Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[adambr2]

Ed Donnatell was not a bad DC.

Shame that Mike Sherman did him like he did.

 

[milani]

The quickest way to lose a game, especially if you're on the road and an underdog is to drop on interception. My high school football coach preached that. Funny that the guys who can’t catch play defense.

And that is true. There are a few exceptions. Herb Adderley comes to mind. Lombardi moved him from offense to defense and he is in the HOF.

 

[milani]

I mean if we're going to judge any coach by one singular bad game, Dan Quinn would have been shown the door a week ago.

The defense overall was very good in 2009.

Drew Brees lit us up that year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree 2 new starting safeties is a priority, but I like Owens and Ford as backups.

I agreed with your post, but there is something I don't like about Owens. He can make great plays once in awhile, but also really boneheaded ones. I guess this is why you didn't say he was a starter, but more of a backup. I actually thought he might be cut after one of the games where he picked up a personal foul for a late hit and also totally blew coverage and a tackle.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As for Greenlaw not going down. He didn't have Julius Peppers on the team otherwise he would have taken a knee early.

 

[milani]

I agreed with your post, but there is something I don't like about Owens. He can make great plays once in awhile, but also really boneheaded ones. I guess this is why you didn't say he was a starter, but more of a backup. I actually thought he might be cut after one of the games where he picked up a personal foul for a late hit and also totally blew coverage and a tackle.

Wasn't he the last one that could have stopped McCaffrey on that 39 yard run?

 

[milani]

Ed Donnatell was not a bad DC.

Shame that Mike Sherman did him like he did.

That one always intrigues me. They blame the D for the 4th and 26. But the offense was maybe more guilty in that game. 1st and goal at the 5 and came up empty. 3rd and short inside the 40. INT in OT. Our D sacked McNabb 11 times that day by blitzing. So who called the prevent on 4th and 26? Was it Ed or did Sherman override a blitz?

 

[Heyjoe4]

I also think MLF didn't make proper use of his timeouts when the 9'ers had the ball. He definitely should have used at least 1 prior to the 2 minute warning. I get it, he figured it would be nice to have them all and the ball, but a young QB with under a minute left on the clock, needing a FG to tie it up, is going to put way too much pressure on each throw.

My theory with timeouts. If it looks like you are going to need another offensive possession to tie or win the game, then use your timeouts on defense when the clock is running. When you are on offense, you have much more control of the game clock.

Agreed. MLF let about 30 seconds run off.

Now one minute and three TOs would have been child's play for Rodgers in his prime. As you note, Love is still new to this. Painful loss but I'm guessing he never makes a throw like that again. or at least until he can master such a difficult throw. He does learn from his mistakes, certainly a strength.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Wasn't he the last one that could have stopped McCaffrey on that 39 yard run?

I think it was Savage. Arm tackle instead of wrapping up. Then again CM is so fast, easy to second guess. He had a huge lane to run through.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That one always intrigues me. They blame the D for the 4th and 26. But the offense was maybe more guilty in that game. 1st and goal at the 5 and came up empty. 3rd and short inside the 40. INT in OT. Our D sacked McNabb 11 times that day by blitzing. So who called the prevent on 4th and 26? Was it Ed or did Sherman override a blitz?

We all remember that. They made t-shirts in Philly. But with 4th and 26, a prevent would have been the right call. Freak play.

 

[adambr2]

As I recall it, Donatell called for a blitz, and Sherman overrode him and called for the deep zone.

 

[Heyjoe4]

As I recall it, Donatell called for a blitz, and Sherman overrode him and called for the deep zone.

Interesting. I would think a prevent formation would be the right call. Either way, it went terribly wrong in the execution.

 

[Team Ronny]

I think it was Savage. Arm tackle instead of wrapping up. Then again CM is so fast, easy to second guess. He had a huge lane to run

 

[Team Ronny]

That play wouldn't happen if they had a more stout dline or better lbs! We have an average front 7 for 58 minutes, which can get you some wins. They totally SUCK when the game is on the line though! Need more powerful, athletic guys, with a little more speed in there.

 

[adambr2]

Interesting. I would think a prevent formation would be the right call. Either way, it went terribly wrong in the execution.

I think the idea behind a blitz in those situations with it being so far to go is that you're going to get to the QB before anything even has a chance to develop that far downfield. I'm a fan of the strategy-- but you obviously have to get home.

Even if you do there's of course always the chance of the QB managing to get the ball downfield and magic happening (see Rodgers to Janis Hail Mary).

I can see the merit of both approaches. But there's never a zero chance of something horrible happening, either way.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I think the idea behind a blitz in those situations with it being so far to go is that you're going to get to the QB before anything even has a chance to develop that far downfield. I'm a fan of the strategy-- but you obviously have to get home.

Did we even blitz at all in that game?

 

[adambr2]

Drew Brees lit us up that year.

I'm going to say highly unlikely since we didn't play the Saints in 2009.

 

[adambr2]

Did we even blitz at all in that game?

Beats me...20 years ago. All I remember is pleading with Mike Sherman to go for it on 4th and inches from the 40 with a shot to put the game away and he punted...

Then the 4th and 26....then the Favre INT in OT...the painful things.

 

[gopkrs]

Did we even blitz at all in that game?

I didn't see any stunts either. Just watched each of them go straight ahead. Not effective. At least in the 2nd half.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have been watching a lot of playoff games this year, normally I don't. I can't help to think about Joe Barry and the Packers defense when I am watching games. I think Packer fans just expect Barry and the defense to shut every team down and force 3 and outs on every drive. Just doesn't happen. Even the Browns, who were considered to be one of the best defenses in the NFL in 2023, gave up 45 points to the Texans. The Jets and Cowboys had top 5 defenses, where did it get them?

I really don't know what my point is, but all these people pointing to Joe Barry as the reason that the Packers aren't advancing to the NFCCG on Sunday, there is more to it than just that. Again, I am on the Joe Barry fence, but firing him just to fire him, guarantees the Packers nothing, but having a new DC in 2024.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Wasn't he the last one that could have stopped McCaffrey on that 39 yard run?

Could be. However, without going through every snap he played in, my eyes tells me that he makes far fewer "great plays" than he does "bad plays."

 

[adambr2]

I have been watching a lot of playoff games this year, normally I don't. I can't help to think about Joe Barry and the Packers defense when I am watching games. I think Packer fans just expect Barry and the defense to shut every team down and force 3 and outs on every drive. Just doesn't happen. Even the Browns, who were considered to be one of the best defenses in the NFL in 2023, gave up 45 points to the Texans. The Jets and Cowboys had top 5 defenses, where did it get them?

I really don't know what my point is, but all these people pointing to Joe Barry as the reason that the Packers aren't advancing to the NFCCG on Sunday, there is more to it than just that. Again, I am on the Joe Barry fence, but firing him just to fire him, guarantees the Packers nothing, but having a new DC in 2024.

He's contract is expiring, so he's not being "fired" per se.

My biggest issue with Barry is that he is not someone who is going to add to the overall performance of the defense with his creativity. The absolute most you are going to get from a Joe Barry defense is the sum of its parts from a talent standpoint, and nothing more. Obviously some weeks they show up, and some they don't.

IMO we have been conditioned to believe that a defense that is ranked near the middle is the maximum of what we should expect. I don't believe that to be the case and I don't believe that is the bar that we've set with the level of talent that we've drafted and developed on the defensive side of the ball.

Probably the biggest factor to me is whether or not the players buy into him and his system. I'd be inclined to say they really don't, but I'm obviously not close enough to the locker room to know for sure.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Beats me...20 years ago. All I remember is pleading with Mike Sherman to go for it on 4th and inches from the 40 with a shot to put the game away and he punted...

Then the 4th and 26....then the Favre INT in OT...the painful things.

No I was actually talking about the most recent game.

 

[BrokenArrow]

That play wouldn't happen if they had a more stout dline or better lbs! We have an average front 7 for 58 minutes, which can get you some wins. They totally SUCK when the game is on the line though! Need more powerful, athletic guys, with a little more speed in there.

Did SF need a stouter dline and better linebackers when AJ33 had his big run? Point being, you can't win them all.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think it was Savage. Arm tackle instead of wrapping up. Then again CM is so fast, easy to second guess. He had a huge lane to run through.

Because he so easily blew through Savage.