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Has Ted Thompson gone off course?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, May 12, 2010.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I know it's risky because your MULTI-TITLES say NFL COMMISH and SUPER MODERATOR, but here's the thing:
    You go to the Packers official website, and on the roster page you see each player, and it says "HOW ACQUIRED".

    Now, Charles Woodson was ACQUIRED via free agency.
    So was Ryan Pickett. And Brandon Chillar.

    Mark Tauscher and Chad Clifton were not acquired via free agency.

    If you can't admit that there's a big difference in those two legal methods of assembling a roster, then we have nothing more in this thread to discuss and there's no point in reading the original article linked in the OP.

     
  2. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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  3. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    I think this will solve all the debate on this thread :)

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD0sod8kues]YouTube - Has Ted Thompson improved the Packers?[/ame]
     
  4. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    No kidding. Their contracts expired. They got new ones. With us. Noone is arguing that.

    Did Ted bring them to the Packers via free agency or not?
    Yes, or no?
     
  5. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    omg stop with the semantics

    THEY WERE FREE AGENTS WHEN TED SIGNED THEM THIS YEAR..so to answer your question...YES...Ted brought them to the Packers THIS year as free agents, because they were free agents...

    And I know where you are going with this..

    I dont give a rats a@@ what the Packer web site says how they were acquired...But you want to use the PAckers web site to stick to your argument??

    Then you have to use this

    Packers.com » News » Transactions » 2010

    Wow even on the Packers web site they list the players in question AS FREE AGENT SIGNINGS

    Get the NFL to change their criteria on how THEY determine who a free agent is or isn't then I will be more than happy to agree with you....

    But until you get the NFL to change those rules, I will close my portion of this thread knowing they were free agents
     
  6. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    That is hilarious.
    Let us then, for the moment, pretend that Mark Tauscher and Chad Clifton were not, in fact, original Packer draft picks then.
     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Who is denying that the Pack drafted them?

    We all know your argument...

    The NFL labeled them as free agents, so they were..

    Just because they didnt come from another team doesnt take away their status as a f/a..Please tell us you do understand that

    Or are you seriously saying the NFL is wrong?
     
  8. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I guess you can add Colledge and Spitz to your "How Acquired" list under "Free Agents".
    Perhaps Ted Thompson actually does utilize free agency much more aggressively than everybody thinks. LOL
     
  9. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    so when the Packers site says they were free agents you say they are wrong..

    but when it says how acquired you are only go by what the Packers site says next to their name on the roster?

    then I know where your coming from, you only use a source if it supports your argument..But if it proves you wrong you wont acknowledge it
     
  10. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Cant believe this is a 3 page argument

    I should just delete OUR stupid *** posts
     
  11. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    You know what I am talking about here, but you want to argue just for the sake of arguing, which is fine, no worries mate.

    I am talking about ways of assembling a roster.
    As everyone in the NFL Community knows, Ted Thompson lives & dies by the NFL Draft moreso than any other GM.

    We saw many other GMs and scouts and pundits say as much back in April.

    Ted's pretty good in the draft. We have Rodgers, Jennings, Collins, Sitton, Matthews, Raji, Jones, Jordyzz, Mason Crosby, Colledge, Spitz, Lang, etc. all to thank here.

    Then Ted has made a nice trade to acquire Ryan Grant.

    He also utilized free agency to acquire Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett, and Brandon Chillar. He also added free agents like Frank Walker, who I thought was a decent addition, and who has stuck with the Ravens after we let him go.

    Some would say he's not aggressive enough in free agency, which is what the original article states and I believe what LeRoy Butler mentioned.

    Ted prefers to build through the draft, which is a pretty good idea (and sometimes that means re-signing the current players before or after their original contract expires, which sometimes technically means they were considered "free agents" for a limited duration of time.
    He just needs to fill a hole or two via U or R free agency, as Ron Wolf did. This is pointed out in the original article.

    I tend to concur with that sentiment. I think most knowledgable Packer fans agree with that. Many, however, just give TT the benefit of the doubt because he is the GM.

    The problem is I have seen many GMs and many corporate CEO's lead their company/team to mediocrity, or to failure, yet their followers just marched to the man's drumroll along the way, assuming he knows best because he is, afterall, the man in charge.
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    All that ^^^^ I agree with ya 100%

    Just dont be daft and say Cliff, Mark, Collins were not free agents

    that is my only beef
     
  13. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Of course. If the GM lets their contracts expire, then they become restricted or unrestricted free agents. That's how it works.
    I'm talking about the methods available, the tools if you will, to assemble and add talent to a roster, from another team.
    Such as the Vikings adding/stealing away: Ryan Longwell, Steve Hutchinson, Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, Darren Sharper, Madieu Williams, Jared Allen (trade), Brett Favre, Bernard Berrian, Visanthe Shiancoe, or the Saints with Drew Brees, Darren Sharper, Jonathon Vilma, etc.

    We all know, and were reminded of it last month during the draft, that our guy is the guy who relies on the draft more than any other GM year-in, year-out. He freely admits as such. And it's critical to draft well, obviously. But it's even more critical when you put 97% of your eggs in the "draft basket".

    The misnomer we have, however, is that Ted Thompson is the king of the draft.
    I have pointed out we have a lot of good players thanks to hiim drafting them.

    But his draft track record is certainly not "elite".

    In fact, not sure if anyone here reads the USA Today or not (if you travel and stay in hotels, you probably do). But here is a nice piece on this:

    Ranking the decision makers: Who is best at the NFL draft? - USATODAY.com

    This is unbiased as it's not from a Green Bay or Milwaukee journalist.
    Have a read through it everyone. Nice piece, free too.
     
  14. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    And Clifton, Tauscher and Collins could have signed anywhere but he came back and signed with us.
     
  15. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I stopped reading when I saw #1. Unless they are mixing him up with his dad the writer clearly doesnt know what he is talking about.
     
  16. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Right, which is the case in the majority of cases with starting players.
    Stealing someone else's starters, to fix your own weaknesses, is sometimes a double-coup, as we have seen with the Grape Apes getting Sharper and Longwell from us, Jared Allen from Kansas City, Antoine Winfield and Pat Williams from Buffalo, Steve Hutchinson from Seattle, and Bernard Berrian from Chicago. All those players have made the Viqueens a better football team
    But they also hurt the teams who lost those players.
     
  17. supersoul

    supersoul Cheesehead

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    So..

    So Thompson doesn't get credit for not letting other teams do that with players like Clifton, Tauscher, Kampman, Pickett, Collins, Jennings, etc?
     
  18. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Sure he does. That's why he's ranked #12 on that list from USA Today.
    If you're grading on a curve, that's about a B/B- I reckon, and his playoff record is about on par with that, so seems fair to me.

    BTW, of those players you mentioned above, he drafted 2 of them, and he did let Kampman get away for nothing when many people, fans, writers locally and nationally said they should trade him last year and get a pick or player for him. So if you think he did well with Kampman and the 3-4 switch, well I think that was one of his strikeouts. But maybe Kampman wasn't worth anything back a year ago? I thought he had value. To a 4-3 team.
     
  19. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    No the only time a free agent counts is when it comes from another team
     
  20. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Depends if you're talking about retaining a player from one's own team versus adding a player previously on a different team.

    Obviously everyone can see there IS, in fact, a significant difference.
    Very alarming that this simple issue seems to be so confusing for some.

    Next week I will be breaking down the difference between an UFA and an UDFA. Stay tuned.

    Now, carry on.
     
  21. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Okay, this is getting annoying.

    TT is doing a great job. Anyone who doesn't think so, well, you can join the firetedthompson.com site. It's been running for quite a while now... Unsucessfully...

    TT is going to stay in the job. That's a fact, a given.

    Now, there's only one goal the Packers have. And that is to win the SB. Until he does, he's not an elite GM, and he's not gonna get any relief from fans.

    But, to stay in the job, he needs to build a contending team. As long as this team is capable of contending for the title, he stays.

    Of course, if he never wins, it's a problem. But that's another issue.

    So far, TT has built a roster and coaching staff (that's debatable) capable of winning it all.
     
  22. armand34

    armand34 Cheesehead

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    i would rather have adam "pacman" jones then jarret bush, although they did release matt giodarno who reminds me of the yankees centerfielder, fast but never gets a hit when it matters
     
  23. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    Bush is not kept on the roster for his cornerbacking skills. I don't know why he's still around but I'd rather have Bush than Jones. At least Bush doesn't have run-ins with the law. If Pacman can wear out his welcome with Jerry Jones I sure don't want him polluting the lockerroom at 1265! :skull:
     
  24. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I'm honestly not sure how you can say TT has done a great job, other than the homer-angle.

    I have seen a Sporting News breakdown of the past 3 drafts, and posted this USA Today one which ranks all the GMs who have conducted 3-5 drafts for their team, and they rank TT #12 overall. Now that's unbiased, and that's up to this point.

    #12 is not "great". It's better than average, or good. Not great.

    Again, TT's team in over a half-decade has one single playoff game win. One. That's not great. That's average.
    In 5 full seasons, there are 60 playoff births, and 32 teams. We have a win. The Jets and Rex Ryan picked up 2 last season, with a brand new QB and brand new coach.

    The Vikings came within a whisker of a Super Bowl birth with a brand new QB, and anchored by a bunch of guys who they never drafted, from Pro Bowler's Jared Allen to Steve Hutchinson to Antoine Winfield to PHat Williams.

    So honestly, are you under the belief that, as you stated, TT has done a great job?
    That's great to you? To me, it's pretty good.
    What is a Super Bowl birth? A Super Bowl win? Two Super Bowl wins (all over 5 years?) I would reserve "great" or "fantastic" for something along those lines.

    And yes, I lived thru the horrible 70's and 80's for the Packers. That's Lions/Clippers type horrible. But I loved Lofton & Jefferson!
     
  25. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    To the BOD, yes.

    That's all that matters. You can discuss all you want.

    Like I said, the BOD's goal is to have a contending team. He has accomplished that, despite only winning 1 playoff game.

    To the fans, and to the Board in a longer period of time, is to win the SB.

    So discussing semantics of what's great and what's very good or above average doesn't matter.
     

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