Fire Matt LaFleur

[adambr2]

I know this is going to be a controversial statement to some, but — if MLF had the same playoff system as his predecessors (6 playoff teams instead of 7), he would currently be in line to miss the playoffs for the 4th straight season.

It’s going to be very interesting if this team goes one and done again as a 7 seed to see if he’s going into 2026 as a lame duck.

Gute had a brutal 2025. Prior to that I would have said he seemed to be reasonably above average but those swings and misses on Hobbs and Banks were major blows — as was letting Stokes walk for cheap.

I don’t see how he looks like an extension candidate, currently.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Anybody that doesn't recognize that MLF is one of the best coaches in the NFL is just being willfully ignorant at this point. MLF's job should absolutely be secure while Gute needs to be looked at very closely by Ed Policy.

 

[adambr2]

Anybody that doesn't recognize that MLF is one of the best coaches in the NFL is just being willfully ignorant at this point. MLF's job should absolutely be secure while Gute needs to be looked at very closely by Ed Policy.

Nah. Different people are allowed to have different opinions than yourself. Other people are allowed to hold the Rich Bisaccia hires and Joe Barry hires against him. Other people are allowed to consider playoff success when evaluating a HC, not just an Aaron Rodgers inflated regular season record.

“Best coaches in the NFL” is subjective. You declaring it to be true does not make it so.

 

[tynimiller]

Nah. Different people are allowed to have different opinions than yourself. Other people are allowed to hold the Rich Bisaccia hires and Joe Barry hires against him. Other people are allowed to consider playoff success when evaluating a HC, not just an Aaron Rodgers inflated regular season record.

“Best coaches in the NFL” is subjective. You declaring it to be true does not make it so.

By almost every metric most use to measure coaches MLF is one of the best. Now if your one of the best is only a 3 deep group or 5 sure arguments there to be made he is out of it but otherwise almost EVERY knowledgeable person in football knows MLF is one of the best.

Now you did bring up one of the BIGGEST critiques that has immense merit and that is his loyalty to his staff to a fault. It is TREMENDOUSLY powerful to know your boss or those over you believe in you, MLF absolutely conveys that to his staff - BUT he has went too far with this affecting accountability within the staff. Rich needed one of his two titles stripped in the offseason - to send a message to him but the rest of the staff that medocrity isn't going to cut it. Rich continually puts forth STs that struggle to be above the bottom 1/3 in the league in many stats which would be argued as most crucial to judging them - he is also by title the assistant head coach. I think if the players respect him like it seems they do, remove him as ST Coordinator and keep on staff in a diminished role as direct assistant to MLF as Assistant Head Coach AT MOST what Rich should do for us.

MLF is one of the best in the league though absolutely.

 

[Magooch]

I just really don't know. I think both Gute and LaFleur have a lot of things they've done (do) really well. I think they also have a lot of deficiencies, too.

I'm sure I've said it a dozen times already, but Policy's made it clear he doesn't want either on a lame-duck contract. While they both are contracted till 2027, he's going to want to either move on or extend them ahead of that. I don't think either have really shown enough to get fired outright, but are we comfortable tying ourselves to one or both for the duration of another contract?

Gutekunst has been GM since 2018. LaFleur has been head coach since 2019. On the whole, our regular-season record has been exceptional, but at the same time...in that span we have 3 playoff wins and 5 playoff losses.

The general sense I have had for much of the season is more or less something like... "if not now, when?"
Week after week it feels like myself and others are bringing up the same issues...and they're issues that aren't just new to this season. It's the same stuff that's been happening for years now. If these things aren't getting fixed after 6, 7 years with LaFleur and 7, 8 years with Gutekunst...why should I believe things would be different if we hand them a new contract? So it's just tough. Change for the sake of change is not a good approach and you don't perfect to be the enemy of good, but I don't know...I think I said it a month or two ago - it feels like we are in leadership-purgatory. Our structure/organization/approach/roster/etc is solid enough that we won't be terrible. It's not gonna get Gute or LaFleur fired, and we're always gonna be a dangerous team to face. But I question whether or not it's ever going to be enough to get us "over the hump," either.

In general I think Matt is a great head coach, but at the same time I get the sense that some of his blind spots/shortcomings/etc are probably going to be too much to overcome for him to be the guy he needs to be to win it all.

 

[tynimiller]

Anybody that doesn't recognize that MLF is one of the best coaches in the NFL is just being willfully ignorant at this point. MLF's job should absolutely be secure while Gute needs to be looked at very closely by Ed Policy.

Gute arguably had his first misses in actual true expensive Free Agency after really batting a thousand for years in it...seemed whenver he put money down on a FA that dude was guaranteed to play above average starter in the NFL level worst case. Hobbs and Banks were as of now, albeit for sure too early to know what becomes, misses. Banks is clawing his way back to being an adaquate starter but still struggles more than his investment should yield for sure. BUT this same offseason Gute added a weapon many did not think would be there in Golden, convinced Watson/Agent to do the awesome one year extension to buy time for one of our biggest weapons, got Tom to sign a very reasonable deal for one of the best RTs in the game...and to many STOLE Parsons from Dallas.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm sure I've said it a dozen times already, but Policy's made it clear he doesn't want either on a lame-duck contract.

I get that, and I fully assume most in his position would prefer to not be in that situation but sometimes that's what you do to get them motivated or just because there might be validity to do so.

Policy walks from both I personally think it is a gamble he better be DAMN sure of...because there are organizations that would KILL for the draft and free agency success Gute has done and contract wins he's done....there are teams that would trade for MLF to be their head coach in a big way....Policy I think would risk immediately expulsion from his position within a year or two depending on how it goes.

 

[adambr2]

By almost every metric most use to measure coaches MLF is one of the best. Now if your one of the best is only a 3 deep group or 5 sure arguments there to be made he is out of it but otherwise almost EVERY knowledgeable person in football knows MLF is one of the best.

Now you did bring up one of the BIGGEST critiques that has immense merit and that is his loyalty to his staff to a fault. It is TREMENDOUSLY powerful to know your boss or those over you believe in you, MLF absolutely conveys that to his staff - BUT he has went too far with this affecting accountability within the staff. Rich needed one of his two titles stripped in the offseason - to send a message to him but the rest of the staff that medocrity isn't going to cut it. Rich continually puts forth STs that struggle to be above the bottom 1/3 in the league in many stats which would be argued as most crucial to judging them - he is also by title the assistant head coach. I think if the players respect him like it seems they do, remove him as ST Coordinator and keep on staff in a diminished role as direct assistant to MLF as Assistant Head Coach AT MOST what Rich should do for us.

MLF is one of the best in the league though absolutely.

I think most reasonable people would rank Andy Reid, Nick Sirriani, Sean McVay, Sean Payton, and Kyle Shanahan clearly ahead of MLF.

So he’s not in the top 5. Then you have Campbell, McDermott, Tomlin, Harbaugh, Ben Johnson, Macdonald , Vrabel, and MLF in some order, and it’s completely subjective at that point as to what order.

 

[tynimiller]

I think most reasonable people would rank Andy Reid, Nick Sirriani, Sean McVay, Sean Payton, and Kyle Shanahan clearly ahead of MLF.

So he’s not in the top 5. Then you have Campbell, McDermott, Tomlin, Harbaugh, Ben Johnson, Vrabel, and MLF, and it’s completely subjective at that point.

There are a LOT of non-subjective metrics - winning being one of the most crucial ones where he is better than nearly all of those guys really though. Even MLF haters cannot escape the fact that if MLF became available tomorrow likely 15 teams are calling him before the ink dries on the newpaper story...

 

[Magooch]

I get that, and I fully assume most in his position would prefer to not be in that situation but sometimes that's what you do to get them motivated or just because there might be validity to do so.

Policy walks from both I personally think it is a gamble he better be DAMN sure of...because there are organizations that would KILL for the draft and free agency success Gute has done and contract wins he's done....there are teams that would trade for MLF to be their head coach in a big way....Policy I think would risk immediately expulsion from his position within a year or two depending on how it goes.

Completely speculative but if he (Policy) has a HC candidate in mind that he is interested in, I wonder if a possible LaFleur trade would ever enter the conversation? He doesn't have a super bowl winning pedigree like him but Payton commanded a first and a second round pick. Maybe he's looking at us having traded 2 firsts for Parsons and thinks we could recoup one of those and install the coach he wants

Of course zero evidence to this but fun to mindlessly speculate the hypotheticals lol

The tough thing too though is like...if you put LaFleur and/or Gute in that "lame duck" situation then you kinda risk losing them too, no? So say that does motivate them and they do really well. But then they're thinking "you weren't willing to trust and commit to me, I'm gonna try my luck somewhere else". So in that sense I feel like you have to give at least a short-term extension...which is basically just a drawn-out lame-duck contract practically speaking, lol

 

[adambr2]

There are a LOT of non-subjective metrics - winning being one of the most crucial ones where he is better than nearly all of those guys really though. Even MLF haters cannot escape the fact that if MLF became available tomorrow likely 15 teams are calling him before the ink dries on the newpaper story...

Ok — but what criteria of “winning”? Just regular season winning percentage?

Tomlin has won a Super Bowl and been to 2. Harbaugh has won one. Those things matter too.

I don’t know why people embellish on our guys like this … he’s obviously not really going to have 15 teams calling him. Does he have a job next year as HC? I would guess yes, probably in New York.

I’m not going to sit here and say MLF is trash. He has his strengths. He’s a smart offensive mind. He also has his weaknesses. Like others, I think his weaknesses may prevent us from taking the next step.

I think he struggles at times in big game situations where he has to think on his feet and make immediate decisions. I think he struggles to separate emotion from logic. That tends to get him outcoached in key games.

Great case in point was the inexplicable 4th quarter challenge yesterday.

 

[tynimiller]

Ok — but what criteria of “winning”? Just regular season winning percentage?

Tomlin has won a Super Bowl and been to 2. Harbaugh has won one. Those things matter too.

I don’t know why people embellish on our guys like this … he’s obviously not really going to have 15 teams calling him. Does he have a job next year as HC? I would guess yes, probably in New York.

I’m not going to sit here and say MLF is trash. He has his strengths. He’s a smart offensive mind. He also has his weaknesses. Like others, I think his weaknesses may prevent us from taking the next step.

I think he struggles at times in big game situations where he has to think on his feet and make immediate decisions. I think he struggles to separate emotion from logic. That tends to get him outcoached in key games.

Great case in point was the inexplicable 4th quarter challenge yesterday.

It's all three observations of winning - regular season, playoffs and overall.

 

[tynimiller]

Ok — but what criteria of “winning”? Just regular season winning percentage?

Tomlin has won a Super Bowl and been to 2. Harbaugh has won one. Those things matter too.

I don’t know why people embellish on our guys like this … he’s obviously not really going to have 15 teams calling him. Does he have a job next year as HC? I would guess yes, probably in New York.

I’m not going to sit here and say MLF is trash. He has his strengths. He’s a smart offensive mind. He also has his weaknesses. Like others, I think his weaknesses may prevent us from taking the next step.

I think he struggles at times in big game situations where he has to think on his feet and make immediate decisions. I think he struggles to separate emotion from logic. That tends to get him outcoached in key games.

Great case in point was the inexplicable 4th quarter challenge yesterday.

You don't think there are 15 teams that if their GM could avoid the PR, cost of a financial change and just all that and wake up with MLF over their current head coach they wouldn't?

 

[Sanguine camper]

Anybody that doesn't recognize that MLF is one of the best coaches in the NFL is just being willfully ignorant at this point. MLF's job should absolutely be secure while Gute needs to be looked at very closely by Ed Policy.

MLF has had 7 seasons to compete for a championship. His teams have been largely embarrassing in the playoffs.

Most successful coaches have won or at least gone to the Super Bowl by year 7. If the goal is to win a championship, then MLF isn't getting the job done. If the goal is to be a little bit better than average, then yeah, he's your man.

This topic comes up periodically. What is success in the NFL? I take my guidance from Vince Limbardi. He said the goal of every season Is to win a championship.

I think MLF is a really good offensive coordinator but a rather poor head coach.

 

[tynimiller]

MLF has had 7 seasons to compete for a championship. His teams have been largely embarrassing in the playoffs.

Most successful coaches have won or at least gone to the Super Bowl by year 7. If the goal is to win a championship, then MLF isn't getting the job done. If the goal is to be a little bit better than average, then yeah, he's your man.

This topic comes up periodically. What is success in the NFL? I take my guidance from Vince Limbardi. He said the goal of every season Is to win a championship.

I think MLF is a really good offensive coordinator but a rather poor head coach.

If anyone like me was curious how true this was here the most recent SB winning HCs first SB win and what year that was:

2025 - Sirianni - 4th year as HC (less than)
2021 - Sean McVay - it was his 5th year as HC (less than)
2020 - Arians - it was his 8th year as HC (more than)
2019 - Reid - it was his 21st year as HC (more than)
2017 - Pederson - it was his 2nd year as HC(less than)
2015 - Kubiak - it was his 9th year as HC(more than)
2013 - Carroll - it was his 8th year as HC, but massive span 1999 to 2010 he was USC HC(more than)
2012 - Harbaugh - it was his 5th year as HC(less than)
2010 - McCarthy - it was his 5th year as HC(less than)
2009 - Payton - it was his 4th year as HC(less than)
2008 - Tomlin - it was his 2nd year as HC(less than)
2007 - Coughlin - it was his 12th year as HC(more than)
2006 - Dungy - it was his 11th year as HC(more than)
2005 - Cowher - it was his 14th year as HC(more than)
2002 - Gruden - it was his 5th year as HC(less than)
2001 - Belichick - it was his 7th year as HC (BUT he had a five year gap in there of not being a HC)
2000 - Billick - it was his 2nd year as HC(less than)
1999 - Vermeil - it was his 10th year as HC (82' to 97' break as being a HC also)(more than)
1997 - Shanahan - it was his 5th year as HC(less than)
1996 - Homlgren - it was his 5th year as HC(less than)
1995 - Switzer - it was his 2nd year as HC

 

[Magooch]

I went thru this as well. It is worth noting that many of them were winning within 7 years *with their respective team*. For instance Reid took 21 years to win it but 7th year with KC

And Reid had also of course already been to a Super Bowl in that span, too, losing the SB in his 6th year as a coach.

I would have to then wonder… how many Super Bowl winning coaches had not even MADE a Super Bowl in their first 6-7 years? I would assume that knocks a few off

 

[Wayne G]

By almost every metric most use to measure coaches MLF is one of the best. Now if your one of the best is only a 3 deep group or 5 sure arguments there to be made he is out of it but otherwise almost EVERY knowledgeable person in football knows MLF is one of the best.

Now you did bring up one of the BIGGEST critiques that has immense merit and that is his loyalty to his staff to a fault. It is TREMENDOUSLY powerful to know your boss or those over you believe in you, MLF absolutely conveys that to his staff - BUT he has went too far with this affecting accountability within the staff. Rich needed one of his two titles stripped in the offseason - to send a message to him but the rest of the staff that medocrity isn't going to cut it. Rich continually puts forth STs that struggle to be above the bottom 1/3 in the league in many stats which would be argued as most crucial to judging them - he is also by title the assistant head coach. I think if the players respect him like it seems they do, remove him as ST Coordinator and keep on staff in a diminished role as direct assistant to MLF as Assistant Head Coach AT MOST what Rich should do for us.

MLF is one of the best in the league though absolutely.

The only metric that matters:

CHANPIONSHIPS!!!! Been there 7 years....

This team is clueless with half time adjustments.....rarely ready to play....

SOFT...SOFT...SOFT!!!!

Pack needs new leadership!

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Nah. Different people are allowed to have different opinions than yourself. Other people are allowed to hold the Rich Bisaccia hires and Joe Barry hires against him. Other people are allowed to consider playoff success when evaluating a HC, not just an Aaron Rodgers inflated regular season record.

“Best coaches in the NFL” is subjective. You declaring it to be true does not make it so.

Nope, but his win-loss record does

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Gute arguably had his first misses in actual true expensive Free Agency after really batting a thousand for years in it...seemed whenver he put money down on a FA that dude was guaranteed to play above average starter in the NFL level worst case. Hobbs and Banks were as of now, albeit for sure too early to know what becomes, misses. Banks is clawing his way back to being an adaquate starter but still struggles more than his investment should yield for sure. BUT this same offseason Gute added a weapon many did not think would be there in Golden, convinced Watson/Agent to do the awesome one year extension to buy time for one of our biggest weapons, got Tom to sign a very reasonable deal for one of the best RTs in the game...and to many STOLE Parsons from Dallas.

Sure, Gute is very good in free agency…not so much the draft though.

 

[Wayne G]

My fear is we get 5 more years of going nowhere fast with a new Lafluer contract!

And can we stop with "we have a good defense" they get shredded half a game!

On to 2026! Hopefully a new regime!

Lafluer has had 7 years to bring a championship to GB. He cant do it.

Time has come....or, will come in 4 weeks
Maybe 3.

 

[pacmaniac]

I know this is going to be a controversial statement to some, but — if MLF had the same playoff system as his predecessors (6 playoff teams instead of 7), he would currently be in line to miss the playoffs for the 4th straight season.

Interesting stat. But the 7 team system is what it is now, so MLF has made 2 straight playoffs.

I'd be more concerned if we don't make the playoffs or we have a first round exit this season. I expect the team to improve with Jordan Love in his prime. But we took a step backwards last season (lost in the WC round, when we lost in the Divisional Round the previous season). If we lose again in the WC round this season, or worse, don't even make the playoffs, that'd be bad. MLF should have this team improving.

 

[Magooch]

As crummy as it sounds too I have to wonder if injuries to Parsons, Kraft, potentially Watson, etc may serve as a saving grace for Matt and/or Gute. Obviously it's impossible to know at this point, but I have to think if we had those guys and happened to have another early playoff exit it might really turn up the temp on MLF/Gute. Now in the event we make playoffs and get bounced early we can point to these losses as extenuating circumstances...

(I mean, naturally I hope we still manage to make a deeper run, but just a thought exercise at least)

 

[tynimiller]

Sure, Gute is very good in free agency…not so much the draft though.

Wait what...his last couple have been rippers and 2024 hit well before any rookie class should beyond that like one rare immediate day in and day out starter that contributes not just stays afloat...

Edgerrin Cooper, Evan Williams and Javon Bullard all essentially Day 1 obvious blessings to have and by end of year 1 were rocking.

 

[adambr2]

Nope, but his win-loss record does

So MLF gets credit for the regular season win/loss record, and Gute does not get credit for assembling the rosters that achieved that win/loss record.

 

[Half Empty]

There are a LOT of non-subjective metrics - winning being one of the most crucial ones where he is better than nearly all of those guys really though. Even MLF haters cannot escape the fact that if MLF became available tomorrow likely 15 teams are calling him before the ink dries on the newpaper story...

Isn't that what many are saying here? If he replaced one of those 15, he'd pretty much, by definition, be in the bottom half.