Fire Drayton

easyk83

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I should have also added, Drayton was a special teams assistant under both Mennenga and Zook. That alone should give someone pause. ;)

On the positive side, looks like MLF has given Drayton the rest of the season to prove his ability to coach, I just hope it works out and doesn't cost us a playoff game. Would love to see Drayton coaching the Packers next year, if it means we have solid special teams.

I will end it with a silver lining....The good news....Packers special teams should be safe from COVID since they were no where near anyone on Sunday. :)

Well if the ST Coach is that bad, what are his assistants like?
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Well if the ST Coach is that bad, what are his assistants like?
That is what I am afraid of. I get it, Mo Drayton is a popular guy with the team, he sounds like a very nice guy. However, the NFL is a competitive league and coaches don't stick around too long (see Urban Meyers, etc.) when they can't show progress. I would say at this point, Drayton hasn't shown a lot of progress and if the Bear game wasn't an anomaly, then things are even worse than they were under his 2 former bosses, Zook and Mennenga.
 
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But what if that isn't the problem?

It's possible that replacing Drayton won't result in any improvement but in my opinion there's no other option left.

There's no way to exchange the players on the bottom of the roster who play the majority of snaps on special teams with better ones at this point in the season.
 
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There's no way to exchange the players on the bottom of the roster who play the majority of snaps on special teams with better ones at this point in the season.
Actually there is and we may see it soon. You replace them with some of the starters. Not really a move that I fully endorse, since you are risking injury to said starters. However, if the lower level guys consistently can't get it done, what choice will the Packers have in the Playoffs when it is win or go home?

The question is, if Drayton isn't that great of a coach, will a few better players even improve Special Teams? MVS and Adams were out there for the Bears onside kick and MVS looked like he had never fielded an onside kick in his life.
 

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From Marc Eversol a few days ago - going to paraphrase:

- Drayton is a very dynamic, charismatic leader. After listening to him, I was ready to run through a brick wall. He is very detail oriented and is loved by his players. There was an issue that the players on the special teams didn't take it seriously enough. They were called out by veteran leaders after the Chicago debacle.


Personally, I am curious to see if they can pull this out of the gutter with no major changes, and just the criticism from veterans. For some reason, I like Drayton and hope we focus on adding a couple of ST aces next year. Certainly this has to be talked about at the Gute level. I trust him to correct the problem.
 

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The question is, if Drayton isn't that great of a coach, will a few better players even improve Special Teams? MVS and Adams were out there for the Bears onside kick and MVS looked like he had never fielded an onside kick in his life.
I thought MVS was a bad choice on Special Teams. I think I would have had Aaron Jones out there. Better hands. Also Mercedes Lewis and AJ dillon both have good hands and can't be pushed around. MVS's best attribute is size and speed, not hands. Hands have improved ( no dropped passes this season).
 
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I thought MVS was a bad choice on Special Teams. I think I would have had Aaron Jones out there. Better hands. Also Mercedes Lewis and AJ dillon both have good hands and can't be pushed around. MVS's best attribute is size and speed, not hands. Hands have improved ( no dropped passes this season).
Agree. MVS also had a pass that night that he high pointed, but instead of catching the ball with just his hands and maintaining possession, he tried to pull it into his body to secure it, and the defender simply knocked it out, incomplete. Don't get me wrong, I like MVS's speed and the occasional long ball that he and Rodgers hook up on, but his hands, route running and physical strength are not what I consider pluses for him.
 

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Agree. MVS also had a pass that night that he high pointed, but instead of catching the ball with just his hands and maintaining possession, he tried to pull it into his body to secure it, and the defender simply knocked it out, incomplete. Don't get me wrong, I like MVS's speed and the occasional long ball that he and Rodgers hook up on, but his hands, route running and physical strength are not what I consider pluses for him.
Stop making sense...Drayton is priming Bojorquez for onside kick returning duties...lol
 

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From Marc Eversol a few days ago - going to paraphrase:

- Drayton is a very dynamic, charismatic leader. After listening to him, I was ready to run through a brick wall. He is very detail oriented and is loved by his players. There was an issue that the players on the special teams didn't take it seriously enough. They were called out by veteran leaders after the Chicago debacle.
The ST coach himself needs to address the problems. Not wait for veteran players to get involved.
 
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From Marc Eversol a few days ago - going to paraphrase:

- Drayton is a very dynamic, charismatic leader. After listening to him, I was ready to run through a brick wall. He is very detail oriented and is loved by his players. There was an issue that the players on the special teams didn't take it seriously enough. They were called out by veteran leaders after the Chicago debacle.

In my opinion the coordinator definitely deserves blame if his players don't take the job seriously enough.
 
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In my opinion the coordinator definitely deserves blame if his players don't take the job seriously enough.
That is where I am at too. Nice guy, motivational, but probably a better assistant than the guy in charge. I can kind of understand how and why he was given the job. His bosses sucked (Zook and Mennenga), but he always stood out because he was that Rah Rah guy that all the players liked. MLF saw a real go getter, that the team loved and gave him the job.
 

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From Marc Eversol a few days ago - going to paraphrase:

- Drayton is a very dynamic, charismatic leader. After listening to him, I was ready to run through a brick wall. He is very detail oriented and is loved by his players. There was an issue that the players on the special teams didn't take it seriously enough. They were called out by veteran leaders after the Chicago debacle.


Personally, I am curious to see if they can pull this out of the gutter with no major changes, and just the criticism from veterans. For some reason, I like Drayton and hope we focus on adding a couple of ST aces next year. Certainly this has to be talked about at the Gute level. I trust him to correct the problem.
For me it seems like fans call for the head of the ST unit every couple of years and have done so for the better part of the last 2 decades.

This is a good find and I think it corresponds to the notion that the team does put little emphasis and focus on this unit in favor of offensive and defensive development. Not entirely unjustified given that we play two teams with top 5 ST in the last two weeks and won both games despite being severely short handed.

If the team treats STs as a dumping ground for developing players it makes sense that the unit might play with less commitment and focus.

Unless the team adjusts its approach I think any ST coach who manages a mediocre to average level of unit performance should be regarded as a good coach.
 
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For me it seems like fans call for the head of the ST unit every couple of years and have done so for the better part of the last 2 decades.

This is a good find and I think it corresponds to the notion that the team does put little emphasis and focus on this unit in favor of offensive and defensive development. Not entirely unjustified given that we play two teams with top 5 ST in the last two weeks and won both games despite being severely short handed.

If the team treats STs as a dumping ground for developing players it makes sense that the unit might play with less commitment and focus.

Unless the team adjusts its approach I think any ST coach who manages a mediocre to average level of unit performance should be regarded as a good coach.
I would buy this rationale, if Slocum, Zook or Mennega went to another team and showed just how good of coaches they were. I also don't see any correlation with top 10 teams having bad specials teams because they put more emphasis on developing the Offense and Defense. The notion that developmental players won't try as hard, is nonsense. I would actually think its quite the opposite, these are the guys who careers are hinging on what they do on Special Teams. I would guess that a guy like Davante Adams would be a ton more lacks if he was put on Special Teams. The last thing he wants to do in a big contract year is get hurt playing gunner.

I realize Drayton probably won't be fired at this point. Thus, I think MLF should take a lot of heat if things get worse. He hired him and probably should have fired him after last weeks game.
 

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If the team treats STs as a dumping ground for developing players it makes sense that the unit might play with less commitment and focus.
Players kept on the roster, not because some day they may be starters, but strictly for their ST prowess: Yiadom, Summers, Burks, EQ and M. Taylor. I don't believe ST is a "dumping ground" for developing players, it's a place for backups on rookie contracts to give the team some return on investment for 4 years.
 
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Players kept on the roster, not because some day they may be starters, but strictly for their ST prowess: Yiadom, Summers, Burks, EQ and M. Taylor. I don't believe ST is a "dumping ground" for developing players, it's a place for backups on rookie contracts to give the team some return on investment for 4 years.
That and as you pointed out, some veterans that are at the bottom of the Depth Chart are used on ST's. It is basically a mix of players that suit up for the game, but for the most part don't play that much on Offense or Defense, unless there is an injury during the game.
 

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Correct. If you aren't a starter then generally you play special teams. If you can't start on offense, defense, or special teams then they cut you. It's not a dumping ground. Special Team's coaches have always had to deal with the less-talented players, the guys that just arrived, etc. That is probably one of the few known truths in ST coaching.

ST coaches obviously need a good scheme, but the most important quality of a ST coach is to get the most out of the players they've got. Have a plan for how to plug & play with different chess pieces. Coach up the guy who is down about not being a starter at their skill position. Make sure that everybody knows their role, whether they've been on ST all season or just joined the team that week. It's really not that hard. It's about having a system flexible enough to deal with the roster fluctuations and coaching through those changes.

I just can't believe that I have watched back-to-back atrocious games by the Packers special teams. We absolutely will lose in the post-season due to this unit. They will play a role in our demise one way or another.
 

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Correct. If you aren't a starter then generally you play special teams. If you can't start on offense, defense, or special teams then they cut you. It's not a dumping ground. Special Team's coaches have always had to deal with the less-talented players, the guys that just arrived, etc. That is probably one of the few known truths in ST coaching.

ST coaches obviously need a good scheme, but the most important quality of a ST coach is to get the most out of the players they've got. Have a plan for how to plug & play with different chess pieces. Coach up the guy who is down about not being a starter at their skill position. Make sure that everybody knows their role, whether they've been on ST all season or just joined the team that week. It's really not that hard. It's about having a system flexible enough to deal with the roster fluctuations and coaching through those changes.

I just can't believe that I have watched back-to-back atrocious games by the Packers special teams. We absolutely will lose in the post-season due to this unit. They will play a role in our demise one way or another.
I agree with you until the last paragraph. For one thing, it has been more than just back to back games.
 
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This is a good find and I think it corresponds to the notion that the team does put little emphasis and focus on this unit in favor of offensive and defensive development. Not entirely unjustified given that we play two teams with top 5 ST in the last two weeks and won both games despite being severely short handed.

If the team treats STs as a dumping ground for developing players it makes sense that the unit might play with less commitment and focus.

Unless the team adjusts its approach I think any ST coach who manages a mediocre to average level of unit performance should be regarded as a good coach.

I don't believe other teams having better special team units put more emphasis on developing players for those units. In addition it seems to be a wrong assumption that playoff teams automatically have terrible special teams. At this point six of the top 10 teams in Football Outsiders' special teams DVOA are in a playoff spot.

Players kept on the roster, not because some day they may be starters, but strictly for their ST prowess: Yiadom, Summers, Burks, EQ and M. Taylor. I don't believe ST is a "dumping ground" for developing players, it's a place for backups on rookie contracts to give the team some return on investment for 4 years.

EQ has played more snaps on offense than on special teams though.
 

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I would buy this rationale, if Slocum, Zook or Mennega went to another team and showed just how good of coaches they were. I also don't see any correlation with top 10 teams having bad specials teams because they put more emphasis on developing the Offense and Defense. The notion that developmental players won't try as hard, is nonsense. I would actually think its quite the opposite, these are the guys who careers are hinging on what they do on Special Teams. I would guess that a guy like Davante Adams would be a ton more lacks if he was put on Special Teams. The last thing he wants to do in a big contract year is get hurt playing gunner.

I realize Drayton probably won't be fired at this point. Thus, I think MLF should take a lot of heat if things get worse. He hired him and probably should have fired him after last weeks game.

I don't think that a stint running the Packers ST unit is going to set anyone up for desirable job offers. Zook is a collegiate DC, Mennenga and Slocum are collegiate ST coaches.

As for developing players, how does the overall staff prioritize their practice snaps or for that matter the overall development of the player?

The question I keep coming down to is how does a team so frequently in the SB conversation, a perennial playoff team, manage to trot out such mediocre units year after year?
 

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EQ has played more snaps on offense than on special teams though.
Don't care how many snaps he's played in 2021, he's touched the ball 8 times in 14 games. He's not a guy they're grooming for a starting role at any point, IMHO, he's a ST guy forced into some game-day action. Summers has been active every game, has 9 total tackles on D, yet I don't believe anyone would argue he's being groomed for a starting (or significant) LB role.

EQ is a bottom-of-the-roster ST guy. He's a UFA in '22, might get a low-end contract offer to stick around GB to try to become a #4 guy but I'm not holding my breath that either happen.
 
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The question I keep coming down to is how does a team so frequently in the SB conversation, a perennial playoff team, manage to trot out such mediocre units year after year?
You answered this question with your first paragraph, they have had poor special teams coaching in my opinion. I think the second problem is that they haven't invested much, if anything, in a quality return man for punts or kickoffs.
 

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You answered this question with your first paragraph, they have had poor special teams coaching in my opinion. I think the second problem is that they haven't invested much, if anything, in a quality return man for punts or kickoffs.
Not for lack of trying, though. They've had guys back there that either work into the regular lineup (Cobb, Hyde, Tramon Williams), guys that had some collegiate experience that don't cut it (T. Davis, D. Shepherd, Ervin, T. Montgomery) or current M. Taylor & A. Rodgers who are ??

I laughed when the Bears spent a high 2nd rounder on Hester... but he became a weapon so I had to eat crow. I don't advocate Gute spending a high pick on a returner, but I'm not sold that the returner is the bulk of the problem.
 

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I think Amari was chosen to develop as a slot receiver and be our return man while he works into the offense for a couple years. He was a 3rd rounder. I’d say that’s an investment. It’s not working well, but it’s not like it’s ignored.

He was good enough at it in college, he looks pretty decent when he actually has the ball in his hands now. It’s just getting and keeping the ball there that’s the issue unfortunately lol
 

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