2012 Patriots - 557 points (lost in playoffs)
    5. 1998 Vikings - 556 points (lost in playoffs)
    6. 2011 Saints - 547 points (lost in playoffs)
    7. 1983 Redskins - 541 points (lost in SB)
    8. 2000 Rams - 540 points (lost in playoffs)
    9. 1999 Rams - 526 points (won SB)
    10. 2004 Colts - 522 points (lost in playoffs)
    11. 2010 Pats - 518 points (lost in playoffs)
    12. 1984 Dolphins - 513 points (lost in SB)
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,514
    Ratings:
    +2,437
    These could turn out to be a negative surprise as well.
     
  5. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    380
    Ratings:
    +318
    Okay, so I wanted to always do this. I wanted to do it for all super bowl winners but pro football reference has the NFL and AFL rankings split for the first 4 SB's and I was sick of clicking. So have never bought into the myth that defense wins championships. I always believed this to be BS. So below is a list of all SB winners going back to 1970 which is the last 44. Because IVO used points scored as a barometer of a great offense above, I used pts scored and pts allowed. They are listed as offense/Defense. If a team was in the top 10 I considered them great, 11-20 okay below 20 bad. Of course one could pick apart all kinds of stats to determine what is and is not great but this is a fairly good barometer so without further ado...


    Number of times a bad offense has won the Super bowl - 0/44

    Number of times a bad defense has won the Super bowl - 2/44

    Number of times a great offense has won the SB - 37/44

    Number of times a great defense has won the SB - 37/44

    Number of times a great offense AND defense has won the SB - 31/44

    Number of times a great offense has won a SB without a great defense 4/44

    Number of times a great defense has won a SB without a great offense 6/44

    Number of times the number 1 offense and defense has won the SB - only twice, the 96 Packers and 72 Dolphins.

    Number of times a great offense AND defense has won the SB - 28/44

    Number of times that a team's offense was better than their defense and won the SB - 21/44

    Number of times that team's defense was better than their offense and won the SB - 18/44


    So looking at these numbers, they have confirmed what I have always known which the whole "defense wins championships" is the biggest myth in football. A bad offense has never won the SB yet 2 bad defenses have. What all this tells me if that you truly want to win the SB your best bet is to have a great offense and defense. They go hand in hand in all reality. A great defense make an offense better, a great offense make a defense better.


    Hopefully you can all join me in finally stopping to perpetuate the greatest NFL fallacy ever concocted.



    2013 - Seahawks 9/1

    2012 - Ravens 10/13 - perfect example of a team getting hot at the right time

    2011 - Giants 9/25

    2010 - Packers 10/2

    2009 - Saints 1/20

    2008 - Steelers 20/1

    2007 - Giants 14/17

    2006 - Colts 2/23

    2005 - Steelers 9/4

    2004 - Pats 4/2

    2003 - Pats 12/1

    2002 - Bucs 18/1

    2001 - Pats 6/6

    2000 - Ravens 14/1

    1999 - Rams 1/4

    1998 - Broncos 2/9

    1997 - Broncos 1/7

    1996 - Packers 1/1

    1995 - Cowboys 3/3

    1994 - 9ers 1/6

    1993 - Cowboys 2/2

    1992 - Cowboys 2/5

    1991 - Redskins 1/2

    1990 - Giants 15/1

    1989 - 49ers 1/3

    1988 - 49ers 7/8

    1987 - Redskins 4/6

    1986 - Giants 8/2

    1985 - Bears 2/1

    1984 - 49ers 2/1

    1983 - Raiders 3/13

    1982 - Redskins 12/1

    1981 - 49ers 7/2

    1980 - Raiders 7/10

    1979 - Steelers 1/7

    1978 - Steelers 5/1

    1977 - Cowboys 2/8

    1976 - Raiders 4/12

    1975 - Steelers 5/2

    1974 - Steelers - 6/2

    1973 - Dolphins 5/1

    1972 - Dolphins 1/1

    1971 - Cowboys 1/7

    1970 - Colts 6/7
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,936
    Ratings:
    +3,031
    What issues do you see Daniels having?
    I don’t know what you are watching. Do you have some specific examples or are you really saying it happens “almost every snap”? I watched him on the first two series against the Rams and there were only two plays I’d give him a negative grade and on one of them he went after a LB – there was no one to ‘throw him back’. And you understand if an OL gives ground pass blocking there’s nothing wrong with that as long as he controls the defender, right? (If you recorded the game check out Sitton on the TD pass to Cobb for an example.) Larry McCarren sat down with Tretter in the pregame show and looked at two plays from the Titan’s game. On each running play Tretter drove the DL more than 5 yards and finished by knocking him to the turf. Against the Rams good DL he performed very well in the no huddle – that was a great test for a young center and I thought he passed it with flying colors. Before the first preseason game I was concerned about Tretter - and he still hasn’t taken a snap in a regular season game - but his play has been very encouraging IMO – and more importantly in the coaching staff’s opinion: After the Titans game, McCarthy said “He's off to a great start. I think he played well against Tennessee. He needs to stack some successes. This will be a good chance against a good defense. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/271266081.html In his review of the Rams game, Dunne wrote, “Center JC Tretter built off last week with another solid game.” http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/271539181.html
    Again, I really don’t know what you’re watching. A rookie safety is prone to making mistakes but I haven’t seen him “getting beat up pretty badly”.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. E. Wolf

    E. Wolf Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    277
    Ratings:
    +88
    Thanks Ogsponse. You put hard numbers that touched upon what I was saying. A great offense by itself does not doom one to failure. It is that combined with a sh1tty defense, or just bad luck. It is, after all, really hard to know the Super Bowl.
    I do find it hard to believe that were 2nd in defense in 2010. Part of that has to be smoke and mirrors and opponents. That was a great opportunistic defense but I find it hard to believe we were 2nd overall. That offense always had potential to be explosive but seemed to stall a lot early in the season for a variety of reasons.
     
  8. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    380
    Ratings:
    +318
    Don't forget I went strictly with pts allowed to determine rankings, you have to remember this team was pretty good at turnovers where they ranked 6th, they only gave 240 pts that year.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,936
    Ratings:
    +3,031
  10. E. Wolf

    E. Wolf Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    277
    Ratings:
    +88
  11. E. Wolf

    E. Wolf Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    277
    Ratings:
    +88
    That is what I remember most, that defense was really great at taking the ball away. It was just as exciting when the D took the field as the offense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,936
    Ratings:
    +3,031
    Actually both the 2009 and 2011 Packers defenses were better at taking the ball away. In '09 they had 30 INTs and 40 total TOs, in '10 24 INTs and 32 total TOs, and in '11 they recorded 31 INTs and 38 total TOs.
     
  13. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,510
    Ratings:
    +394
    The defense scored too. I still miss Nick Collins.
     
  14. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,514
    Ratings:
    +2,437
    While Collins had the pick-6 in the Super Bowl he didn't return an interception for a TD in the 2009 and 2010 regular season.
     
  15. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,510
    Ratings:
    +394
    Well he still put them in much better position to score. Bottom line is we don't have Nick Collins or Charles Woodson back there which went a long way in making that defense work. I still think this defense can be effective and I am very anxious to see how Capers scheme's it when the games count. I haven't been this excited about our defense since 2011 which was a big let down.
     
  16. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,510
    Ratings:
    +394
    Also, TT drafted the guy you wanted Clinton-Dix who was the best safety in the draft. Early on he looks like he might be better in the box playing closer to the LOS. You had visions of him playing single high.
     
  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,514
    Ratings:
    +2,437
    I still expect Clinton-Dix to turn into this guy but free safety is a tough position to learn in the NFL. It took a lot of great FS until their fourth year to make a huge impact.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +4,082
    I wonder how long it will take casual fans to write him off by mid season for not being nick collins this season
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +4,082
    I believe CHFF or FOs tackled this a few years ago.
     
    • Old Old x 1
  20. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +4,082
    1 of 12 ... those are terrible odds.
     
    • Old Old x 1
  21. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +4,082
    I 100% agree. No need for that. Ill take ball control and efficient possessions over 45 points a game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Old Old x 1
  22. Oski

    Oski Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Ratings:
    +24
    Generally to score an historically high number of points your defense is giving up a decent amount of points as well. Since more possessions means more points and if you aren't giving up points that means games are blowouts and you likely aren't putting your pedal to the metal. But I'd hardly argue that there is an inherent problem with your offense being too good. The patriots lost in the SB in the last seconds and Denver just got to the superbowl. I think we'd take those odds.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  23. Oski

    Oski Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Ratings:
    +24
    As would I. It's also more playoff and cold weather friendly.
     
  24. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +4,082
    its a lack of balance and having no idea what to do when you get punched in the mouth (denvers first possession set the tempo for them). 07 pats got thrown off their game and didnt know how to respond either.
     
    • Old Old x 1
  25. Oski

    Oski Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Ratings:
    +24
    I agree.
     
  26. E. Wolf

    E. Wolf Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    277
    Ratings:
    +88
    Those stats still disprove your assertion that "great offenses don't" win championships. If they have halfway decent defenses, they usually do. Not always of course. It is hard winning the Super Bow.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page