Fixing the run Defense

[TJV]

Daniels to LDE - to the strong side of a right-handed offense? I don't think that makes sense. In fact, if Daniels doesn't play significantly better IMO he should go back to his role last season as an interior pass rusher. I loved Daniels' tough talk and attempting to take a leadership role, but he really stunk it up vs. the Seahawks.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Daniels to LDE - to the strong side of a right-handed offense? I don't think that makes sense. In fact, if Daniels doesn't play significantly better IMO he should go back to his role last season as an interior pass rusher. I loved Daniels' tough talk and attempting to take a leadership role, but he really stunk it up vs. the Seahawks.

I would like to see Pennel in at NT. While I agree Daniels is best suited to play inside in obvious pass situation the Packers don't have a lot of options to replace him in the base.

 

[rodell330]

yea Daniels is better suited against the as a pass rusher but he didn't do to good doing that or stopping the run. I agree with maybe letting him see a few snaps on the inside... Ppl always talk about how strong he is so why not? Can use his quickness that's for sure.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

yea Daniels is better suited against the as a pass rusher but he didn't do to good doing that or stopping the run. I agree with maybe letting him see a few snaps on the inside... Ppl always talk about how strong he is so why not? Can use his quickness that's for sure.

Not sure you're saying that you want to give him some snaps at NT in the base, if you do I disagree with the suggestion.

I want him as one of the interior guys to rush the passer when the Packers line up in the nickel or dime defense.

 

[wingrider47]

We definitely need to make some changes. (I almost wrote defiantly but that works too!) I'm not ready to give up on back peddle... Cough.. I mean Hawk. He showed last year, how maturity and seasoning make up for lack of raw talent. I agree with Lattimore over Brad especially on running downs. haha just needs time. We can win with him playing mediocre get him in for live experience. I think he needs live action to gain seasoning. He's gonna be a starter by next year

Well Hawk is probably the only ILB in the NFL that has played for this long and not been injured and why? Because he is soft and plays soft. He avoids the hole is in the wrong place more then not, these offensive linemen easily redirect him by just getting in his way a little and he will run around them to avoid the contact. The Hawks offensive line moved this defense around like it was easy, we need more tough guys that play fast and hit hard and this group isn't doing that.

 

[OldSchool101]

Why anyone would suggest to use Brad Jones primarily on passing downs is beyond me! He can't cover come on man! I do think that Jolly should be back, and if Pickett isn't 400lbs give him a look to. The problem can be solved as it's still early to get this turned around. Lattimore needs more snaps, Burnett needs less snaps, hawk needs less snaps, Perry needs to be a rush end on passing downs, Hyde needs to be at Fs on passing downs, Richardson needs more snaps and mike Daniels needs to be moved to left DE while Mike Neal starts at RE.

I agree with most of that.im brainstorming on the past successes.on D we were successfull blitzing Woodson and Butler, theory being Our secondary should be good enough to run 1 safety occasionally. On O we used to dominate on power screens. Especially our 1996 team. If you give Lacy the ball in the flat with 2 yards of room and a blocker or 2 he will rip for 8+ yards easy. Key is it can't be like that slow developing screen last week with Zero blockers. Favre ate people alive on short 5-6 yard slants releasing within 2 seconds it also draws flags past 5. Challenge the middle field

 

[rodell330]

I agree with most of that.im brainstorming on the past successes.on D we were successfull blitzing Woodson and Butler, theory being Our secondary should be good enough to run 1 safety occasionally. On O we used to dominate on power screens. Especially our 1996 team. If you give Lacy the ball in the flat with 2 yards of room and a blocker or 2 he will rip for 8+ yards easy. Key is it can't be like that slow developing screen last week with Zero blockers. Favre ate people alive on short 5-6 yard slants releasing within 2 seconds it also draws flags past 5. Challenge the middle field

Yea I've notice the 5 yd slant has turned into a 10 yd slant. I don't know if that's part of the actual route tree or if it's a called adjustment made by Rodgers but we need to go back to the staples of the west coast offense, quick slants, screens etc..I think we ran two screens Thursday? Starks is very good at those screens so we can't be running 2 weak screens a game smh. MM needs to give up play calling and find a true OC. A part of me wants the Dolphins to suck so Philbin is fired and bought back to Green Bay.

 

[TJV]

Taking the Richardson idea from PackerUpdate, how about this front seven when they go to the 4-3:

Left to right on DL: Neal, Datone, Daniels, Perry.
Left to right LBs: Clay, Richardson, Peppers

No "fat guys" on the DL so little to no 2 gapping. It looks like the LBs would suffer in coverage but IMO Hawk and Jones do too. Richardson should be better covering a TE or RB out of the backfield than Lattimore. It would get their best athletes on the field IMO. Against the Jets I would go with a lot of one-on-ones in the DB – depending on the offensive formation, another DB could be brought up to the LOS for run support.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Taking the Richardson idea from PackerUpdate, how about this front seven when they go to the 4-3:

Left to right on DL: Neal, Datone, Daniels, Perry.
Left to right LBs: Clay, Richardson, Peppers

No "fat guys" on the DL so little to no 2 gapping. It looks like the LBs would suffer in coverage but IMO Hawk and Jones do too. Richardson should be better covering a TE or RB out of the backfield than Lattimore. It would get their best athletes on the field IMO. Against the Jets I would go with a lot of one-on-ones in the DB – depending on the offensive formation, another DB could be brought up to the LOS for run support.

I think I would feel better about moving Peppers to the line and play Neal at LB.

 

[rodell330]

I think I would feel better about moving Peppers to the line and play Neal at LB.

Hmmm? I'm ok with that as long as I don't have to see Neal covering people. I don't think Peppers is going to do as good as a olb but I could be wrong. What if they moved Sean Richardson to the inside on passing downs? But he'd line up like A third safety close to the box because He's big physical and should be able to cover a tightend . I bet we would get off the field more on third downs . Call it the jet package...you put you're best cover guys in the game.

De Julius Peppers
De Nick Perry
Dt Mike Daniels
Olb Matthews
Ilb lattimore
SSb Sean Richardson (lines up over Tightend)
FS Hyde
SS HaHa
Slot Heyward
Cb shields
Cb Williams

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hmmm? I'm ok with that as long as I don't have to see Neal covering people. I don't think Peppers is going to do as good as a olb but I could be wrong. What if they moved Sean Richardson to the inside on passing downs? But he'd line up like A third safety close to the box because He's big physical and should be able to cover a tightend . I bet we would get off the field more on third downs . Call it the jet package...you put you're best cover guys in the game.

De Julius Peppers
De Nick Perry
Dt Mike Daniels
Olb Matthews
Ilb lattimore
SSb Sean Richardson (lines up over Tightend)
FS Hyde
SS HaHa
Slot Heyward
Cb shields
Cb Williams

Well, that would be either a nickel or a dime formation (depending on the way you would use Richardson), TJV was talking about a 4-3 though. I would rather have Daniels and Datone inside with Peppers and Matthews outside in a nickel or dime.

 

[rodell330]

Well, that would be either a nickel or a dime formation (depending on the way you would use Richardson), TJV was talking about a 4-3 though. I would rather have Daniels and Datone inside with Peppers and Matthews outside in a nickel or dime.

Id rather have Perry in instead of Jones . Perry looks to be the better pass rusher of the two. He's a lot faster to.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Neal has shown he can't survive playing dline so any suggestion of him playing DE should only be considered as a sub, not a starter. Daniels was terrific last year against the pass and, in limited snaps, against the run. In his first full-time game against the Seahawks he was terrible against the run. Expecting an undrafted rookie in Pennel to play an entire season without wearing down (let's not even discuss how good he'll be) is extremely optomistic. As for going 4-3, iit worked very well in the first half against the Seahawks but I'm not sure how effective it would remain once a few games worth of tape are put out there.

To be realistic, fixing the run defense is going to depend on the offense putting the other team's run game out of commission by running up the score. Our front seven is weak from a personnel standpoint. TT needs to finally draft some impact ILBs and either draft an impact NT or have Pennel become that player next year. Datone Jones might make the jump this year (that's the hope anyway) but that would mean we have two decent players on the dline in Daniels and Jones but a severe weakness in the middle; and the middle is what hurts the most since we don't have the IILBs to compensate. This defense has two ILBs that HAVE to be protected from the oline and we have NTs that can't ooccupy the oline...that's a terrible combination.

 

[christofolo]

Neal has shown he can't survive playing dline so any suggestion of him playing DE should only be considered as a sub, not a starter. Daniels was terrific last year against the pass and, in limited snaps, against the run. In his first full-time game against the Seahawks he was terrible against the run. Expecting an undrafted rookie in Pennel to play an entire season without wearing down (let's not even discuss how good he'll be) is extremely optomistic. As for going 4-3, iit worked very well in the first half against the Seahawks but I'm not sure how effective it would remain once a few games worth of tape are put out there.

To be realistic, fixing the run defense is going to depend on the offense putting the other team's run game out of commission by running up the score. Our front seven is weak from a personnel standpoint. TT needs to finally draft some impact ILBs and either draft an impact NT or have Pennel become that player next year. Datone Jones might make the jump this year (that's the hope anyway) but that would mean we have two decent players on the dline in Daniels and Jones but a severe weakness in the middle; and the middle is what hurts the most since we don't have the IILBs to compensate. This defense has two ILBs that HAVE to be protected from the oline and we have NTs that can't ooccupy the oline...that's a terrible combination.

Completely agree with Sunshine about the front seven being weak. Probably the poorest D-line in the league. Had to get a chuckle the other night during pregame when Rodney Harrison mentioned that the strength of the defense was the front seven. Man, what scouting report was he looking at? Lets hope they can find a suitable combination that can keep this team in the game. With the game on the line how many of us can trust this defense to win the battle?

 

[Packerlover]

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Packerlover]

The Packers defensive scheme better improve or every OC in the league will know how to beat them

 

[TJV]

On second thought Neal would be better at OLB - he's even lighter than he was last season. BTW, the 4-3 definitely did not work well in the first half against Seattle. But then, nothing did.

 

[brandon2348]

There going to figure it out. They have plenty of options and talented guys to shuffle and move where they can be effective. There are a lot of young guys on this defense. I'm just glad Brad Jones is out so someone else can come in and take his job.

Way to early to hit "panic button" on the defense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Expecting an undrafted rookie in Pennel to play an entire season without wearing down (let's not even discuss how good he'll be) is extremely optomistic.

Completely agree with most of the stuff in your post. In addition I'm well aware of the fact that counting on Pennel to be to be able to step in and improve the run defense is very optimistic, but at least I want to get a look at him and see what he can do. It can't be worse than how Guion played vs. the Seahawks.

 

[OldSchool101]

Id rather have Perry in instead of Jones . Perry looks to be the better pass rusher of the two. He's a lot faster to.

I swear the more I think about run heavy teams. The four man front

Completely agree with most of the stuff in your post. In addition I'm well aware of the fact that counting on Pennel to be to be able to step in and improve the run defense is very optimistic, but at least I want to get a look at him and see what he can do. It can't be worse than how Guion played vs. the Seahawks.

Listen, I think we are all in agreement it was a disappointing D game to say the least. I think it's human nature to go out on a witch hunt with the blame game. My assertion is that Letroy is coming off a hamstring, a serious one. Combine that 3 factors1. with improper conditioning due to injury2.playing a top 3 rushing team3.week 1 away on the road. I think it's safe to assume he'll be better. He has multiple years of evidence of that that I would put in his defense of this 1 game. I could add a 4th too.. His support(the player next to him) played poorly. Before we start talking replacements let's give our guys benefit of the doubt that you can have bad day. I'll be more concerned by the close of Detroit week 3. That's the game that is gonna have prime impact on our standing come playoffs as our division record may decide our fate. Now I'm in agreement with getting a look at Pennel and reducing Letroys load. I think that's more prudent than yanking him

 

[rodell330]

There going to figure it out. They have plenty of options and talented guys to shuffle and move where they can be effective. There are a lot of young guys on this defense. I'm just glad Brad Jones is out so someone else can come in and take his job.

Way to early to hit "panic button" on the defense.

It's crazy how I've heard this phrase for 3 yrs in a row now haha. So when should we hit the " panic button" on the defense then?? Week 6? Week 10? The draft? Haha

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Listen, I think we are all in agreement it was a disappointing D game to say the least. I think it's human nature to go out on a witch hunt with the blame game. My assertion is that Letroy is coming off a hamstring, a serious one. Combine that 3 factors1. with improper conditioning due to injury2.playing a top 3 rushing team3.week 1 away on the road. I think it's safe to assume he'll be better. He has multiple years of evidence of that that I would put in his defense of this 1 game. I could add a 4th too.. His support(the player next to him) played poorly. Before we start talking replacements let's give our guys benefit of the doubt that you can have bad day. I'll be more concerned by the close of Detroit week 3. That's the game that is gonna have prime impact on our standing come playoffs as our division record may decide our fate. Now I'm in agreement with getting a look at Pennel and reducing Letroys load. I think that's more prudent than yanking him

Guion has never been a good run defender or played at NT during his career. I agree it´s probably too early to tell how succesful he can be for the Packers but I wouldn´t be surprised if Pennel would be the better option.

 

[OldSchool101]

Guion has never been a good run defender or played at NT during his career. I agree it´s probably too early to tell how succesful he can be for the Packers but I wouldn´t be surprised if Pennel would be the better option.

I'm in 100% agreement that we need a Long term solution. I think subbing Pennel in and getting some looks at what +he's got in live action is warranted. I also like Mikes size better for a 2 gap stuffer.you need a load in there combined with brute strength. Mike just jeeds some seasoning and Letroy ain't getting any younger. Neither is Raji. There was a NT in the draft that we interviewed the corky one that said he was "****" when inquired about his weight. Lol. We missed that opportunity

 

[raj34]

It's crazy how I've heard this phrase for 3 yrs in a row now haha. So when should we hit the " panic button" on the defense then?? Week 6? Week 10? The draft? Haha

Agreed. It's slightly disingenuous to equate concern for the defense today with 'hitting the panic button.' This isn't a week 1 problem. This is a three year problem.

 

[OldSchool101]

Agreed. It's slightly disingenuous to equate concern for the defense today with 'hitting the panic button.' This isn't a week 1 problem. This is a three year problem.

Exactly! It's funny there was a recent comment in here about when we should panick. Like week 6. Week 10. Week 16? began to respond to that with 3 YEARS AGO!! Spot on my friend