Fire Matt LaFleur

[SudsMcBucky]

See post #92 in this thread

He was actually a HC for 10 years, not 7, before winning a SB.

 

[Magooch]

He was actually a HC for 10 years, not 7, before winning a SB.

That list is years with *current* team before winning a Super Bowl.

Reid made it to the Super Bowl in his 6th season with Philly (lost) and overall was Philly’s head coach for 14 years without a Super Bowl win.

His first season as Chiefs head coach was 2013 and they won it in 2019 (year seven with Chiefs, his 21st year as a head coach overall)

 

[SudsMcBucky]

That list is years with *current* team before winning a Super Bowl.

Reid made it to the Super Bowl in his 6th season with Philly (lost) and overall was Philly’s head coach for 14 years without a Super Bowl win.

His first season as Chiefs head coach was 2013 and they won it in 2019 (year seven with Chiefs, his 21st year as a head coach overall)

I guess I didn't see in the post I quoted where it was with their "current" team.

 

[OldSchool101]

Every single Bears, Lions and Vikings fan friend of mine all WANT us to fire MLF….that says A LOT

Yes, That’s very telling.

The more I read up on our last pair of losses, the more I’m convinced that by cleaning up several small details, we likely Win 1 of 2 games. I’m trying to be realistic here. Nobody would even be talking of firing Matt if we were 6-2-1 and 1st place in the North or they’d be bonkers. We just played Philly and we all 100% knew this was our top 2 toughest games remaining. As much as some are praising Chicago, they really haven’t played anyone. We all said they were likely improved so why would we expect their easiest batch of contests to be all losses? 15-41-1. So no not Chicago and I’ll stand by that! Detroit being the other.

Gotta clean some stuff up. Just one area is we’re in the 27th% of teams (22) with 9 games played with penalties. Although imo many of these are very fixable and some of it is skewed due to in-game replacements. Tom,Banks and now Elgton have all went through various injuries. Sean Rhyan had only played 4 games with 86%+ snaps, the bulk (5) of his games were 0%-68% snaps.
The continuity grade against a C normal scale is C-D+ imo. We will struggle more often than not with a rotation of bodies at OL. Rasheed Walker is the only OL not to miss time and we only made half way through the season. That’s an area that had caused much of our blocking and penalty mishaps. So it’s less on talent level and more on consistency and discipline imo. Discipline we can fix. Consistency is a combination of injury and our choice of staying the course in preparation.

 

[Magooch]

I guess I didn't see in the post I quoted where it was with their "current" team.

Current team was specified previously as IMO you often have situations where a particular coach might not be successful with one team but finds a better fit/success with another one. Reid is a great example of this. 14 years with the Eagles and one SB appearance...then wins a SB in half that time with the Chiefs.

In any case if you are looking solely at the time between becoming a head coach in any capacity and winning the Super Bowl, it was 21 years for Andy Reid. Head coach since 1999, didn't win it until 2019. I'm not sure where 10 years enters the picture no matter how you slice it.

 

[AKCheese]

I see 9-7-1 as most probable
If thats the case it’ll be interesting
I’ve never been THAT impressed by MLF
Then again I wasnt that impressed by MM either. One (lets be honest) pretty flukey Super Bowl and tons of underachievement

 

[OldSchool101]

I see 9-7-1 as most probable
If thats the case it’ll be interesting
I’ve never been THAT impressed by MLF
Then again I wasnt that impressed by MM either. One (lets be honest) pretty flukey Super Bowl and tons of underachievement

If we can recalibrate this week and start 6-3-1? I see us winning 4 of the last 7 games. I don’t think The Vikings or Bears are favored over us and that’s 4 of our last 7 games or the bulk of our remaining games.

 

[DoURant]

Does somebody else deserve a shot at head coach? If the Packers don't show that they're ready to compete for a Super Bowl after getting Micah Parsons, then moving on from MLF after the season should be taken seriously. The question is who would you replace him with? There aren't many Dan Campbell's out there.

If they end up firing LaFleur, I would like to see Hafley get an shot. He can continue to build this Defense, and find Coordinator to run the Offense.

 

[Sanguine camper]

It took Andy Reid 10 years. Not sure who else fits that.

Reid took his Eagles to the Super Bowl in his first couple of seasons but was beaten by the Patriots. I think the list is very convincing that the vast majority of successful head coaches find that success quite quickly. While there are a few exceptions like Bill Cowher, if a coach can't get his team over the hump in 7 seasons, keeping him around longer is not likely to end up with anything but more brutal playoff losses.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I'm not ready for him to be fired. We have made the post season just about every year he's been here. But I am getting concerned that he seems to be in the same rut MM was in. Doing the same thing expecting different results.

 

[gopkrs]

I'm not ready for him to be fired. We have made the post season just about every year he's been here. But I am getting concerned that he seems to be in the same rut MM was in. Doing the same thing expecting different results.

And that is very concerning. That, to me, he seems to be trying to force an offensive philosophy where it isn't fitting.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

Reid took his Eagles to the Super Bowl in his first couple of seasons but was beaten by the Patriots. I think the list is very convincing that the vast majority of successful head coaches find that success quite quickly. While there are a few exceptions like Bill Cowher, if a coach can't get his team over the hump in 7 seasons, keeping him around longer is not likely to end up with anything but more brutal playoff losses.

The question about "taking" their team to a SB. The question was posed about "winning" a SB.

 

[tynimiller]

I will go on record and continue to say:

-Firing MLF now would be a catastrophic mistep and I would have zero ability to understand it.
-Firing him after the season in my opinion would be bad and I would barely be able to understand it.
-Firing him after 2026 season if similar issues of zero adaption and changes appear I would be split on it if we are still a playoff caliber team...but would understand it.

 

[Magooch]

So there has been a lot of chatter lately about LaFleur giving up playcalling. For his part Matt says he doesn't intend to do that.

Which, to be honest, part of me thinks that would be the right idea, but it comes with our own problems. First off, playcalling head coaches are more and more common nowadays it seems. But beyond that, if not Matt, then who? Would we rather have Bisaccia or Stenavich or...? I'm not sure that instills a ton of confidence right now either. You may also recall after the Seahawks debacle, McCarthy gave up playcalling...and then I think just a year later went back to calling plays and said "I'm never giving that up again," haha.

Just for my own curiosity though I thought it would be interesting to look at who calls plays for teams across the league right now. The following is at least accurate as of the start of the season, I haven't kept up if there's been any changes mid-season

Head Coaches as Playcaller:
49ers - Kyle Shanahan
Bears - Ben Johnson
Bengals - Zac Taylor
Broncos - Sean Payton
Browns - Kevin Stefanski
Chiefs - Andy Reid
Colts - Shane Steichen
Cowboys - Brian Schottenheimer
Dolphins - Mike McDaniel
Jaguars - Liam Coen
Packers - Matt LaFleur
Panthers - Dave Canales
Rams - Sean McVay
Saints - Kellen Moore
Titans - Brian Callahan (Of course he has since been fired. I'm not sure if the interim HC is calling plays or not)
Vikings - Kevin O'Connell

Non-HC as Playcaller:
Bills - OC Joe Brady
Buccaneers - OC Josh Grizzard
Cardinals - OC Drew Petzing
Chargers - OC Greg Roman
Commanders - OC Kliff Kingsbury
Eagles - OC Kevin Patullo
Falcons - OC Zac Robinson
Giants - OC Mike Kafka (Assistant HC to start the season; he is now interim HC after Daboll's firing)
Jets - OC Tanner Engstrand
Lions - OC JOhn Morton
Patriots - OC Josh McDaniels
Raiders - OC Chip Kelly
Ravens - OC Todd Monken
Seahawks - OC Klint Kubiak
Steelers - OC Arthur Smith
Texans - OC Nick Caley

So as it just so happens, it is pretty much 50-50 right now between having your head coach or someone else call plays.

 

[Magooch]

I will go on record and continue to say:

-Firing MLF now would be a catastrophic mistep and I would have zero ability to understand it.
-Firing him after the season in my opinion would be bad and I would barely be able to understand it.
-Firing him after 2026 season if similar issues of zero adaption and changes appear I would be split on it if we are still a playoff caliber team...but would understand it.

I don't think we really benefit anything whatsoever from firing him right now. IMO that is basically throwing in the towel on this season and saying better luck next year. And to be honest barring some kind of absolutely catastrophic failure or some kind of egregious misconduct, I don't think anyone is seriously considering it as a possibility. I have certainly had my complaints with some of the way Matt has handled things but the bottom line is that you don't fire someone at 5-3-1 to "save your season" or whatever. Unless he gets caught up in a sports betting scandal or the locker room totally mutinies or something crazy like that, he will see out the year for sure.

SO with that in mind IMO the bigger question is not so much about firing him but rather what you do with his contract situation. Because he is only under contract through 25/26 season. And we know that Policy does not want to have a "lame duck" head coach, so we should likely expect some sort of decision one way or the other after this season.

Do you hand out a short-term extension? Personally I don't really like the idea of handing out a "prove it deal" to your head coach. That does not seem like a recipe for success to me and TBH just seems like a delayed lame-duck deal lol.

Do you go ahead and commit to a long-term deal? What would need to happen to make you comfortable (or not) with handing out another 3-4 years contract to Matt?

Or, alternatively, since he is still under contract for one more year...do you seek out a trade?? Hasn't really been given much serious consideration I suspect as it's quite rare....But I don't know. Even if we conclude it hasn't worked out in GB, I think he would have no shortage of suitors, he would be a hot commodity if we made him available I think...

It's a really tough call IMO. Personally what I am HOPING will happen is that we get things turned around the right direction, get a little late season momentum built up, and end up seeing enough down the stretch to feel comfortable with extending and continuing on with Matt. Like I said, I've had my gripes but overall I like Matt and think he brings a lot of good to the table. IMO our best-case scenario is still the one in which he turns it around here with us, that's first-choice. But unfortunately I am not super confident in that happening right now, so I don't know...

 

[Sanguine camper]

I will go on record and continue to say:

-Firing MLF now would be a catastrophic mistep and I would have zero ability to understand it.
-Firing him after the season in my opinion would be bad and I would barely be able to understand it.
-Firing him after 2026 season if similar issues of zero adaption and changes appear I would be split on it if we are still a playoff caliber team...but would understand it.

I agree firing LaFleur in mid-season makes no sense. But why keep him around in 2026? If he hasn't gotten his teams over the hump in 7 seasons, the 8th season is probably not going to be the charm.

It takes a special kind of incompetence to add Micah Parsons and get worse.

 

[tynimiller]

I agree firing LaFleur in mid-season makes no sense. But why keep him around in 2026? If he hasn't gotten his teams over the hump in 7 seasons, the 8th season is probably not going to be the charm.

It takes a special kind of incompetence to add Micah Parsons and get worse.

It’s a special kind of incompentence to claim they’re worse and the season isn’t even done?

Parsons impacts the defense and they’re STOUT.

 

[rmontro]

This isn't so much about MLF, but is it even possible to win a Super Bowl without a good OL? Because it seems like that's where we're positioned right now.

I've heard some commentators saying we need to be more aggressive offensively, instead of relying so much on our defense. That sounds right to me, but if our OL stinks I'm not sure how much it will help.

The other thing I'm concerned about is that this might be Hafley's last year with us, because he is probably going to be poached by other teams next year. I hate to waste this Super Bowl calibre defense on a year because the offense can't get it together.

 

[milani]

This isn't so much about MLF, but is it even possible to win a Super Bowl without a good OL? Because it seems like that's where we're positioned right now.

I've heard some commentators saying we need to be more aggressive offensively, instead of relying so much on our defense. That sounds right to me, but if our OL stinks I'm not sure how much it will help.

The other thing I'm concerned about is that this might be Hafley's last year with us, because he is probably going to be poached by other teams next year. I hate to waste this Super Bowl calibre defense on a year because the offense can't get it together.

Yes, we have to have an offensive line that can block and protect. And the team we play Sunday is interested in Hafley.

 

[OldSchool101]

This isn't so much about MLF, but is it even possible to win a Super Bowl without a good OL? Because it seems like that's where we're positioned right now.

I've heard some commentators saying we need to be more aggressive offensively, instead of relying so much on our defense. That sounds right to me, but if our OL stinks I'm not sure how much it will help.

The other thing I'm concerned about is that this might be Hafley's last year with us, because he is probably going to be poached by other teams next year. I hate to waste this Super Bowl calibre defense on a year because the offense can't get it together.

good points.

This is just my 2 cents worth.
Our Tackles are pretty solid as a unit.

Our interior should be our focus. There’s plenty of film to get our Guards functioning more smoothly. We also have the Coaching experience, so I think we’ll improve some if we can just stay intact on the field.

I still believe Morgan plays better outside at Tackle. I just don’t think we have an ability to shake up the OL much at all. It would be very risky to go musical chairs, so we need to get that interior group on the same page and make sure they are passing off blocks and getting to the second level. Most importantly they just need to lock on to the Defenders. The NFL allows OL to really hold quite a bit as long as it’s not blatant. Such as pulling a Jersey or reaching and grabbing a guy who beat you.

 

[Pugger]

Yes, That’s very telling.

The more I read up on our last pair of losses, the more I’m convinced that by cleaning up several small details, we likely Win 1 of 2 games. I’m trying to be realistic here. Nobody would even be talking of firing Matt if we were 6-2-1 and 1st place in the North or they’d be bonkers. We just played Philly and we all 100% knew this was our top 2 toughest games remaining. As much as some are praising Chicago, they really haven’t played anyone. We all said they were likely improved so why would we expect their easiest batch of contests to be all losses? 15-41-1. So no not Chicago and I’ll stand by that! Detroit being the other.

Gotta clean some stuff up. Just one area is we’re in the 27th% of teams (22) with 9 games played with penalties. Although imo many of these are very fixable and some of it is skewed due to in-game replacements. Tom,Banks and now Elgton have all went through various injuries. Sean Rhyan had only played 4 games with 86%+ snaps, the bulk (5) of his games were 0%-68% snaps.
The continuity grade against a C normal scale is C-D+ imo. We will struggle more often than not with a rotation of bodies at OL. Rasheed Walker is the only OL not to miss time and we only made half way through the season. That’s an area that had caused much of our blocking and penalty mishaps. So it’s less on talent level and more on consistency and discipline imo. Discipline we can fix. Consistency is a combination of injury and our choice of staying the course in preparation.

MLF says almost every week "we gotta clean that up" but the team continues to keep making those mistakes year after year. Is this a coaching issue or are our players intellectually challenged? Or both?

 

[Pugger]

It’s a special kind of incompentence to claim they’re worse and the season isn’t even done?

Parsons impacts the defense and they’re STOUT.

The D is better with Parsons but the offense is sputtering big time and that is supposed to be Matt's forte.

 

[shockerx]

The D is better with Parsons but the offense is sputtering big time and that is supposed to be Matt's forte.

I thought we were not to talk about other team's players...why are we talking about Matt Forte of the Chicago Bears!

 

[milani]

MLF says almost every week "we gotta clean that up" but the team continues to keep making those mistakes year after year. Is this a coaching issue or are our players intellectually challenged? Or both?

Both, but more on coaching. Coaches have to measure development. But coaches have to measure the development of their game plan as well. Lombardi's famous practice line was " Whaddya mean ya got it? If ya got it ya would had it! "

 

[Pugger]

I thought we were not to talk about other team's players...why are we talking about Matt Forte of the Chicago Bears!

Very nice! I didn't catch it when I first posted it.

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