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Play action only ever works if you're going to run in that situation and be successful. It's why with an in shape Eddie and Jordy, it was such a deadly combo. We could pound it in there for a new set of downs, or play action and hit over the top and defenses had to honor both.

If i'm playing a team that is never willing to run on 2nd and 1 halfway thru the season and can't convert. I don't give a crap about their play action look because it's just wasted motion. Play action works because of a legitimate action they've seen on tape.

Actually the Packers have had success running the ball in those situations this season, converting eight out of nine tries. On the other hand the team has only one first down on five tries with Rodgers dropping back to pass.

That won't change fans complaining about it once it doesn't work though.
 

swhitset

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I know people want to complain about the 2nd and 1 and not going for play action, but sometimes you have to run that AND make it. you need to show teams you #1 are willing to do it in that situation regardless of the defensive front, and #2 you have to show them you can do it. If you don't, play action is just a set of motions teams don't really believe.

one of the biggest plays for this offense of the entire game was running in to the endzone, a tough run and did it anyway. They need to start doing that and keep doing it to make other teams worry about it. Otherwise it's all just for show. You must do those things when they matter to open everything else up. Play action is pointless on 2nd and 1 or 2 if we can never convert on 2nd and 1 by running.
I totally understand your point ... but it’s not my complaint. I agree that we need to actually run the ball on short yardage “to go” situations. I would like to see us get much better at it.. If we have 1 yard to go I want to assume our offensive line and running back can get that yard... But not on second down. I don’t even care if play action is used at all on second down... I want to be confident enough in the team that we can take an obvious shot down field ... knowing that if it’s incomplete... we will get that yard on 3rd down.
 
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I totally understand your point ... but it’s not my complaint. I agree that we need to actually run the ball on short yardage “to go” situations. I would like to see us get much better at it.. If we have 1 yard to go I want to assume our offensive line and running back can get that yard... But not on second down. I don’t even care if play action is used at all on second down... I want to be confident enough in the team that we can take an obvious shot down field ... knowing that if it’s incomplete... we will get that yard on 3rd down.

The Packers have had success running the ball on second-and-1 this season. Unfortunately they haven't been as efficient on third and fourth downs though.
 
D

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Ok... not my point ... but ok.

Well, I have pointed out that the Packers are more successful running the ball on second-and-1 than throwing it. Therefore fans complaining about McCarthy calling a run play instead of taking a shot downfield doesn't seem to be a valid one.
 

Mondio

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I totally understand your point ... but it’s not my complaint. I agree that we need to actually run the ball on short yardage “to go” situations. I would like to see us get much better at it.. If we have 1 yard to go I want to assume our offensive line and running back can get that yard... But not on second down. I don’t even care if play action is used at all on second down... I want to be confident enough in the team that we can take an obvious shot down field ... knowing that if it’s incomplete... we will get that yard on 3rd down.
Either way is fine. With Rodgers as your QB, passing on any down is likely no matter the down or distance :) IMO, if you can run and get those yards, play action becomes relevant on any down if we choose to use it. Run twice, throw twice, run throw, throw run, just get a new set of downs :)
 

swhitset

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Well, I have pointed out that the Packers are more successful running the ball on second-and-1 than throwing it. Therefore fans complaining about McCarthy calling a run play instead of taking a shot downfield doesn't seem to be a valid one.
Stats don’t win every point sorry. The whole point of this argument is that it is a time where you can take a chance at a LOW PERCENTAGE high yield play. Of course most of them will be unsuccessful.... it’s called gambling. The point is doing it on 2nd and short still allows you to recover and get that first down on 3rd down. You can throw all the stats you want at this. It’s an opinion not something you can say is right or wrong. It’s just something i’d like to see more of.
 
D

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Stats don’t win every point sorry. The whole point of this argument is that it is a time where you can take a chance at a LOW PERCENTAGE high yield play. Of course most of them will be unsuccessful.... it’s called gambling. The point is doing it on 2nd and short still allows you to recover and get that first down on 3rd down. You can throw all the stats you want at this. It’s an opinion not something you can say is right or wrong. It’s just something i’d like to see more of.

Yeah, makes sense to ignore facts when they don't fit your narrative.
 

Arod2gjdd

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Side note: is EQ only allowed to run like 0-5 yard outs? I'm so sick of these plays that have minimal chance to yield significant gains. Where are the slants? Crossers? What is the problem? Can we run actual short/intermediate routes instead of this horizontal BS
 
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Mavster

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Side note: is EQ only allowed to run like 0-5 yard outs? I'm so sick of these plays that have minimal chance to yield significant gains. Slants? Crossers? What is the problem? Can we run actual short/intermediate routes instead of this horizontal BS

It's a pass to the sideline or it's a pass out of bounds. I don't have any stats to back this up but it truly feels like we hardly ever use the middle of the field
 

Arod2gjdd

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It's a pass to the sideline or it's a pass out of bounds. I don't have any stats to back this up but it truly feels like we hardly ever use the middle of the field

Seriously! Maybe like a seam route with Graham or Lewis? They are trying to be too cute or something
 
D

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How about when those facts ignore the narrative?

Why did you delete your eloquent post about my ability to read???

Once again, it's tough to have a meaningful discussion when facts are being ignored because you want something based on your likings.
 
D

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It's a pass to the sideline or it's a pass out of bounds. I don't have any stats to back this up but it truly feels like we hardly ever use the middle of the field

It's true that Rodgers doesn't throw as much tonthe middle of the field as in past seasons.
 

swhitset

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Why did you delete your eloquent post about my ability to read???

Once again, it's tough to have a meaningful discussion when facts are being ignored because you want something based on your likings.
Clearly I deleted it because I decided it was beneath me... however the only person ignoring things is you. You have posted no facts that refute my point. I addressed that fact when I stated the whole point of my “narrative” is that 2nd and short is a chance at a low percentage high yield play. Your “facts” do nothing but confirm the obvious. I appreciate having you in this forum... because of your ability and willingness to do the work to bring up the necessary background statistics, but your interpretation is not always the correct one. You can be like a dog with a bone... and I do not care at this point what you do with it. I’m done answering. I made the point I wanted to make, and do not care whether or not you agree with it.
 
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Mondio

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It's true that Rodgers doesn't throw as much tonthe middle of the field as in past seasons.
I think part of that is his physical status, as well as the younger guys. Those passes are more dangerous and very much on timing. So are the out passes and back shoulder etc, but I think the middle routes are more so because of all the bodies that could be there. So he doesn't trust them as much yet. 2nd part is him. I think because of that knee, he was floating passes he used to drill. I think they all knew it. MM and Rodgers a like. We see it and think, why don't they use it. I've thought it too and said so early this year that we're avoiding the middle. I think it's why we saw more than usual thrown in front and in the dirt by Rodgers this year than in any I can remember of his. He's trying to be too careful at times instead of just trusting his throws. Though I saw a couple this game that were vintage Rodgers. Flick that wrist and drive it. that TD to Adams was great. Dart, right there, BAM.

my guess is physically and then mentally he wasn't very sharp there and they decided it's not a great place to attack. Because we've seen it before. The middle of the field isn't something MM and philbin have forgotten exists and we know Rodgers can drill those. As the young guys prove themselves and Rodgers gets more back to his old self, I think the middle starts to get attacked again.
 

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studs: everyone on the D, Aaron Jones, O-line.
duds: no one
meh: scott (has been flirting with getting a punt blocked all season and it finally happened), Rodgers (hot and cold as usual, not throwing short to open guys), MM (for some of his play calling as usual). if i see another wr screen type play go for 2 yards i'm going to throw up.
 

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if i see another wr screen type play go for 2 yards i'm going to throw up.

Agreed. Reminds me of The Badgers. They keep running the Jet Sweep to the short side of the field and it just doesn't work.

I could be wrong on this and would have to go back and look at all the times we attempt this play, but it seems that it works for other teams, when the CB (s) are playing 10+ yards off the line of scrimmage from the WR. When it fails is when the CB is playing right on the LOS, which seems most teams play against the Packers. Again, this is just my gut memory, I could be wrong and everyone is playing our WR's with a big cushion pre-snap.
 

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Agreed. Reminds me of The Badgers. They keep running the Jet Sweep to the short side of the field and it just doesn't work.

I could be wrong on this and would have to go back and look at all the times we attempt this play, but it seems that it works for other teams, when the CB (s) are playing 10+ yards off the line of scrimmage from the WR. When it fails is when the CB is playing right on the LOS, which seems most teams play against the Packers. Again, this is just my gut memory, I could be wrong and everyone is playing our WR's with a big cushion pre-snap.
it works for other teams because they don't try it 6 times a game. it used to work for us too...when we ran slants.
 

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The offensive line deserves a lot of credit for how well they blocked the run. Corey Linsley in particular was excellent. He's having a great season.

Raven Greene had an interesting debut. Time will tell if they have something there. He's a pretty good athlete who played extremely well in college-- he was an UDFA largely because of the FCS level of competition.

Kyler Fackrell is showing himself to be a serviceable NFL rotational player. A lot of credit to Pettine on that.

Overall, I'm not getting too excited about a home win against a bad Dolphins team led by Brock Osweiler. A win @SEA on a short week would do a lot more to raise my opinion of McCarthy's Packers.
 

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As far as the 2nd and one play action...I really only want a 10 to 15 yard play. I don't like going way downfield just because we have a down, unless someone is obviously wide open. Really, the same with a free play for me. Get the 10 to 15...not chopped liver. And that is kind of a problem. You do still want to get the first down.
 

gopkrs

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The offensive line deserves a lot of credit for how well they blocked the run. Corey Linsley in particular was excellent. He's having a great season.

Raven Greene had an interesting debut. Time will tell if they have something there. He's a pretty good athlete who played extremely well in college-- he was an UDFA largely because of the FCS level of competition.

Kyler Fackrell is showing himself to be a serviceable NFL rotational player. A lot of credit to Pettine on that.

Overall, I'm not getting too excited about a home win against a bad Dolphins team led by Brock Osweiler. A win @SEA on a short week would do a lot more to raise my opinion of McCarthy's Packers.
Not sure about Linsley but there were some holes. That inside spin move by Fackrell was XLNT.
 

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I think that was our first attempted fake punt or FG since Crabtree’s touchdown run like 11 yrs ago haha
That was easily the biggest gamble I’ve ever seen from an NFL coach. 4th and goal from the 26. A TD is the only successful outcome on that play. Wow.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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That was easily the biggest gamble I’ve ever seen from an NFL coach. 4th and goal from the 26. A TD is the only successful outcome on that play. Wow.

I forgot the circumstances behind that call (it was actually 4th and 26 from the 27), but thanks for reminding me of the play. You are right, that was one Ballsy call! Also, possibly Don Barclay's best block of his NFL career!

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