Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

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adambr2

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My take is he gone. But I'm obviously making an assumption here.
 

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milani

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Interesting. I would think a prevent formation would be the right call. Either way, it went terribly wrong in the execution.
Normally, yes. But they had sacked McNabb 11 times up to that time. You do what works.
 

gopkrs

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He's contract is expiring, so he's not being "fired" per se.

My biggest issue with Barry is that he is not someone who is going to add to the overall performance of the defense with his creativity. The absolute most you are going to get from a Joe Barry defense is the sum of its parts from a talent standpoint, and nothing more. Obviously some weeks they show up, and some they don't.

IMO we have been conditioned to believe that a defense that is ranked near the middle is the maximum of what we should expect. I don't believe that to be the case and I don't believe that is the bar that we've set with the level of talent that we've drafted and developed on the defensive side of the ball.

Probably the biggest factor to me is whether or not the players buy into him and his system. I'd be inclined to say they really don't, but I'm obviously not close enough to the locker room to know for sure.
Even if they do buy into it; they are not going to stop a team marching down the field if all the defenders play way off the receivers. And that happened again this game. A lot of gains from short passes to our right side. At least in the 4th.
 

Heyjoe4

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I have been watching a lot of playoff games this year, normally I don't. I can't help to think about Joe Barry and the Packers defense when I am watching games. I think Packer fans just expect Barry and the defense to shut every team down and force 3 and outs on every drive. Just doesn't happen. Even the Browns, who were considered to be one of the best defenses in the NFL in 2023, gave up 45 points to the Texans. The Jets and Cowboys had top 5 defenses, where did it get them?

I really don't know what my point is, but all these people pointing to Joe Barry as the reason that the Packers aren't advancing to the NFCCG on Sunday, there is more to it than just that. Again, I am on the Joe Barry fence, but firing him just to fire him, guarantees the Packers nothing, but having a new DC in 2024.
What's weird about the Joe Barry situation to me is, looking at his history and track record, why hire him in the first place? But whatever, that's the past.

It seemed the consensus in the post-game comments was to get rid of Carlson (if not order a hit on the guy....). I looked at the game and saw an offense with three red zone possessions and 6 points.

As for Barry, I'd like to see a younger guy with some credentials, even limited, and some creativity. Head coaches are getting hired in their 30s, why not coordinators?

Now that I've sort of gotten over the initial sting of the loss, I feel pretty good about this team. We have more to look forward to than we thought back in September, I think. The FO can decide Barry's fate. Carlson will get some competition. Love has learned that having the ball with one minute and three TOs is a lifetime and there is no need to force anything. This team has a bright future.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Love has learned that having the ball with one minute and three TOs is a lifetime and there is no need to force anything. This team has a bright future.
I have seen this narrative going around the internet...."Love cost the Packers the game and forced that final throw". While I get it, Love shouldn't have tried to make that throw to Watson he had 2-3 guys around him, I wanted to point out a few things. I have since watched that play probably a dozen times. When Love released that ball, Greenlaw probably wasn't in his view. Greenlaw made a great play on it, running from his sideline coverage and getting there in time to make a diving interception. Had Greenlaw not made a great play, I think that pass falls well short of Watson, Gipson and Fred Warner. Warner would have had to make an even better diving catch to secure it. Anyway, with 52 seconds left and from his own 36, Love knew he needed to pick up at least 34 or more yards to get in FG range and a TD seals it. He was under a ton of pressure on that play and may have been trying to just underthrow Watson, but didn't see Greenlaw. Hopefully, he learns from the play and next time throws it much shorter, without grounding it.

Honestly, Love should have tucked the ball and ran. Something I really don't think he does enough of and MLF needs to give him the redlight to do it. Seems if he had gotten around Bosa, he had a ton of open field out in front of him.

Edit: Almost forgot to add. If you watch that play again, Aaron Jones sticks around the LOS to help block Bosa, but then releases. I assume it was designed so that if Love didn't have an open receiver, Jones was his outlet pass. Problem is, he slips and stumbles while trying to get away from the LOS. Now it just kills me to watch it, since had he not slipped, he becomes wide open and Love has a simple toss to him and he rambles for a lot of yards.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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My take is he gone. But I'm obviously making an assumption here.
Could be, but I think MLF is doing what he always has done after a season, evaluates. No knee jerk, in the moment reactions. I appreciate that. Given that Barry's contract is up, it will be much easier for Matt to say "we are looking for more consistency on defense and decided to go another direction." Had he said it on Saturday night, people would have called a heat of the moment decision.
 

Sunshinepacker

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If MLF is going to do what he's always done, it will be ignore the efficacy of Joe Barry's job skills and continue to employ the worst DC in the NFL. Single biggest step forward this team could make this off-season would be to hire a competent (not even good!) DC.
 

tynimiller

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If MLF is going to do what he's always done, it will be ignore the efficacy of Joe Barry's job skills and continue to employ the worst DC in the NFL. Single biggest step forward this team could make this off-season would be to hire a competent (not even good!) DC.

I don't believe there is a statistical measure or advanced metric that would support the claim he was the worst.

I still want him gone, but fair is fair.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I don't believe there is a statistical measure or advanced metric that would support the claim he was the worst.

I still want him gone, but fair is fair.
While I find myself struggling to argue in favor of keeping Barry, besides maybe saying that with his last 4 games, he is fine. I am also finding some fans reaction over the top.

Maybe the over the top evaluation is just pent-up hostility of being on our 3rd DC in 7 season and none of them seemed to have the answers, at least consistently.
 

adambr2

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While I find myself struggling to argue in favor of keeping Barry, besides maybe saying that with his last 4 games, he is fine. I am also finding some fans reaction over the top.

Maybe the over the top evaluation is just pent-up hostility of being on our 3rd DC in 7 season and none of them seemed to have the answers, at least consistently.
I have to assume if you think that Joe Barry is "fine", you do not think we have enough talent on defense to be a top 5 or 10 defense.

If you do believe that we do, Barry is clearly underachieving.
 

milani

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I have seen this narrative going around the internet...."Love cost the Packers the game and forced that final throw". While I get it, Love shouldn't have tried to make that throw to Watson he had 2-3 guys around him, I wanted to point out a few things. I have since watched that play probably a dozen times. When Love released that ball, Greenlaw probably wasn't in his view. Greenlaw made a great play on it, running from his sideline coverage and getting there in time to make a diving interception. Had Greenlaw not made a great play, I think that pass falls well short of Watson, Gipson and Fred Warner. Warner would have had to make an even better diving catch to secure it. Anyway, with 52 seconds left and from his own 36, Love knew he needed to pick up at least 34 or more yards to get in FG range and a TD seals it. He was under a ton of pressure on that play and may have been trying to just underthrow Watson, but didn't see Greenlaw. Hopefully, he learns from the play and next time throws it much shorter, without grounding it.

Honestly, Love should have tucked the ball and ran. Something I really don't think he does enough of and MLF needs to give him the redlight to do it. Seems if he had gotten around Bosa, he had a ton of open field out in front of him.

Edit: Almost forgot to add. If you watch that play again, Aaron Jones sticks around the LOS to help block Bosa, but then releases. I assume it was designed so that if Love didn't have an open receiver, Jones was his outlet pass. Problem is, he slips and stumbles while trying to get away from the LOS. Now it just kills me to watch it, since had he not slipped, he becomes wide open and Love has a simple toss to him and he rambles for a lot of yards.
I think MLF said it best. It never should have come down to that. Every failed opportunity precipitates a new scenario.
 

rmontro

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The Packer defense again made history. What was the stat they kept talking about? That Shanahan's 49ers have never come back to win entering the fourth quarter five points down or more? The Packers were ahead by seven going into the fourth quarter, and again accomplished something that had never been done before.
 

milani

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The Packer defense again made history. What was the stat they kept talking about? That Shanahan's 49ers have never come back to win entering the fourth quarter five points down or more? The Packers were ahead by seven going into the fourth quarter, and again accomplished something that had never been done before.
A first!
 

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Not only that, but apparently MLF said that the Packers defense was "fantastic" against the 49ers.
 

milani

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Not only that, but apparently MLF said that the Packers defense was "fantastic" against the 49ers.
Well, the D played worse against lesser offenses during the season.
 

adambr2

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I don't believe there is a statistical measure or advanced metric that would support the claim he was the worst.

I still want him gone, but fair is fair.
"Worst" is obviously a subjective measurement for something like "Worst DC", but none of this suggests "good DC."
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tynimiller

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"Worst" is obviously a subjective measurement for something like "Worst DC", but none of this suggests "good DC."
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Was curious if anyone was going to bring up DVOA, it is his worst metric measurement I've found. He lives very much in the middle of the road 12th-22nd in things like points, yards, and such against often many years here in GB.

I fully expect he is going to be gone.
 

BrokenArrow

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Well, here we are at Tuesday morning and Barry is still under contract. I would say if he's not gone by tomorrow or maybe Thursday, he's not going anywhere.
 

tynimiller

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Well, here we are at Tuesday morning and Barry is still under contract. I would say if he's not gone by tomorrow or maybe Thursday, he's not going anywhere.

MLF is not a rush decision maker, I don't think that would mean much truthfully.
 

Poppa San

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Well, here we are at Tuesday morning and Barry is still under contract. I would say if he's not gone by tomorrow or maybe Thursday, he's not going anywhere.
I'm wondering if MLF might be waiting to see if Vrabel lands a HC gig before cutting JB loose.
 

pacmaniac

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Well, here we are at Tuesday morning and Barry is still under contract. I would say if he's not gone by tomorrow or maybe Thursday, he's not going anywhere.
Maybe give it a little longer. The Packers didn't fire Mo Drayton until Feb 1, 2022.
 

tynimiller

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I'm wondering if MLF might be waiting to see if Vrabel lands a HC gig before cutting JB loose.
It's definitely a possibility. If we signed Vrabel as DC I bet we would have the highest paid DC I bet...after Rich was at least when signed the highest paid ST coach.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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It's definitely a possibility. If we signed Vrabel as DC I bet we would have the highest paid DC I bet...after Rich was at least when signed the highest paid ST coach.
Does anyone even know what the coaches are paid? For me it doesn't matter, as long as they have it in their war chest and it doesn't effect the cap. If they can snag Vrabel and it costs a big bucket of money, who is going to notice? I mean at least until a new thread is started...."Fire Vrabel".
 
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