1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Goodbye to Charles Woodson?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by El Guapo, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,526
    Ratings:
    +1,442
    There is a JS Online article essentially saying goodbye to Woodson, that based on his injuries, declining play, and projected 2013 salary that he won't be brought back to GB next season. Here is a link to the article: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/176505181.html

    I hadn't thought much about Woodson's future and don't remember seeing other threads regarding this. The JS author mentioned a $9 million salary for Woodson next season. My quick search online shows that he's actually owed $10 million over the next two years of his contract. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/charles-woodson/

    My thought is that Woodson is a lot like Double D. He is a great leader on the field and in the locker room, and if the last two years of his contract can be restructured then I don't see a reason not to bring him back. The only reason that I would see is if all of our young players in the secondary play so well that there is no room for Charles on the roster.

    Thoughts on whether Woodson will be back in 2013?
     
  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,051
    Ratings:
    +4,048
    He has declined sharply but still has use for another season. But at his current salary he won't be on the team. $1 million bonus per game he plays doesn't help. The author knows his stuff, so it should be taken seriously.
     
  3. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,519
    Ratings:
    +868
    Great article. Nearly brought tears to my eyes. We have been blessed to cheer on two truly great defensive players in the past two decades. First, Reggie White and now Charles Woodson. I agree that this might be Charles' last year. I hope not, but must face the reality of it occurring.

    All good things come to an end, unfortunately.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,670
    Ratings:
    +2,970
    See if he can make it back this year and see how he plays...I am sure they will want to re-do his contract...Also depends on how the younger guys take over for him...

    I think he will be back for one more year
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,827
    Ratings:
    +2,935
    Regarding Woodson's salary, I posted this a couple of weeks ago:
    http://www.packerforum.com/threads/looking-towards-the-future.39989/#post-469323

    Maybe the author isn't counting the per-game roster bonus but that's no more guaranteed than his salary or the $2.5M roster bonus early in the 2013 season. Maybe rotoworld has it wrong? Whether it's $9M or $10M, the author correctly notes it's not only Woodson's age, injury "proneness", and diminishing production but also the money and cap room needed to extend Rodgers, Matthews and Raji. Isn't Driver making somewhere around $2.5M this season? Maybe Woodson would play for $3.5-$4 in 2013?

    As the author also writes it's incredible when a UFA outperforms a rich contract but that's exactly what Woodson has done. And he's also helped the team develop young DBs too: Couldn't have wished for more from him. But as PFanCan mentioned all good things must come to an end. And unfortunately that goes for the careers of Driver and Woodson.
     
  6. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,889
    Ratings:
    +832
    If he would wear some real shoulder pads and not the kicker pads he might survive another season. He does too much dirty work over the middle to be that unprotected.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Ratings:
    +1,453
    What all counts towards the salary cap? I was under the impression that the main salary the player is earning is what counts.....thought bonus money wasn't under the cap. IDK.....either way that seems like to much cash for an aging veteran who has had multiple injuries in the past 3 seasons and is down on production.
     
  8. Rodgers in the House

    Rodgers in the House Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    367
    Ratings:
    +109
    If I had to chose I'd take Woodson over the dance champion any day.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,956
    Ratings:
    +2,256
    In-season bonuses, such as roster bonuses and per game bonuses, count against the cap, and they count in the year in which they are earned.

    On the other hand, signing bonuses are prorated over the term of the contract for salary cap purposes. If a player is cut, the full remaining balance of the prorated signing bonus counts against the cap in the year the guy is cut.

    Simple example:

    A guy is signed for 5 years, $50 million, which includes a $15 million signing bonus and $7 mil per year base salary. The $15 million in signing bonus is prorated over the 5 years for cap purposes, or $3 million per year.

    In the first year of the contract, the guys is paid $22 million in cash ($15 mil signing bonus + $7 mil salary), but the cap hit in the first year is $10 mil ($3 mil prorated signing bonus + $7 mil salary). If the guy plays out the full 5 years, the cap hit will be $10 mil per year in each successive year.

    If the guy is a bust and he's cut after the first year of the contract, the team gets a $12 mil cap hit in year 2 (the remaining 4 years of the prorated signing bonus) even though the guy is no longer on the roster. They call this "dead cap" space. It would cost you more in cap space to cut him than to keep him in year 2 of this contract.

    This is one reason why guys who sign deals with big signing bonuses but end up stinking up the ball yard are kept around for a few years...teams would rather hope for a turnaround than take the dead cap hit.

    In Woodson's case, it looks like the cap hit is around $10 mil per year for 2013 and 2014...I don't see evidence of a big signing bonus being worked off cap-wise.

    Any cash money that passes from the team to a player counts against the cap sooner or later, with the possible exception of injury settlements...I don't know how they handle those, but they're almost always modest sums.
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
  10. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Ratings:
    +1,453
    ^ Thanks man!!! That was a great write up.
     
  11. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,526
    Ratings:
    +1,442
    Driver signed a 2-year $2.5 million contract, of which $500k was a signing bonus. So he is essentially playing for the veteran minimum of about $1 million per season plus the signing bonus. I think that Woodson would need to get down into this realm if he wanted to play again next season.
     
  12. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Ratings:
    +1,453
    ^ do you think he would actually take that ?? Kinda seems like a chump change offer.
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,956
    Ratings:
    +2,256
    A couple of corrections, now that I think about it: Under the old CBA, salaries paid to guys on IR didn't count against the cap. I believe that is still in place. Also, it used to be only the top 51 salaries count against the cap...so the bottom of the active roster and usually PS guys did not count. Not sure if they changed that, but I've not heard anything to the contrary.
     
  14. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Ratings:
    +1,453
    Good to know info. That is one aspect I never really got into was the pay. I hear what people are getting paid and that's about all I paid attention to. Good to know the inner workings.

    Do you know if they receive their yearly salary all at once or is broken up into chunks or do they get a weekly paycheck like the average joe does?
     
  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,956
    Ratings:
    +2,256
    Clearly the issue would need to be approached delicately.

    It depends on what their plans are for him at the time they broach the subject. If they plan to have him play at least nickel back (70% of snaps), $2.5 mil would be chump change. If they plan to just have him around to play dime and for insurance for a one year swan song (like Driver), not really.

    I think they'll try to be fair, but in line with plans, with some nod to his place in franchise history.

    But in the final analysis, he'll be 37 next Oct. and will not have much free agent value. And to be realistic, I doubt either party fully expected these last 2 years would be paid in full when the deal was signed.
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,670
    Ratings:
    +2,970
    I have heard that once games start they get checks..That means no pay till 1st REAL game

    When they tore down county stadium in Milwaukee they found a Jose Canseco check stub in old lockers

    Pretty sure they have to pay taxes on every state they play in...So when you hear 20 million,...Yes it is a ton, but they do have to pay taxes, then state taxes...I think that is a big reason why some guys live in Texas or Florida, no state tax?

    Taxes alone would be at least 5.6 mill just for federal
     
  17. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,931
    Ratings:
    +993
    Please name another DB on our roster better than Woodson...even at 36. Tell me another guy who can tackle, take away the ball, blitz, play evey secondary position, force fumbles, play in the box, and under stands routes like he does please. I get tiered of all this he's not this, he's not that talk. He's not a liability that's all that matters at this point.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,956
    Ratings:
    +2,256
    Yeah, base salary is paid out in season. They divide the base by 16, and it's earned game by game. In the Steven Jackson case, to take a handy example, his base for this season is $7 mil with no apparent bonuses or guarantees. Since he's been on the roster for 8 games, STL has paid or will pay him $3.5 mil. If there are no guarantees and they cut him tomorrow, they'd owe him nothing more. If they traded him before game 9, the new team would pay out the remaining $3.5 mil providing he stayed on their roster for the remaining 8 games.

    Whether they cut the checks weekly, biweekly or monthly, I couldn't say and I don't think anybody but the team and the players would have any reason to care.

    Bonuses are different. A roster bonus is earned if the guy is on the roster at the start of the league year, usually sometime in March. A signing bonus is earned as soon as the ink is dry on the contract. A per game bonus is earned game by game. Again, when they actually cut the checks for bonuses, in a lump sum or spread out, I couldn't say.
     
  19. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,956
    Ratings:
    +2,256
    Yup. For example, a Packer will play one game in Illinois every season...1/16 of his base salary will be subject to Illinois state income tax. But they're not double taxed...the money for that game will not be subject to Wisconsin state income tax.

    I'm not sure about the signing or roster bonus...it would seem that would be taxed in the state of residence.

    There have probably been a player or two who weighed equivalent offers with equivalent perceived intangible benefits from a NY team vs. a Texas or Florida team and chose the latter based on state income tax. The highest marginal state income tax in NY is about 9% (for pay over $500,000) while it is zero in those other two states. Since you play half your regular season games in the home stadium, half the base salary is subject to the franchise home state income tax. So, that's close to a 4.5% difference in take home pay for NY vs. Texas or Florida based on the franchise's home state's income tax alone.
     
  20. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,956
    Ratings:
    +2,256
    Whether the checks are cut weekly or bi-weekly or monthly, I could not say...but yes, there is a payroll cycle with the dates circled on personal calendars just like average Joes. It would probably shock the average fan how many players live paycheck to paycheck despite the sums involved...if Andre Rison's accounts are to be believed.
     
  21. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,526
    Ratings:
    +1,442
    Chill out rodell. This thread is in response to a published article.

    Your statement seems to imply that Woodson is still playing at his DPOY level - playing all over the field and being an offensive coordinator's nightmare. He's not, but he doesn't suck either. The reality is that this comes down to performance first and foremost, then age, durability, Woodson's salary, and the salary cap. If he plays up to a level that deserves $9 or $10 million next season then I bet everyone here would be in favor of it. If not, there are undeniable reasons to question his value.

    Let us not forget that with the exception of Driver, TT has been willing to cut the cord with cherished veterans when their age/skill/injuries/cap have merited a different direction. You could start the list with Marco Rivera and Mike Wahle, add in a few others here and there, and certainly cap it with Favre.
     
  22. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    594
    Ratings:
    +499
    I'd take Tramon Williams over Woodson for sure based on pure talent. Williams can actually shut down WR's - see Brandon Marshall - whereas Woodson can't anymore. And then, based on Woodson's declining play and the improved play by younger and cheaper players, I'd rather have our trio of Shields, Hayward, and House over Woodson. Now, with that being said, I think Woodson could be a good safety based on his smarts. So, I think Woodson is better than what we have at those spots.
     
  23. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    Woodson is still great. Not as great, but he's still great.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. burt packerack

    burt packerack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    250
    Ratings:
    +99
    i knew his career was coming to an end when he was moved back to safety. That's where all the old CBs go. It'll be very strange not to have him in green and gold. We wouldn't have a super bowl or half of the playoff appearances if it wasn't for him. Hope he lands in the HOF.
     
  25. burt packerack

    burt packerack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    250
    Ratings:
    +99
    Even though Woodson wasn't drafted by the pack you can tell he loves being a packer.
     

Share This Page