Fire Capers

[Sunshinepacker]

Agree with most of your post, however, Raji certainly was not below average.

Yes, yes he was. He started the season off well. He then proceeded to prove that the last couple of years were not anomalies. There were numerous plays in the Cardinals play where he was completely dominated by the Arizona guard. The lack of a run game for the Cardinals was due more to the safeties and linebackers with very little help from Raji.

 

[RRyder]

Yes, yes he was. He started the season off well. He then proceeded to prove that the last couple of years were not anomalies. There were numerous plays in the Cardinals play where he was completely dominated by the Arizona guard. The lack of a run game for the Cardinals was due more to the safeties and linebackers with very little help from Raji.

Yes there were plays that he got dominated by the best run blocking guard in football with center help. That's a far cry from below average as there were also plays he got some really good penitration. He started the season almost dominate and the regressed to solid to good the rest of the way. Not below average

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yes there were plays that he got dominated by the best run blocking guard in football with center help. That's a far cry from below average as there were also plays he got some really good penitration. He started the season almost dominate and the regressed to solid to good the rest of the way. Not below average

I consider "good" to be a NT that can make plays while occupying a double team while "dominant" would be a player that pretty much can't be stopped when they want to (ala Ngata in his prime). Perhaps you consider 8.5 tackles in the last 8 games of the season to be "good" but I'd call that pretty much invisible from a position that's intended to be the cornerstone of a 3-4 defense. Terrance Knighton, a disappointment this year in Washington, managed to get 10 tackles in his final 8 games and that guy can't move more than two feet in any given direction.

Now I will admit that 8.5 tackles in 8 games is far more production than the Packers have gotten from him in prior seasons but Raji was NOT good to end the season. He started well for a couple games and everyone got excited and just assumed he remained good because the NT position isn't an easy one to see make a ton of plays.

 

[Grave]

What in the name of all that is holy will it take for some of you to stop giving Capers a free pass?

2015 - The Packers are knocked out of the playoffs in overtime while the defense is on the field because of possibly the most ridiculous blown coverage and poorest tackling on one play in the history of the NFL.

2014 - The Packers knocked out of the playoffs in overtime on two plays while the defense is on the field.

2013 - The Packers are knocked out of the playoffs while the defense is on the field with no time remaining on the clock

2012 - The Packers are knocked out of the playoffs when the offense puts up 31 points but the defense can't stop one of the worst QB's in the NFL from running for 181 yards and 2 TD's

2011 - The Packers are knocked out of the playoffs because the offense sucked in one game and one of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL gave up 37 points to a team that only averaged 22 pts a game all year.

2010 - The only thing that any of you have to hang your hats on, by some miracle the Packers defense was awesome and we won a Super Bowl

2009 - The Packers lose while scoring 45 points, wait a second, read that again, the Packers lose while scoring 45 points because the defense gave up 51 points.

Seriously, how can any of you think Dom Capers should be the coach of the defense? In the last 7 years of the playoffs, 6 of those years the Packers were bounced out of the playoffs because the defense was either horrible all game long or in the case of the past 3 years, horrible when the game was on the line.

You can blame players being out of position, poor tackling, missed assignments all you want (by the way whose job is it to make sure the defense does not tackle poorly, blow coverage or miss an assignment?) but the bottom line is other than one shining glorious year the defense has failed, over and over again, sometimes in historic fashion.

All of the crap of it being blamed on player execution falls on the shoulders of one person, the coach who is supposed to coach the players so that stuff does not happen. The defense has and apparently always will be the Achilles heel of this team because they absolutely NEVER come through in crunch time. And before anyone says that both this year and last year the defense played great for most of the game, it does not matter when you play some of the worst defense known to man in the final losing minutes of the game. It literally means nothing.

Exactly!

 

[Grave]

I completely agree Carl. Trust me When I say we've all been there completely PO'd when we got shredded week in week out. We had a D pass ranking at the bottom feeding range a few years Ago.
But the last 2 years in particular our D has improved markedly. So much so that if our Offense was its usual self and stopped playing like a 15-25 ranked Offense, we'd be talking about us vs Carolina for another NFC crown.
IMO the D should've never have had play in OT. Our D held arguably The best Offense on the the league on the road twice to 24pts and 20pts respectively in regulation. That is a phenomenal feat and gave our Offense every chance to redeem themselves for inconsistent at best play since the bye.

D held playing man-to-man. So who switched to the zones the players are clueless in? And WHY does he keep getting away with it?

 

[Grave]

Slocum was fired last offseason and Clements lost his play calling duties during the year. It's a stretch to say there is no coach accountability.

Slocum never should have been hired. Clements was not at fault but was sacrificed for Campen's continuing incompetence and the failure of teaching receivers how to run routes.

 

[Grave]

You mean the second half where the defense gave up 13 points on the road to the best offense in the NFL? The second half where the defense got the ball right back after Rodgers threw an interception? I would LOVE to see what a coordinator who wanted to keep his job would do.

You should have watched the entire game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

D held playing man-to-man. So who switched to the zones the players are clueless in? And WHY does he keep getting away with it?

I guess you're talking about the first play of overtime vs. the Cardinals. It was Randall's job to play man coverage on Fitzgerald but he screwed up, nothing Capers can do about it.

 

[Half Empty]

I guess you're talking about the first play of overtime vs. the Cardinals. It was Randall's job to play man coverage on Fitzgerald but he screwed up, nothing Capers can do about it.

I understand what you're saying, but this gets back to the question what a coach's responsibilities really are. Sure, he can't actually get out there, but he can make sure all his players are on the same page, perhaps point out the one guy on the other team that can't be overlooked, prepare for a specific opponent in lieu of general assignments, play to his unit's stengths, et. al. I have absolutely no idea how much any of that could have affected Randall on that particular play, but "nothing" is a pretty strong term.

 

[PackerDNA]

If you've got people ******** up assignments at the end of a season- some people with more than one season in the system- maybe you've got stupid people.

 

[Half Empty]

If you've got people ******** up assignments at the end of a season- some people with more than one season in the system- maybe you've got stupid people.

Then, my question again, would be why are those dumb people playing at all, particularly in a scheme where they need to be smart? Of course, that assumes talking about an unknown quantity - this was Randall, and I think you'd have a hard time getting anyone to agree that he was pretty good, certainly with better than 'jock' smarts.

 

[PackerDNA]

As to Randall, this is one of the problems with having so much youth on the field, but he'll be fine. To the point, the constant issue with blown assignments and miscommunication, after a while, brings intelligence into the equation.
If that's the case, then TT and MM would best answer why are there so many stupid people on the field.

 

[Poppa San]

As to Randall, this is one of the problems with having so much youth on the field, but he'll be fine. To the point, the constant issue with blown assignments and miscommunication, after a while, brings intelligence into the equation.
If that's the case, then TT and MM would best answer why are there so many stupid people on the field.

Problem with blaming youth is GB is always one of the youngest teams so this issue of blown assignments because of it is ongoing.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I understand what you're saying, but this gets back to the question what a coach's responsibilities really are. Sure, he can't actually get out there, but he can make sure all his players are on the same page, perhaps point out the one guy on the other team that can't be overlooked, prepare for a specific opponent in lieu of general assignments, play to his unit's stengths, et. al. I have absolutely no idea how much any of that could have affected Randall on that particular play, but "nothing" is a pretty strong term.

The players are responsible for knowing the playbook. It's obvious Randall didn't know the defensive alignment on that one, which I solely blame on him.

 

[Forderick]

The players are responsible for knowing the playbook. It's obvious Randall didn't know the defensive alignment on that one, which I solely blame on him.

I agree but if this system is too complicated for young players, then why would you employ this system when this team is consistently one of the youngest in the league year in and year out, therefore making the system not work at crucial times.

This might be a coaching problem, but its more of a building team philosophy. If Capers needs smarter older vets to run his system properly then TT needs to do that or find a different DC to be able to run his system with the young group. Logic would dictate you acquire players to fit the system. Am I wrong?

 

[Mondio]

You can point to young and old, all pro's and those pulled from the scrap heap all across this league. On super bowl teams and 1 win losers that have blown a coverage, a block, a pass, a read, a whatever. Sometimes they cost you, sometimes they don't. Randall had a good year, no matter his veteran status, as a DB this year. He had an outstanding year as a rookie. He had a missed assignment in a big game. I can pretty much guarantee that even Sir Charles himself has had missed assignments throughout his career. By and large our defense played well that day, and certainly well enough to win that game. If Sam Shields isn't out of game action for a month, he probably is able to adjust to the ball better in the air and we're not having any conversation except for how we're going to match up against Carolina.

 

[TJV]

[Caution this post is too optimistic for the "Sky is falling" poster] The good news going into next season is we can realistically expect better play from the secondary.

If everything goes as planned next season, the Green Bay Packers won't be playing any rookies in their secondary. They shouldn't need to. The Packers have a chance to be as impervious as any defense can hope to the high-octane, receiver-based offenses they seem to face on a weekly basis. The operative word is "chance," …

That quote is from a jsonline article titled, “Experience puts Packers secondary in position to shine” http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...-position-to-shine-b99656728z1-366271501.html

Thompson had to replace Tramon and House going into this season and I think he struck gold with the rookie replacements but Randall's inexperience obviously cost them at Arizona. The good news is I think the secondary is set going into next season.[/caution]

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree but if this system is too complicated for young players, then why would you employ this system when this team is consistently one of the youngest in the league year in and year out, therefore making the system not work at crucial times.

This might be a coaching problem, but its more of a building team philosophy. If Capers needs smarter older vets to run his system properly then TT needs to do that or find a different DC to be able to run his system with the young group. Logic would dictate you acquire players to fit the system. Am I wrong?

There's no doubt that Thompson's draft and develop philosophy and Capers' complicated defensive scheme aren't a perfect fit. There were reports that TT started to draft players better suited for the DC's system and the scheme was simplified which resulted in the defense playing better. There's hope the unit is headed in the right direction.

 

[Carl]

D held playing man-to-man. So who switched to the zones the players are clueless in? And WHY does he keep getting away with it?

His second half play calling leads to two more INTs if Shields hangs onto the ball. As another poster said above too, it was man to man on the OT catch.

Simply calling man does not mean the play will work.

WHY do fans keep ignoring that players make mistakes too?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You should have watched the entire game.

As should you

 

[Half Empty]

It took two days to come up with that?

 

[adambr2]

Yes there were plays that he got dominated by the best run blocking guard in football with center help. That's a far cry from below average as there were also plays he got some really good penitration. He started the season almost dominate and the regressed to solid to good the rest of the way. Not below average

All starting NTs for teams that run a 3-4 defense in 2015, as listed on their respective team's depth charts:

Danny Shelton: 36 tackles, 0 sacks

Ryan Carrethers: 23 tackles, 0 sacks (did not become starter til later in the season)

Brandon Williams: 53 tackles, 2 sacks

Rodney Gunter: 19 tackles, 1 sack

David Parry: 31 tackles, 1 sack

Jaye Howard: 57 tackles, 5.5 sacks

Damon Harrison: 72 tackles, 1 sack

Ian Williams: 45 tackles, 1 sack

Steve McLendon: 14 tackles, 1 sack

Terrance Knighton: 29 tackles, 1.5 sacks

Sylvester Williams: 24 tackles, 2.5 sacks

Bennie Logan: 55 tackles, 1 sack

BJ Raji: 22 tackles, 0.5 sacks

Al Woods: 22 tackles, 0 sacks

Vince Wilfork: 22 tackles, 0 sacks

Please explain how Raji does not rate 'below average' among his peers. Actually, please explain how Raji doesn't rank significantly lower than below average among his peers. Please don't use the old argument about double teams preventing him from making more plays. Raji does not receive any more attention in regard to blocking than any other typical 3-4 NT.

He's going to be 30 and again not coming off a great season in another contract year. How many more years are we going to continue to make excuses for the guy?

Let someone else pay for him.

 

[Mondio]

i don't think you give the guy 7 million a year, but I'd bring him back for 1 or 2

 

[adambr2]

i don't think you give the guy 7 million a year, but I'd bring him back for 1 or 2

Can't argue with that amount to fill the position, but I think the point of hoping for 'more' from Raji is gone. He is who he is. The older he gets the less likely it is that he'll ever resemble his Super Bowl year form.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

All starting NTs for teams that run a 3-4 defense in 2015, as listed on their respective team's depth charts:

Danny Shelton: 36 tackles, 0 sacks

Ryan Carrethers: 23 tackles, 0 sacks (did not become starter til later in the season)

Brandon Williams: 53 tackles, 2 sacks

Rodney Gunter: 19 tackles, 1 sack

David Parry: 31 tackles, 1 sack

Jaye Howard: 57 tackles, 5.5 sacks

Damon Harrison: 72 tackles, 1 sack

Ian Williams: 45 tackles, 1 sack

Steve McLendon: 14 tackles, 1 sack

Terrance Knighton: 29 tackles, 1.5 sacks

Sylvester Williams: 24 tackles, 2.5 sacks

Bennie Logan: 55 tackles, 1 sack

BJ Raji: 22 tackles, 0.5 sacks

Al Woods: 22 tackles, 0 sacks

Vince Wilfork: 22 tackles, 0 sacks

Please explain how Raji does not rate 'below average' among his peers. Actually, please explain how Raji doesn't rank significantly lower than below average among his peers. Please don't use the old argument about double teams preventing him from making more plays. Raji does not receive any more attention in regard to blocking than any other typical 3-4 NT.

He's going to be 30 and again not coming off a great season in another contract year. How many more years are we going to continue to make excuses for the guy?

Let someone else pay for him.

IMO the total number of tackles and sacks aren´t the best metric to measure a nose tackle´s performance. As another poster suggested I would be fine with bringing him back for a moderate, short-term contract but would for sure not overpay for him.