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Dispelling a rampant fallacy on this board....

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by P@ck66, Jan 11, 2006.

  1. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    It has been suggested, and from not just a few....that TT wants to push Brett Favre out the door because he would interfere with his "longrange plans" in rebuilding the Green Bay Packers....

    The argument goes something like this.....

    "If Brett Favre sticks around for 2-3 years while this team is rebuilding, then it will ruin the development of Aaron Rodgers when TT himself is in his contract year, and TT's future will depend on a QB that has not had time to develop on the field...therefore TT will be fired..."

    BULL COOKIES..I SAY....!!

    (What would ingratiate Green Bay fans to TT quicker then the second coming of the Great Lombardi himself..????)

    JUST THIS...if TT brought Brett Favre and the GB Packers back to greatness ala John Elway and the Denver Broncos...so Favre could ride out of town with all the records and a few more championships....that's what would do it! Hell yeah....

    (Then..they'd build a statue to TT in downtown GB...and he would be able to write his own ticket for the next few years as Rodgers..or whomever...developed....!)

    I'm not saying this is TT's thinking right now...but it should be...!!!
     
  2. CalifPacker

    CalifPacker Cheesehead

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    I agree with that.
     
  3. Ryan

    Ryan Cheesehead

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    P@ck66, normally I read your posts with the when will "I hate sherman" or "brett favre is untouchable" flavor poke it's head, however this was a good post.

    1. Good point that it would ingrain him into the organization if he had the second coming of Favre.

    2.
    I love this phrase, and I absolutely appreciate you going into profanity or calling people out etc. Thank you.
     
  4. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

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    Hey 66 good one, I think TT should do as you say, try to build a team around Brett and try to get a SB run right away.... IMHO we are not that far from there with old #4 on the field..

    Happy New Year Packer Friends!!!!!

    Goooooooooooooooo Pack Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
     
  5. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    How would you feel if you were in TT's shoes? Brett's not getting any younger, Elway is the only other qb older than Brett's current age to lead a team to a super bowl, and we've had this edge of your seat, year by year retirement talk for 3 years now...Brett could pack his bags tomorrow for all we know. Would you want to structure your team around that uncertainty?

    Brett needs to provide TT with some sort of a timetable before TT can commit to Brett.
     
  6. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    66, even if Brett comes back next year, don't look for the Pack to be the leading contenders in getting to a Superbowl. The team is going to have to adjust to the new HC's plays. That takes time. It could in fact take up to a year for players to feel comfortable in the new scheme.

    And lets face it, there is a very poor track record for first year coaches taking their team to the Superbowl. Even if Favre comes back for 2 more years, it is unlikly that he will get another oppertunity to play in the Superbowl. Look, I want Brett to go out on top just like everyone else. If anyone has deserved it, it is Favre. But the fact is to expect a new coach to come in and have instant success is wishful thinking. It will take time for the Packers to be a bonafide Superbowl team once again. And time is not on Brett Favre's side.
     
  7. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    To quote a true genius even if he does have to say so himself:
    (easy there..P@ck...before you know it...we'll be best buds..)

    Good post P@ck.
     
  8. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    A) I agree in part that Brett's skills have not diminished. At least not too much. He may only throw the ball 58 yards instead of 68 but the velocity is still great and throws that long are needed in only desperate circustances. If anyone can supply evidence of diminshed QB skill I'm willing to listen(INT numbers however are not that evidence).

    B) He is a valuable QB and His contract is no longer as expensive as Carson Palmer's, Vick's, Mannings etc. They are now approaching 15 million a year(Palmer gets over 45 million over next 3 years). Brett will earn about 10 million and count over 11 million against the cap.

    So his contract is not too big it is market value.

    C) There is a poorly articulated "He isn't a winner anymore." "I hate to see him play on a poor team." reasoning which ultimately is a matter of aesthetics and history.

    People want to remember the happy winning Brett and not the frustrated Brett telling Ferguson to play with desire.

    D) Then there is the "time to move on argument". It is the Vikings point. The NFL, the fans, the media, love Brett. If you want to sell air time discuss Brett Favre because people will listen. Opponents fans are tired of seeing Brett healthy and playing hard every week.

    Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens want attention all the time. Brett attempts to avoid it but remains polite to the press and his opponents. Some just don't want to hear one more Brett Favre story. Call it media overexposure.

    Little can be done about that. Maybe his better half do some of them. Perhaps he can drop his Sunday postgame and just do the Wednesday one. Tough to blame Brett on this one.


    The motivations of those who want Brett gone have to be examined. If it is an alleged Packer fan it usually is C. If not a Packer fan it is D.
    B and A are red herrings attempting to support their other reason.
     
  9. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    Nobody else in any sport has to go to management and say, "I want to play for 1 or 5 years.", if he is under contract. The last time I checked Brett still has a valid contract. It is up to TT to assume that Brett will be back unless Brett calls him up and tells him that he is thru. If this is the case hopefully Brett would not pull a Ricky Williams on him and tell him after the draft is over or just days before camp starts.
     
  10. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    but nobody else in sports has let this retirement talk float around so much...the media has inflated the retirement talk, but Brett has done NOTHING but increase the confussion...saying he doesn't know when he'll retire, and repeating year after year that he was convinced he was going to retire after last year's final game is not a standard operating procedure

    Brett needs to step up here too and give the organization some clue of what they're working with....but to be honest, IMO, I think Brett is set on retiring.
     
  11. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    wpr, that shouldn't be the case. Brett has said that he will not wait as long as last time to make his decision. I think around mid Feb. is when we can all expect to hear something.
     
  12. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    CC,
    I understand what you are saying and I agree in part with it.
    HOWEVER, Ints can be due to deminished skills. If the pass bounces off a receiver and into the hands of the defender it is aceptable to say that it is not the QB's fault. But if the QB under throws the receiver who is on a fly pattern by 5 or more yards or if the receiver is on a deep down and out and the Qb throws it behind him it is possible that those ints are his fault.

    Brett's avg yards per pass are down one of his lowest ever. More than likely this is due to his skills being down some but mostly to the fact that his receivers don't have the speed to get very many YACs. On some plays this year I saw a receiver go down and get a ball off the turf when he had no one on him. The ball was just slightly under thrown. SO in those few cases no Yards after the catch were not the receiver's fault. Heck maybe it wasn't Brett's fault either. If he was feeling some defense pressure he could have rushed it a bit.
    Anyhow Bretts attempts and completions were both up this year which means they leaned on him more than what they should have had to. But other stats were down from previous years. Like his avg yards, his completion % and his rating.
    It is fair to say he is not the same man that won 3 MVP's. If HE thought that he was the same man then why did he feel that he needed to go thru such a hard training program prior to the season?
     
  13. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    If in fact Favre is part of the program, I would go to him with a 3 year plan. I would outline my draft and free agent strategies, and would solicit his input on the type of players and plays he feels work best for him and design an offense that really caters to Favre's strengths.

    Look, the cupboard is far from bare, but it is also in need of a good restocking. The next 2 drafts will be huge in that regard, and I have faith that, based on his first draft which was pretty thin talentwise, TT will do well in this very deep draft in getting us some solid players.
     
  14. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    digs..

    (i agree with this...totally...)

    I kind of wish that this was done in a better manner 6 years ago...but...there's no use cryin' over spilt milk...

    (and if Favre starts breaking down and turns into John Hadl or Joe Willy...then he could say..."Well..I gave it a shot...stayed a little too long..but it doesn't define what I've done in my career.." BUT..I sincerely think this will not happen. The athletes of today have better training regimens...diets..etc..then the athletes of old...) Those guys were "old men" when they retired and Favre looks like he can go 3-4 years..easy.)

    I think the problem has been timing..this year. People can not underestimate the value of timing between a receiver and a QB. The QB has to know what the receiver is going to do and vice-versa..in an on field situation. Also, the o-line hadn't help with the timing of the passing game this year. It also depends on ability. The ability of a receiver to make a move and get separation from the DB....we haven't seen much of that this year, either. That's why they need to sign Gardner...and a guy like Molds..or someone similar....need some veteran help to compliment the rookie talent that is developing.
     
  15. MSMOLLY

    MSMOLLY Cheesehead

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    I would hope that when Brett makes his announcement that it would be for 2-3 years so we don't have to speculate in the off-season again.
     
  16. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Good Golly, Miss Molly......I agree wholeheartedly!
     
  17. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    P@ck and digs...I agree 100%....but I'm not sure TT does. GM's are judged by their moves and draft picks. TT's first pick was Rodgers and I think he is anxious to prove what a genius he is, I would be too. His "If you're asking me if I fired Brett Favre....the answer is no, I didn't fire Brett Favre. But eventually Brett Favre will retire and no longer be with the Green Bay Packers" comment really gives me the feeling that he is tired of Brett overshadowing the organization. HIS organization.

    I hope I'm wrong, and I respect your football knowledge so I am asking you to go back and look at that statement in his press conference and tell me what you see. Like I said, I'm reading into it, hopefully I'm wrong. I'm sure you can still access his press conference on Packers.com. Let me know what you see.
     
  18. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Why does the Rodgers' pick conjure up such conspiracy theories. The fact is, we were due to take the QB to follow Favre...and Rodgers just happened to be that guy. Christ, what kind of GM would TT be if he overlooked the restocking of the most critical position on the team?

    He would, in fact, be a ****** GM...and people would be screaming from here to the mountaintop if Favre walked away without someone there to move into the position. Following in the huge wake of #4, it is best to have someone acclimated to the situation, both on and off the field, and that is just what Rodgers is....or is becoming.
     
  19. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    C'mon digs....it has nothing to do with Rodgers himself. Do you deny that GM's are judged in large part by their drafts, and in particularly #1 picks? Substitute the name Schlomoe and he would still want to get him on the field.
     
  20. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    TT will have better luck proving he's a genius by getting Brett and GB another SB ring then tryin to prove Rodgers is a HoF caliber QB. That's not to be a knock on Rodgers, it's a compliment to Brett and the foundation the Packers have currently.
     
  21. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    Could not agree more,so true.
     
  22. tarkenton10

    tarkenton10 Cheesehead

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    I think you guys are between a rock and a hard place. Here's the problem, You know favre has been thinking of retiring, so the team feels they need a QB to replace him. You draft a QB and now you have either wasted a draft choice or have to watch a hall of fame QB retire. Too many people don't like change and have a very hard time dealing with favre not being under center for GB.

    Now if you let favre stay for three years Rogers is a wasted pick and a free agent. And he has not taken any real snaps from center for you. If you start Rogers and let favre go there will be an uproar. TT is in a world of dooo dooo. And he has to find a way out, the bad year that sherman had may have been his saving grace. He got to fire sherman and some people speculate that favre would retire if sherman was not the coach next year.

    TT is going to have to pick the right coach and have a winning season next year or he is going to be hunted like a white tailed deer.
     
  23. PWT36

    PWT36 Cheesehead

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    MSMOLLY--This is a year by year decision with Brett Favre. This is alright with the Packers. Packers say Brett can go out on his own terms. This could be his last year than retirement, if he indeed doesn't retire this year. It would help with Aaron Rodger's development in to a starting QB if Brett Favres comes back for a least this year. Most of this retirement hoopla is media driven. Brett Favre is honest if he says he hasn't made up his mind about this huge step in his life, that is what he is going to say, but media pushed him in every interview. You will understand some day when your time come to keep working or retire. especially if it is something you love to do, which it is with Brett Favre. I have been through retirement process and assure you it isn't easy. In fact, I am semi retired. Football has been big part of Brett life and Favre's family life. His father was High School football coach until he retired. My guess, he will be coming back this year with a roster of healthy players, many are young 1-3 years in the league.Many are more experienced because of valuable NFL play time they received last year. Plus Packers will be drafting in fifth position in every round in NFL draft. For the last thirteen years since 1992 draft, they have been drafting late rounds Example last year in 24th round. Also a group of new free agents coming this year because Packers will have some cap room (estimated to be between $10 M to $15 M) unlike last year. I don't things are as gloomy as some of dome & gloom posters have been posting on packerforum, especially if Favre is "back at the controls". It will be a busy interesting off season, the new coach and his staff, '06 Draft, Mini Camps, Training camp , Pre Season games, and then '06 season. Stand by! It should be "a great ride!!!" This long time(life time )Packer fan located in DePere, Wi. just five miles from Lambeau Field awaits with great anticipation.
     
  24. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    PWT36, please.

    If you double space at the end of a sentence this board reduces it to one space. Indenting paragraphs does not happen. With reduced spacing your punctuation is difficult for the eye to follow.

    Please add a blank line to seperate your paragraphs.

    Look at the orignial post or my post and compare it to yours for readability. It would enable others to better understand your points and respond.

    I'm just trying to be helpful.
     
  25. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    DePack...

    I hope TT and Favre don't get it done because they were on two different pages--communication wise...(ie..They can't talk to each other..."What we got here...is a failure to communicate...")

    or because TT is pissing on his own tree and marking a line in the sand...and Brett Favre's on the wrong side of it.....

    As you said...nothing would be worse if TT's ego couldn't handle having Brett Favre on his team...cause as some posters say..."He's the past...and TT's gotta make his own future with the Packers"

    -I hope that's not what is happening....
     

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