1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Dynasties.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Packerlifer, Nov 27, 2014.

  1. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,755
    Ratings:
    +515
    There's another angle to this week's Packers-Patriots game besides a meeting of playoff-bound teams, with a combined 17-5 record, the two best quarterbacks in the league , and a possible preview of next February's Super Bowl match-up. Over the past 20 years the Packers and Patriots have been the two most successful and consistent clubs in the National Football League.

    It's sometimes said that the NFL doesn't have dynasties anymore, or that they're not like they used to be. In terms of concentration of championships like the Packers did in the 1960's, the Steelers in the '70's or the Cowboys in the '90's that may be so. But by a different calculation and definition the Packers and Patriots of the past two decades should qualify.

    Each has made the playoffs 15 times over the past 20 years. They have combined for 9 Super Bowl appearances and 5 Super Bowl Championships. In an era where half or more of the teams that make the playoffs one season can't do it the next, Green Bay and New England are the only two teams to have been in the playoffs every season since 2009. And they have similar streaks before. The Packers were in the playoffs 6 straight years from 1993-98 and four from 2001-04. The Patriots had a 5 year string from 2003-07.

    Each club has had only 2 losing seasons in the last 21 and 3 at .500. The rest have all been winners. The Patriots have compiled a regular season record of 229-103 and the Packers 205-123-1 since 1994.

    New England has been credited more with the "dynasty" label due to the exceptional record they have achieved with coach Bill Belichick and qb Tom Brady during the past 14 years. In part because they are in the bigger Eastern market but also because they have done better than Green Bay in the playoffs and championship games.

    The Patriots have won 3 Super Bowls and played in 5, the Packers only 1 since 2001. In addition the Pats have at least reached their conference championship game 3 additional times, the Pack only one during that same period. Overall New England is 21-12 in postseason, Green Bay 15-13.

    But that's been the only real separation between these two clubs. They've met head to head 6 times over this period and are tied at 3-3 in the results of direct competiton. The biggest game between them, of course, was Super Bowl XXXI in New Orleans in Jan. 1997. The Packers won that one 35-21. The Packers followed that up with a pair of 28-10 wins in 1997 and 2002. Both those games were at Foxboro and the latter was in the season when the Patriots were defending their first Super Bowl Championship.

    The Patriots humiliated the Packers 35-0 in 2006 at Lambeau Field. But that was Mike McCarthy's first year as Packers' coach and the club was trying to rebuild after a 4-12 season in '05. When they met again in New England in 2010 the Packers lost a close decision 31-27. New England edged Green Bay in another game in Foxboro 17-16 in 1994.

    These two clubs have won consistently under a succession of head coaches. Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick for the Pats. Mike Holmgren, Mike Sherman, Mike McCarthy in Green Bay. They've performed the near impossible with an unbroken succession of great quarterbacks. Drew Bledsoe followed by Tom Brady. Brett Favre succeeded by Aaron Rodgers. But in emergency situations have also found Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel to bail the team out when the all-pro starter was injured.

    These two franchies have generously seeded the NFL or big time college football with coaches drawn from their assistant staffs. Andy Reid, Joe Philbin, Jon Gruden, Steve Mariucci, Romeo Crennell, Eric Mangini, Josh McDaniel, Charlie Weis, Nick Saban are some of the more prominent of many examples.

    Other NFL clubs have drawn on the experience and talents of Green Bay and New England front office personnel, especially in the area of player scouting and development, in hopes of achieving what the Packers and Patriots have done. John Schneider, Reggie McKenzie, Thomas Dimitroff, Scott Pioli are prime examples of the competition trying to get them to join them since they can't beat them.

    But while this week's game may focus on the coaches, quarterbacks and players of these two dynasty teams the men who really made these clubs what they are and have been for the past 20 years are at the top of the two organizations. For the Patriots that's owner Bob Kraft and for the Packers former club president and ceo Bob Harlan.

    Before Kraft took ownership of the Patriots and Harlan rose to lead the Packers both clubs were also-ran mediocrities. The Patriots were in real danger of being relocated to St.Louis. It was said the Pack would never return to glory.

    Harlan and Kraft hired the coaches, the general managers Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson, who in turn got the players that turned these franchises around and never let them look back. Organizational soundness and consistency, starting with the men at the top are the foundation of these two long running dynasties.

    They hired the best football people and had the good sense to let them do their jobs and stay out of the way. Something the Jerry Joneses, Al Davises, and Daniel Snyders haven't learned. But they did step in decisively when a situation threatened the stability and functioning of the club. Harlan moved to replace Mike Sherman as GM with Ted Thompson in 2005 and a couple of years later came out of retirement when his planned successor John Jones didn't work out and helped land Mark Murphy to be club president. Kraft had to take some decisive actions when the coaching situations with Parcells and Carroll went south.

    So while the spotlight this weekend will be on Belichick and McCarthy, Rodgers and Brady and so many other angles of this game we shouldn't forget the men out of the limelight who made these clubs what they are and have been for so long. Mr. Harlan and Mr. Kraft. There's two lessons people who want to be successful can learn from.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. searmh

    searmh Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Ratings:
    +16
    brilliant read, very interesting and informative...many thanks and well written
     
  3. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,755
    Ratings:
    +515
    I hope the media will pay some attention to Bob Harlan and Bob Kraft and maybe get a shot of them together at Lambeau this weekend.
     
  4. PWT

    PWT Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    255
    Ratings:
    +64
    Packerlifer posted;

    Quote: Harlan moved to replace Mike Sherman as GM with Ted Thompson in 2005 and a couple of years later came out of retirement when his planned successor John Jones didn't work out and helped land Mark Murphy to be club president. unquote.

    Bob Harlan decided not to assist the Packer Executive Committee in choosing his successor .The Packer Executive committee made a decision to hire a Employment consulting firm , which specialize if finding candidates for Executive positions for major league sports teams. .

    This firm gave the Packer executive committee a list of potential candidates. The Packer Executive Committee
    chose a number of candidates from this list to interview. The Packer Executive Committee chose Mark Murphy to be Packer President and CEO from the list of candidates that were interviewed

    This is the first time in Packer history , that The Packer Executive Committee chose a Packer President who did not hold position with the Green Bay Packer organization.
     
  5. toolkien

    toolkien Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Ratings:
    +71
    As a counterpoint, the Packers and Patriots don't compare to the dynasties of the 60's-80's, but that doesn't mean they haven't been the two best teams in the league over the last 2 decades-plus. It simply means that salary cap/free agency has done away with most of the "titanic" teams that once existed that could even produce a dynasty (the team that met and beat the other "titanic" teams and beat them with regularity). The titanic teams were teams that were very good to great on both sides of the ball for the better part of a decade. Only the Patriots fall within that definition since the mid-90's. The Packers, Colts, Broncos, Steelers, 49ers, Eagles don't fall into that definition. Too skewed most of the time, and any balanced and potent time frames didn't last too long.

    In short, we've had (or should have) readjusted the semantics and accept that dynasties don't exist anymore. Even titanic teams don't exist anymore, for the large part. It's apparently the way the owners and players want it. And the fans. The only team that might qualify as titanic has been the Patriots, and they haven't had to go up against other titanic teams (Eagles, Rams, Giants, and Panthers weren't much of an obstacle course), so if one tries to call them a dynasty in the classic sense, it's cheaply bought.

    But none of this means that the Packers and Patriots haven't been the two best teams in the league since about 1992. Followed closely by the Colts, Broncos, and Steelers. It's just that the NFL decided to sheer off the top end of the curve that had once existed. Where once there had been the Packers of the 60's, Steelers of the 70's, or 49ers of the 80's, and the titanic teams that went with them, we now have an NFL that tends to peak at teams like the 80's Chargers. It might not be such a bad thing to sheer off the top of the curve, but - unfortunately - the NFL still produces dreadful teams like they used to, so we now have a bottom heavy NFL as far as distribution.

    We Packer fans should enjoy what we've had in this modern NFL. And, hopefully, those who have gritted their teeth and lamented that the modern Packers never seemed to rank with the dynasties of yore, it's not a failure, but simply a reality of the modern NFL. Enjoy the Packers for what they are relative to the modern reality - one of the best teams going for two decades.
     
  6. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    8,162
    Ratings:
    +2,798
    In my book a team that cheats cannot be considered a dynasty.
    Only those that won fair and square are.
    And what about the fan base?
    Hands down the Packers have the best fans in football.

    Frankly, I don't know why a Packers fan would want to be in awe of any other team and give praise to them.
     
  7. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,761
    Ratings:
    +661
    Don't know if it was elsewhere in this thread, but come on, it's time to forget about the cheating. What did they do, how much did they benefit, how long ago was it, and who do you think wouldn't have done the same? Where is anyone in awe of the Pats? Many folks acknowledge that they're a very good football team and could well beat the Pack this Sunday. Praise is deserved if earned. Plus, I and most Packer fans were in awe of just about everybody from the end of SBII until Favre. Other than that, I concur. :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Zeck180

    Zeck180 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    471
    Ratings:
    +173
    Well that rules out every super bowl winner when stickum was still legal to use.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,761
    Ratings:
    +661
    Not sure how using something that is legal qualifies, but certainly any team that knowingly used PEDs, taught their OL/DB to hold without getting caught, and who knows how many other 'tweaks' to the rules.
     

Share This Page