how does this roster compare to other recent years?

[Oski]

Raji definitely looks good so far. Those fat guys have problems sustaining it though.

 

[brandon2348]

Don't get me wrong, I'd like nothing better than this defense outperforming the 2010 D. But that's a very tall order. I hope this is true, but I really don’t know what you are basing this on.

Not putting anyone on the current D with Woodson and Collins’ was a very important point. The current secondary may be deeper but there’s not a playmaker to compare with Woodson and Collins is head and shoulders above the current safeties. IMO Zombo doesn’t make this team but he, and midseason acquisition Walden combined for 7 sacks and 2 FF during the 2010 regular season and 2 sacks in postseason. That’s not great but that’s ‘not noth’n’ either. The Packers are deep at OLB but how many can they play at one time? And how do you like the starters and depth at ILB? We've been hearing and reading about the difference in schemes this season - certainly the DL will be less bulky - but I'm sure we haven't seen all they have in mind or how effective it will be when the real bullets fly. I’m sure we’ll revisit this during and after the season and again, I hope this D surpasses the 2010 version.

I don't think Capers has shown even close to his "entire hand" but maybe a "pair of deuces" so it's a wait and see. Already I have seen Peppers, Matthews, Neal all on the field at the same time so far. I have also seen three safeties on the field at once. Clinton-Dix has an obvious nose for the football and I didn't expect him to be as good as I have seen in the box thus far. Pleasant surprise.

I am not sold 100 percent on our inside linebackers yet but they don't look like the 2013 one's so far. Barrington, Palmer, and Lattimore have all been making play's as well. We could be seeing some 2nd and 3rd year guys developing here.

All I am saying is I like what I have seen so far.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I am not sold 100 percent on our inside linebackers yet but they don't look like the 2013 one's so far. Barrington, Palmer, and Lattimore have all been making play's as well. We could be seeing some 2nd and 3rd year guys developing here.

The starters at ILB will be the same as in 2013 and it seems like Brad Jones will continue to be the lone inside linebacker in the dime.

Palmer is an OLB.

 

[brandon2348]

The starters at ILB will be the same as in 2013 and it seems like Brad Jones will continue to be the lone inside linebacker in the dime.

Palmer is an OLB.

I know who are starting ILB's are. There playing well and Jones surprisingly looks good. So does Hawk. At this point of the season I don't know what more we could ask for. The Rams have a "power run game" and it went nowhere. They averaged like 2.5 yards a carry. It's obviously pre-season but you have to feel better after watching the film. Hopefully this play continues against the run.

 

[Vrill]

Still disagree with you, the offense will be great but no way this defense is as good as the ones we had in 2009 and 2010.

It doesnt need to be. If this defense can be middle of the pack (ie around that 12-15 ranked range, and this is realistic) then hardly nobody can beat us with our offense. This maybe the most talented offense that we have had since the mid 90s.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Hey wolf did you say Brent?
lol

 

[Oski]

It doesnt need to be. If this defense can be middle of the pack (ie around that 12-15 ranked range, and this is realistic) then hardly nobody can beat us with our offense. This maybe the most talented offense that we have had since the mid 90s.

I'd be ecstatic about 12-15. Remember the d wasn't all that great until the playoffs last time the packers won the sb

 

[TJV]

I'd be ecstatic about 12-15. Remember the d wasn't all that great until the playoffs last time the packers won the sb

Wrong. The numbers I quoted were for the 2010 regular season: Second in points allowed at 15 points/game was "all that great".

 

[Oski]

Well glad you were so polite about it

 

[brandon2348]

I'd be ecstatic about 12-15. Remember the d wasn't all that great until the playoffs last time the packers won the sb

 

[brandon2348]

Well the Packer offense last year averaged about 30 points a game with Aaron Rodgers as starter. This was early in the year and Eddy Lacy was still learning the playbook with no Bryan Bulaga. I could see this offense easily averaging closer to 35 points a game this year. So if the defense gives up somewhere in the low 20's we will win a lot of games.

I know everyone wants to win 41-0 nothing every week but in this day and age and the salary cap and etc. etc. I just don't think that's consistently possible. Were going to give up points. Furthermore the defense couldn't get off the field in the playoff game against Arizona in 2010.

I really believe TT and Capers have built a defense that can get off the field a few times a game and slow down the run better. I also believe with the addition of Peppers the defense will be better at getting some "timely sacks" and "hurries". If that's all we get from Peppers I am going to be ecstatic. Add a few more turnovers and we are going to be lethal this year.

 

[longtimefan]

Looking at the 2010 team, this current team doesn't compare. I do think we have upgraded opposite Clay Matthews with Julius Peppers (we were using a combination of Jones, Zombo, and Poppinga), but Raji was playing well, Williams was paying better, Wells had C locked down, Grant was a 1200 yard rusher in his previous 2 seasons (and it's unfair to compare that team without it's injured players to a healthy team this year),

Finley was better than anything we have right now at TE, Lee, Crabtree, and Quarless added better depth than what we have now at TE (Crabtree always made a play or two),



.

After October 10th, Finley didnt play in 2010 anymore

 

[7thFloorRA]

I hope Hubbard sneaks on this roster. I just like him...he has a lankier bigger body type but seems like a gamer and he has the bama pedigree.

 

[brandon2348]

There are lots of worries about this team IMO. I think we will be in the race to make the playoffs, and we probably will, but if we didn't I wouldn't be shocked. Tramon Williams isn't what he was, we need Daniels to step up in a big way (and yes, he has taken a step but he still has some issues), ILB is below average at best, TE is below average at best, C is very questionable (Tretter recovers well, but if you watch him he gets thrown back almost every snap on first contact, although I do like the rest of the OL), Kuhn is getting old at FB, CB is excellent, but S is still questionable (HHCD has been getting beat up pretty badly IMO, although I think the long-term future looks bright), and I think we're seriously lacking depth in certain areas. We may even want to designate Barclay IR to return if we think he can come back in time. I was surprised at how terrible Sherrod looked.

Looking at the 2010 team, this current team doesn't compare. I do think we have upgraded opposite Clay Matthews with Julius Peppers (we were using a combination of Jones, Zombo, and Poppinga), but Raji was playing well, Williams was paying better, Wells had C locked down, Grant was a 1200 yard rusher in his previous 2 seasons (and it's unfair to compare that team without it's injured players to a healthy team this year), Finley was better than anything we have right now at TE, Lee, Crabtree, and Quarless added better depth than what we have now at TE (Crabtree always made a play or two), Clifton, Tauscher, and Bulaga were our Top 3 OT's (enough said), Jenkins and Pickett were nice at DE with Wilson as good run-support depth, Collins and Burnett made a good S combo with Woodson playing CB/S with Williams and Shields (although lets not talk about the depth after that ), and our ILB's were much better with Barnett, Hawk, Bishop, and Chillar. Those 4 players played in very different ways and we were able to make very specific packages for very specific situations.

Overall, when I look at this team I see too many questionable starting positions and too much questionable depth. When I look at the 2010 team I see very few questionable starting positions and questionable depth at only a couple of spots (mainly RB and CB).

 

[packrule81]

There are lots of worries about this team IMO. I think we will be in the race to make the playoffs, and we probably will, but if we didn't I wouldn't be shocked. Tramon Williams isn't what he was, we need Daniels to step up in a big way (and yes, he has taken a step but he still has some issues), ILB is below average at best, TE is below average at best, C is very questionable (Tretter recovers well, but if you watch him he gets thrown back almost every snap on first contact, although I do like the rest of the OL), Kuhn is getting old at FB, CB is excellent, but S is still questionable (HHCD has been getting beat up pretty badly IMO, although I think the long-term future looks bright), and I think we're seriously lacking depth in certain areas. We may even want to designate Barclay IR to return if we think he can come back in time. I was surprised at how terrible Sherrod looked.

Looking at the 2010 team, this current team doesn't compare. I do think we have upgraded opposite Clay Matthews with Julius Peppers (we were using a combination of Jones, Zombo, and Poppinga), but Raji was playing well, Williams was paying better, Wells had C locked down, Grant was a 1200 yard rusher in his previous 2 seasons (and it's unfair to compare that team without it's injured players to a healthy team this year), Finley was better than anything we have right now at TE, Lee, Crabtree, and Quarless added better depth than what we have now at TE (Crabtree always made a play or two), Clifton, Tauscher, and Bulaga were our Top 3 OT's (enough said), Jenkins and Pickett were nice at DE with Wilson as good run-support depth, Collins and Burnett made a good S combo with Woodson playing CB/S with Williams and Shields (although lets not talk about the depth after that ), and our ILB's were much better with Barnett, Hawk, Bishop, and Chillar. Those 4 players played in very different ways and we were able to make very specific packages for very specific situations.

Overall, when I look at this team I see too many questionable starting positions and too much questionable depth. When I look at the 2010 team I see very few questionable starting positions and questionable depth at only a couple of spots (mainly RB and CB).

This teams worries are not great tho. I agree center is a position to keep an eye on but Tretter has got nothing but praise from coaches and Rodgers in the first couple preseason games. Though I thought ILB was going to be a weakness, I saw Jones, Hawk, Barrington and Lattimore all flying around making plays against the Rams and with good play from the DL shut down the Rams running game. TE isn't that important of a position to this offense but Quarless is finally catching the ball but he gets taken down to easy. If Bostick isn't seriously hurt i think he brings some big play potential.

This team has serious depth at RB, CB, Safety, and IMO both LB positions. Sherrod disappointed against the Rams so OL depth becomes questionable, which becomes worrisome because as long as Rodgers is healthy this team has a chance to win it all as they did in 2010.

 

[Oski]

There are lots of worries about this team IMO. I think we will be in the race to make the playoffs, and we probably will, but if we didn't I wouldn't be shocked. Tramon Williams isn't what he was, we need Daniels to step up in a big way (and yes, he has taken a step but he still has some issues), ILB is below average at best, TE is below average at best, C is very questionable (Tretter recovers well, but if you watch him he gets thrown back almost every snap on first contact, although I do like the rest of the OL), Kuhn is getting old at FB, CB is excellent, but S is still questionable (HHCD has been getting beat up pretty badly IMO, although I think the long-term future looks bright), and I think we're seriously lacking depth in certain areas. We may even want to designate Barclay IR to return if we think he can come back in time. I was surprised at how terrible Sherrod looked.

Looking at the 2010 team, this current team doesn't compare. I do think we have upgraded opposite Clay Matthews with Julius Peppers (we were using a combination of Jones, Zombo, and Poppinga), but Raji was playing well, Williams was paying better, Wells had C locked down, Grant was a 1200 yard rusher in his previous 2 seasons (and it's unfair to compare that team without it's injured players to a healthy team this year), Finley was better than anything we have right now at TE, Lee, Crabtree, and Quarless added better depth than what we have now at TE (Crabtree always made a play or two), Clifton, Tauscher, and Bulaga were our Top 3 OT's (enough said), Jenkins and Pickett were nice at DE with Wilson as good run-support depth, Collins and Burnett made a good S combo with Woodson playing CB/S with Williams and Shields (although lets not talk about the depth after that ), and our ILB's were much better with Barnett, Hawk, Bishop, and Chillar. Those 4 players played in very different ways and we were able to make very specific packages for very specific situations.

Overall, when I look at this team I see too many questionable starting positions and too much questionable depth. When I look at the 2010 team I see very few questionable starting positions and questionable depth at only a couple of spots (mainly RB and CB).

Schedule is too easy to not make the playoffs baring a Rodgers injury. Knock on wood

 

[brandon2348]

I understand that, but as I said in my post, it's unfair to compare a healthy team this year to an unhealthy team in 2010. If you want to go back after the season and then look at who got hurt this year compared to that year then that's one thing, but we can't do that quite yet.



They didn't. That was 2009.

Mostly the same guys other then Shields, Zombo, Burnett. Quite a few guys made a significant jump in 2010 from 2009 that were younger players. What makes you think are younger players won't do that this year?

 

[ivo610]

This offense is going to be the best Packer offense of all time and maybe the best in the history of the NFL.

1. I sincerely doubt that
2. Lets hope youre wrong, great offenses dont win the big one

 

[E. Wolf]

2. Lets hope youre wrong, great offenses dont win the big one

Actually they do, see example Greatest Show on Turf. They often do if they work in tandem with an adequate defense. You are right though that the offenisve juggernauts that do not have balance on defense usualyl do not fare well.
I thought the 1998 Vikings were such a team but it seems their defense is not bad as I recall.

 

[ivo610]

Actually they do, see example Greatest Show on Turf. They often do if they work in tandem with an adequate defense. You are right though that the offenisve juggernauts that do not have balance on defense usualyl do not fare well.
I thought the 1998 Vikings were such a team but it seems their defense is not bad as I recall.

Thats 1 in 12 bro. LOL im glad you like those odds.

1. 2013 Broncos - 606 points (lost in SB)
2. 2007 Patriots - 589 points (lost in SB)
3. 2011 Packers - 560 points (lost in playoffs)
4. 2012 Patriots - 557 points (lost in playoffs)
5. 1998 Vikings - 556 points (lost in playoffs)
6. 2011 Saints - 547 points (lost in playoffs)
7. 1983 Redskins - 541 points (lost in SB)
8. 2000 Rams - 540 points (lost in playoffs)
9. 1999 Rams - 526 points (won SB)
10. 2004 Colts - 522 points (lost in playoffs)
11. 2010 Pats - 518 points (lost in playoffs)
12. 1984 Dolphins - 513 points (lost in SB)

 

[E. Wolf]

Thats 1 in 12 bro. LOL im glad you like those odds.

1. 2013 Broncos - 606 points (lost in SB)
2. 2007 Patriots - 589 points (lost in SB)
3. 2011 Packers - 560 points (lost in playoffs)
4. 2012 Patriots - 557 points (lost in playoffs)
5. 1998 Vikings - 556 points (lost in playoffs)
6. 2011 Saints - 547 points (lost in playoffs)
7. 1983 Redskins - 541 points (lost in SB)
8. 2000 Rams - 540 points (lost in playoffs)
9. 1999 Rams - 526 points (won SB)
10. 2004 Colts - 522 points (lost in playoffs)
11. 2010 Pats - 518 points (lost in playoffs)
12. 1984 Dolphins - 513 points (lost in SB)

That list is somewhat imperfect. The 2007 Patriots had a good enough defense. The Vikings statistically had a better defense than I recall but may be misleading as I remember it being more suspect. Also, it is simply the top twelve scoring teams of all time, rather a comprehsenive survery of leading offenses overall. Indeed, the 96 Packers were first in offense and defense.
Surely your position is not simply leading the leauge in score means you won't win the Super Bowl. It is a prolific offense combined with a below average defense that is problematic.

Also, I clearly wrote:

You are right though that the offenisve juggernauts that do not have balance on defense usually do not fare well.

 

[Luca]

Well let's compare 2010 opening day roster with our current roster. We are better in some spots, and weaker in other spots. The offense should be good. The pass rush should be much better this year, not sure about run-D though.

QB (2): Aaron Rodgers and Matt Flynn
+ Rodgers and Flynn are still here. Rodgers is a lot better now than in 2010. So the QB situation is improved.

RB (2): Ryan Grant and Brandon Jackson (Starks on PUP)
++ Obviously much improved, both quality (Lacy) and depth.

FB (3): Korey Hall, John Kuhn, and Quinn Johnson
= Kuhn is still here.

WR (5): Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, and Brett Swain
-- That was quite a receiving core. Right now we "only" have two star receivers.

TE (4): Jermichael Finley, Donald Lee, Tom Crabtree, and Andrew Quarless
= I am not impressed with either tight end group. Finley was still very inconsistent.

OT (4): Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Bryan Bulaga, and Marshall Newhouse
= That was a good group of tackles, however injuries did hurt. We have younger, and hopefully healthier guys now.

OG (4): Josh Sitton, Daryn Colledge, T.J. Lang, and Nick McDonald
++ Both Sitton and Lang are top guards now. However depth is questionable.

C (2): Scott Wells and Jason Spitz
- Wells was a good center, Tretter is unproven.

Defense (24):
DL (6): B.J. Raji, Cullen Jenkins, Ryan Pickett, Mike Neal, Justin Harrell, and C.J. Wilson (Green)
- Raji and Pickett were good run stoppers. Pickett was much better than Boyd is now. Jenkins was an effective rusher. We have a better rusher in Daniels now. Neal was ineffective, D. Jones is better. Depth was and is questionable.

OLB (4): Clay Matthews, Brad Jones, Brady Poppinga, and Frank Zombo (Walden)
+++ Clay is still Clay. I would take Peppers, Neal and Perry any day over Jones, Poppinga and Zombo. Moreover right now we still have some more depth.

ILB (4): Nick Barnett, A.J. Hawk, Brandon Chillar, and Desmond Bishop (Francois)
-- That was a great group of inside linebackers with playmakers. Something we miss now.

CB (6): Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, Brandon Underwood, Jarrett Bush, and Pat Lee
= Woodson was a great playmaker. Hayward is good slot corner, but not at the Woodson level yet. Shields has improved since, Tramon has slightly declined. CB Depth is much better now. Overall equal.

S (4): Nick Collins, Morgan Burnett, Charlie Peprah, and Derrick Martin
- Collins was a great playmaker, depth was questionable. We have finally some safety depth, but we don't have a guy like Collins.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This year´s team does have some question marks, like every other team out there as well. While the starting offensive line looks good there´s reason to be concerned with any of the backups, maybe Thompson will pick up a veteran after teams have cut players. I´m not concerned about the TE position at all.

On defense, I still want to see them being able to stop the run in the regular season before I get too excited, although it seems like the new 1-gapping scheme is working and the ILBs have improved by just attacking their gap instead of read the play and react to it.

The safety play will be improved but both Hyde and Clinton-Dix have to improve in coverage to make it work.

 

[Oski]

I'd be careful about that type of argument. There is around a 50% playoff turnover rate, and it's hard to know what teams will take a step forwards and what teams will take a step backwards. All too often a schedule looks easy and ends up difficult.

That because most playoff teams are marginal playoff teams and one or two wins or losses make the difference between making and missing the playoffs. Sure every year teams go from worse to first, but hardly often enough to look at a 16 game schedule and say we can't have a reasonable idea of its difficulty.

 

[Oski]

Why don't you accurately and completely quote yourself, like including the part where you disagreed with my statement?

If you pay attention to the original post that I quoted, he said this is going to be the best packers offense of all time (which if you glance at the list would at minimum make it the 3rd best all time). He was talking record setting level offense thus why I listed the top 12 offenses, so if you had paid attention you would have obviously realized it's not "somewhat imperfect". It's accurate.

I get the general impression McCarthy is going to run it this year more then any year with Rodgers. I expect a very efficient offense, but I'd be surprised to see record breaking because the running game will limit the number of offensive possessions.