Fire Matt LaFleur

[Pokerbrat2000]

As a Packer fan, my hope is that the Packers front office and coaches put a team on the field in September that has a legit shot at the playoffs and potentially a Super Bowl. I think Gute and Matt have done that every season since they came to GB.

A season can be changed by a lot of unknown factors. Injuries, development, strength of schedule and luck. I won't break down this season or the previous ones, but all those factors have impacted the Packer team in both negative and positive ways.

I am a Packer fan that has really enjoyed the last 30 or so years of Packer Football. I am also fine with what Gute and MLF have been doing, but I think some tweaks and changes in the coaching structure would be a way to improve that aspect of the team. Bisaccia should be gone and MLF needs to hand off the play calling duties to a fully involved OC.

 

[tynimiller]

You just made his point. As long as they eke out a playoff spot, everything in Green Bay is fine.

While that lower bar for success is OK when the roster is mediocre, I would say the Packers have had the roster to win a championship and fallen short 4 - 6 times in the past 15 years. (2011, 2014, 2020, 2021, 2025 come up as years with squandered opportunities) The Packers have had a few holes but benefited from the good offensive lines and QB play that frequently pulls teams over the finish line.

A lot of franchises and fan bases are perfectly happy with making the playoffs. If that's the case in Green Bay as well, then we might as well swap the "Title Town" moto for "playoff town" Doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

Disagree - as I've stated elsewhere I suspect almost with enough certainty to guarantee Policy is going to make some demands for change to MLF. Staff wise I would almost bet Rich is on cutting board for sure as part of the off season plans. Everything is not fine in Green Bay - I know Gute and company are not satisfied ever.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Disagree - as I've stated elsewhere I suspect almost with enough certainty to guarantee Policy is going to make some demands for change to MLF. Staff wise I would almost bet Rich is on cutting board for sure as part of the off season plans. Everything is not fine in Green Bay - I know Gute and company are not satisfied ever.

Agree.

I really don't understand the "fire everyone" because ......we aren't undefeated. First, that says that the only acceptable outcome is to never lose. Second and probably more important, that assumes that the people you find to replace the "fired people" are instant winners.

I don't think that anyone, including myself wants things to "stay as is" in Green Bay. Meaning, improvements can be made with players, coaches, scouting, draft, etc. However, blowing things up by firing the GM and the coaching staff? That just seams like an overreaction by fans that want to stick a flag in the ground that says "Super Bowl or Bust".

How would fans feel if their GM and coaches leveraged EVERYTHING for one season, to go all in and win that Super Bowl? If that one season, Lombardi Trophy or not, were followed by 5+ years of cap hell and losing seasons? If you need to understand this, go read about the Browns.

 

[Magooch]

Maybe it is naive, but I've got my fingers crossed that Policy will take a bit of a different approach. While you can't really dispute that we have generally went "cheaper" in the past when it involves assistant/coordinator positions, I feel like we also don't really have much of any "track record" to judge Policy on in that regard.

Maybe he doesn't want to pay LaFleur "top of the market" wages, but then again...how many here would want that, either? I would suspect even his biggest fans here don't want to see him given a bumper contract at 4 years / 18 million or something like that...

But at least on very early indications it FEELS like Policy is willing to be a little more aggressive than his predecessor... Philosophically however I do question whether the team selects assistant coaches (often cheaply) out of financial necessity/prudence OR if they feel it is more in-line with their same "draft-and-develop" approach applied to players, if that makes sense...

In any case, the bottom line for me is that:
A.) If you think Matt LaFleur is an elite coach - one who can win you the Super Bowl - then you should be willing to pay him like an elite coach
B.) If you don't think Matt LaFleur is an elite coach - you don't think he can win you the big one - then you shouldn't be looking to extend with him at all

Of course I don't want to see us just write him a blank check but I don't really have any interest in any in-between scenario there either - there shouldn't be any case where we are trying to get a bargain price on an elite coach or extending a coach (at a "modest" or "reasonable" price) who we aren't convinced can take us all the way.

 

[OldSchool101]

OTC does an interesting "player valuation" metric that basically compares their "performance value" with their contract value. Of course you ideally want a player who is either getting paid roughly commensurate to the value they bring, or better yet providing more value than they're being compensated for. Gary unfortunately finds himself on the wrong side of that equation. Now to be fair they have assigned a season-long valuation of roughly 18m, which is still quite handsome.

Interesting. Off the cuff I said Gary is a slight under perform around $20mil value performance (these guys get paid)l that’s top 1/3 of the league area. . It’s almost exactly in line with their evaluated $18mil. So in their opinion he’s not performing to contract like I said. But he’s nowhere near bad level, which is what @Sanguine camper is suggesting. According to your own research? @Sanguine camper is suggesting we pull a player playing at $18mil level for a complete unknown. That’s the kind of assertion I’m arguing with. Never once said he’s over performing, but that’s what’s getting falsely spun. I don’t think we should bench Rashan I think that is a total overreaction.

If you want to pretend Gary is getting the job done, so be it but I'd rather see his snaps go to other guys.

I think it would be logical to give some of his snaps to Cox Jr. but pulling Rashan is not an intelligent move imo. Might even line up all 3 of LVN, Rashan and Cox Jr is my contention.

I've seen too many QB's scramble for a first down or step into the pocket, or throw a quick check down to know 'pressures' frequently don't lead to success.

We both have. Especially guys like Caleb. However it’s known fact that across the league QB’s have a lower performance % scrambling than standing tall in the pocket. Saying pressures don’t matter when we won our first Chicago game because of a pressure is an outlandish level assertion.

Times like this I'm glad to be living 5 miles or less from the GB TV broadcast towers. No streaming fees for OTA broadcasts.

It won’t be long. They’ll find a way to charge local broadcasts and they’ll roll the costs to consumers. I used to complain about nfl blackout on packages. That’s a drop in the bucket 10 years later to completely alienating average fan by means of exploitation.

 

[OldSchool101]

Seems recent information is all about the salary MLF will command. Kinda sounds about right. Wurst thing we could do is fire Matt and Hafley leaves with Parsons and Tucker likely in the mix by mid next season.

I’d expect a Detroit like regression for 1-2 seasons at minimum if they can’t get Matt locked down.

 

[adambr2]

Seems recent information is all about the salary MLF will command. Kinda sounds about right. Wurst thing we could do is fire Matt and Hafley leaves with Parsons and Tucker likely in the mix by mid next season.

I’d expect a Detroit like regression for 1-2 seasons at minimum if they can’t get Matt locked down.

So from 9-7-1 to 9-8?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think it would be logical to give some of his snaps to Cox Jr. but pulling Rashan is not an intelligent move imo. Might even line up all 3 of LVN, Rashan and Cox Jr is my contention.

1 Million % agree. I am probably hoping for too much, but I think Gary will have a great game on Saturday. Nothing against Cox or LVN, buy Gary is still the better player of the 3. He is already paid, so sitting him doesn't save you anything. That said, we will see a steady does of Gary, Enagabare and LVN from now until the end of this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe it is naive, but I've got my fingers crossed that Policy will take a bit of a different approach. While you can't really dispute that we have generally went "cheaper" in the past when it involves assistant/coordinator positions, I feel like we also don't really have much of any "track record" to judge Policy on in that regard.

Maybe he doesn't want to pay LaFleur "top of the market" wages, but then again...how many here would want that, either? I would suspect even his biggest fans here don't want to see him given a bumper contract at 4 years / 18 million or something like that...

But at least on very early indications it FEELS like Policy is willing to be a little more aggressive than his predecessor... Philosophically however I do question whether the team selects assistant coaches (often cheaply) out of financial necessity/prudence OR if they feel it is more in-line with their same "draft-and-develop" approach applied to players, if that makes sense...

In any case, the bottom line for me is that:
A.) If you think Matt LaFleur is an elite coach - one who can win you the Super Bowl - then you should be willing to pay him like an elite coach
B.) If you don't think Matt LaFleur is an elite coach - you don't think he can win you the big one - then you shouldn't be looking to extend with him at all

Of course I don't want to see us just write him a blank check but I don't really have any interest in any in-between scenario there either - there shouldn't be any case where we are trying to get a bargain price on an elite coach or extending a coach (at a "modest" or "reasonable" price) who we aren't convinced can take us all the way.

Isn't if "funny" that teams will throw Millions at starters and backup players, but HC's are probably making less then a lot of backups in the league. Who is more valuable to an NFL team, a really good HC or a starting Guard?

 

[Half Empty]

Isn't if "funny" that teams will throw Millions at starters and backup players, but HC's are probably making less then a lot of backups in the league. Whose more valuable to an NFL team, a really good HC or a starting Guard?

Well, don't leave me hanging - which is it?

 

[Firethorn1001]

I am probably hoping for too much, but I think Gary will have a great game on Saturday.

Morgan Freeman Narration : "He indeed hoped for too much"

I'm usually pretty non-pessimistic on the boards, but I can't even find a glimmer of hope for that to happen.

 

[AGreen2AJones]

Baltimore Ravens fire head coach John Harbaugh

Change is inevitable, and the Ravens will have a new head coach after firing John Harbaugh.

ravenswire.usatoday.com

Harbaugh fired and he's basically did what MM and MLF did combined. Again, if MLF doesn't make a playoff run why should he remain coach?

 

[Zad Fnark]

Baltimore Ravens fire head coach John Harbaugh

Change is inevitable, and the Ravens will have a new head coach after firing John Harbaugh.

ravenswire.usatoday.com

Harbaugh fired and he's basically did what MM and MLF did combined. Again, if MLF doesn't make a playoff run why should he remain coach?

That's nuts. One off year and he's gone?

I figured he pretty much brought success to that organization.

 

[Magooch]

Baltimore Ravens fire head coach John Harbaugh

Change is inevitable, and the Ravens will have a new head coach after firing John Harbaugh.

ravenswire.usatoday.com

Harbaugh fired and he's basically did what MM and MLF did combined. Again, if MLF doesn't make a playoff run why should he remain coach?

It won’t happen, but brings an interesting consideration for the “who could we get who’s as good or better than LaFleur?” discussion

 

[milani]

As a Packer fan, my hope is that the Packers front office and coaches put a team on the field in September that has a legit shot at the playoffs and potentially a Super Bowl. I think Gute and Matt have done that every season since they came to GB.

A season can be changed by a lot of unknown factors. Injuries, development, strength of schedule and luck. I won't break down this season or the previous ones, but all those factors have impacted the Packer team in both negative and positive ways.

I am a Packer fan that has really enjoyed the last 30 or so years of Packer Football. I am also fine with what Gute and MLF have been doing, but I think some tweaks and changes in the coaching structure would be a way to improve that aspect of the team. Bisaccia should be gone and MLF needs to hand off the play calling duties to a fully involved OC.

I believe he gave us a team with the potential to go to the SB last September. But just a little too young in 2025. But, if healthy, they could be there in a year or two.

 

[pacmaniac]

I believe he gave us a team with the potential to go to the SB last September. But just a little too young in 2025. But, if healthy, they could be there in a year or two.

Sadly, after the 2023 season, most felt like we were 2 years away from being a true SB contender. Now 2 years later, it still feels like we're 2 years away.

 

[shockerx]

Sadly, after the 2023 season, most felt like we were 2 years away from being a true SB contender. Now 2 years later, it still feels like we're 2 years away.

I think you put the leaders of Kraft and Parsons on both sides of the ball...SB was ours as much as anybody. Hugh loss. Wonder about next year...will they look like themselves.

 

[McKnowledge]

I think you put the leaders of Kraft and Parsons on both sides of the ball...SB was ours as much as anybody. Hugh loss. Wonder about next year...will they look like themselves.

They both won't be 100% next season.

There shouldn't be any expectations of them performing anywhere to their elite output pre-injury.

 

[shockerx]

They both won't be 100% next season.

There shouldn't be any expectations of them performing anywhere to their elite output pre-injury.

I hope so ...I just think about 87 and 69....ACL hard to say both parsons and Kraft game is largely due to their speed and power.

 

[McKnowledge]

I hope so ...I just think about 87 and 69....ACL hard to say both parsons and Kraft game is largely due to their speed and power.

With the Kraft injury there’s hope due to his age and position. He could be used in the red zone, but those big plays and run after catch he excelled at I wouldn’t expect.

Parsons is the same age as Kraft, but the mechanics of his position are dependent on speed to power, that will take time.

Either way, with less than ideal draft capital Green Bay has to solidify the depth at those positions and find some hidden gems this offseason.

 

[milani]

I hope so ...I just think about 87 and 69....ACL hard to say both parsons and Kraft game is largely due to their speed and power.

For most players it depends when the injury occurred in the previous season. And, of course, how well the rehab goes. Adrian Peterson tore both his ACL and MCL in Xmas Eve 2011. He came back in MVP form in 2012. But he always was a physical phenom.

 

[rmontro]

That's nuts. One off year and he's gone?
I figured he pretty much brought success to that organization.

I don't follow the Ravens, so I have no idea if this is true or not. But I've heard squawking from Ravens fans that Harbaugh didn't want to run Derrick Henry, for some reason (except of course, when he played us, and he ran him down our throats). If he was reluctant to use a weapon like that, I could understand him being fired.

 

[OldSchool101]

So from 9-7-1 to 9-8?

Could be! If we’re going to Fire Matt and miss the playoffs we should get what we deserved. We might as well do it right and leave the fans empty and confused as to what to do with no verifiable resolution in sight.
7-7-3

 

[BrokenArrow]

Sadly, after the 2023 season, most felt like we were 2 years away from being a true SB contender. Now 2 years later, it still feels like we're 2 years away.

No, just 2 healthy players away. And we all know who those 2 players are. One on each side of the ball.

 

[milani]

I don't follow the Ravens, so I have no idea if this is true or not. But I've heard squawking from Ravens fans that Harbaugh didn't want to run Derrick Henry, for some reason (except of course, when he played us, and he ran him down our throats). If he was reluctant to use a weapon like that, I could understand him being fired.

Their decision after so many years. The fans appeared to be the instigators. Of course you run Henry with the backup QB. He did well against the Steelers. But Pittsburgh got burned by Henry the year before. So they beefed up their front in the offseason and played a lot of 5 down linemen. The Packers could not do that. If you fire the coach because a kicker misses one then a lot of coaches would be fired.