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Cutler traded to the Bears !

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by wizard 87, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    omg just because devin hester has speed doesnt mean he because he has some one who can throw long. track starts have converted into wr plenty of times im pretty sure they werent all big stars. you put Charles on him and he will not do anything. and plus whoi are going to get those 28 td passes all devin hester >.>. what i like to think about it this way cutler and rodgers are about equal except rodgers is a class act and cutler is a d bag. the only thing that cutler has is about 8 more yards on his toss WOOOOO that means hes twice the qb now... rogers will beat cutler badly this year. grant will lose to forte by a slim amount. all we have to do is fix are defense because they wont be able to fix their problems like old aged defense, old o line and suck wide recievers. while all we need to fix up 2 positions (Cbs and o line) and a defensive end.
     
  2. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    The bottom line of this trade is that before it, even if our defense improved a bit, we would win the division. Now, for us to win the division, the process of changing to the 3-4 needs to happen faster. I trully think this WILL happen (see Jags season when Capers came in), and I think we will win the division, or at least make at wildcard. It'll be a close one, though...
     
  3. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    I agree RS. Necessity is the mother of invention, but I disagree with you ARiG....Comparing Rodgers to whiney Cutler is just insane. I'd take Rodgers over that whiney brat any day of the week, and I can't wait for him to really shine this year.
     
  4. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    Hester 6, Forte 6, Olson 9, Davis 4, assorted other people get the rest of his TD passes. They're going to draft a good WR to go with Hester. There's tremendous depth this year at that position. And Hester, if he so chooses, could run right by Woodson. Randy Moss made a living running right by corners, now that Hester has someone capable of throwing the ball to him, Hester can do the same. I'm not saying Hester is the next Randy Moss, but I think Cutler makes Hester a good receiver and the biggest deep threat in the league. The Bears have a few decent receivers, it's not like he's throwing to total crap. Olsen is going to be great, hell Cutler made Tony Scheffler look great last year. Hester will improve and become a viable threat, Rasheen Davis is a solid receiver, Matt Forte is a fantastic receiver out of the backfield, Earl Bennett could have a breakout year, he was a high draft pick for them last year. Like it or not, Cutler has options. As far as defenses go, being old as the hills on D never stopped New England from playing good D, I don't see why it stops Chicago. I think a lot of what has led to Chicago being worse on D lately is that the D thought they had to win them games because of the lack of a decent offense. They now have a decent offense. Pressure is off the defense. They can loosen up, they can play knowing they're going to get production out their offense. I think that's a big mental edge for them over last year. As far as the o-line goes, Cutler had crap in Denver too. It got him used to having to get rid of the ball fast, which he does. I see the o-line having no effect on him. He wasn't sacked often in Denver, he won't be sacked often in Chicago. And I like the "we only have to fix 2 positions" stuff. How have we done so far this offseason with fixing those problems? The draft is a crapshoot, we may fix a problem there, we may draft Jamal Reynolds again. And i'll readily acknowledge that Chicago might not get a game changing receiver in the draft, I still think even without an impact rookie that their WR's and TE's are better than people give them credit for. It'd be tough to look good with Grossman throwing the ball. Same with Orton. All I know is that everyone else in our division is attempting, at the very least, to use every avenue they can to get better, like free agency and trades. We only draft. There's something fundamentally wrong with that.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the Packers, but i'm a realist. I don't see things through green and gold glasses. I think Chicago just made themselves really really good, doesn't mean I won't root my heart out for the Packers to beat them twice this year.
     
  5. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    I am going to respectfully disagree. Rarely do first year receivers amount to anything statistically for their teams.


    Of all the guys who were picked last year, how many saw significant playing time and stats?

    Second Round

    Donnie Avery (Rams) 15 Games Rec: 53 Yds: 674 TD: 3(1)
    Devin Thomas* (Skins) 16 Games Rec: 15 Yds: 120 TD: 0(1)
    Jordy Nelson (Packers) 16 Games Rec: 33 Yds: 366 TD: 2
    James Hardy* (Bills) 14 Games Rec: 9 Yds: 87 TD: 2
    Eddie Royal (Broncos) 15 Games Rec: 91 Yds: 980 Td: 5 (2 fumbles, 1 lost)
    Jerome Simpson (Bengals) 6 Games Rec: 1 Yds: 2
    DeSean Jackson* (Eagles) 16 Games Rec: 62 Yds: 912 Td: 2(1) (4 fumbles 2 lost)
    Malcolm Kelly* (Skins) 5 Games Rec: 3 Yds: 18
    Limas Sweed* (Steelers) 11 Games Rec: 6 Yds: 64 (2 fumbles 1 lost)
    Dexter Jackson (Bucs) 7 Games Rec: 0 Yds: 0, TD; 0 (1 Fumble)

    3rd Round

    Earl Bennet (Bears) 10 Games Rec: 0 Yds: 0 TD: 0
    Early Doucet (Cards) 10 Games Rec: 0 Yds: 0 TD: 0
    Harry Douglas (Falcons) 16 Games Rec: 23 Yds: 320 TD:1 (1) (1 fumble 1 lost)
    Mario Manningham (NY Giants) 7 Games RecL 4 Yds: 26 TD: 0
    Andre Caldwell (Bengal) 7 Games Rec: 11 Yds: 78 TD: 0

    * Many teams had these players ranked with 1st Round Grades before the draft

    Outside of the 3rd round not a single WR had over 300 Yards in receiving.

    Only 3 of the WRs in last year's draft class had 300 or more yards (4 actually if you count Harry Douglas with the Falcons.) Outside of the 3rd Round hardly any of the picks saw playing time, and only a handful had between 100 and 300 yards receiving.


    I mean look at that closely:


    Only 3 out of 10 players selected at the position in the Second round contributed in a meaningful way to their teams (meaningful meaning 500 or more yards), you can add two more if you lower the standard to 300 Yards and include the 4th Round and only 1 other WR in the 3rd Round saw enough passes thrown their way to amount any statistics.

    (cut out redskin receiver references from my post on their board).



    Here's the thing the best WRs in this draft will be 1st Rounders, and the bears, have no ammo to move up now probably. They have a 2nd and nothing till the 4th. Are they really going to spend a 2nd on a WR

    Michael Crabtree
    Jeremy Macklain
    Percy Harvin (Could fall rumor was on roids or pot at combine)
    Kenny Britt
    Darious Heyword-Bey
    Hakeem Nicks

    after that the second round will be very much hit and miss on WRs, bank on it.

    (Side note, Jordy nelson, looks like he will be good long term for the packers, and would have been more productive if not for a stacked WR position already in Green Bay.)

    But my point is after the first couple of rounds the draft is so much more of a crap shoot, and the bears need to also draft some O-line help badly to protect their investment in Cutler too.

    Also look at the rookie seasons from some of the best WRs in the league:

    I'll just do some of the best WR's now rookie seasons.
    Terrell Owens: 16 games, 35 rec, 520 yds, 4 TDs
    Randy Moss: 16 games, 69 rec, 1313 yds, 17 TDs
    Steve Smith: 15 games, 10 rec, 154 yds, 0 TDs
    Chad Ochocinco: 12 games, 28 rec, 329 yds, 1 TD
    Andre Johnson: 16 games, 66 rec, 976 yds, 4 TDs
    Reggie Wayne: 13 games, 27 rec, 345 yds, 0 TDs
    TJ Houshmandzadeh: 12 games, 21 rec, 228 yds, 0 TDs
    Larry Fitzgerald: 16 games, 58 rec, 780 yds, 8 TDs
    Anquan Boldin: 16 games, 101 rec, 1377 yds, 8 TDs
    Calvin Johnson: 15 games, 48 rec, 756 yds, 4 TDs

    So as you can tell, besides Moss, Boldin, AJ, and Fitz, most rookie WRs are pretty average right out of the gate. So its not like Thomas and Kelly have 0 chance to succeed because they didn't have 1,000 yard seasons their rookie years. There is still hope!

    Not all of them were first rounders, I realize, but you can see that being a significant contribution is not a forgone conclusion.

    Still not convinced?

    lets look at the Steve Smith 2001 Draft, because there were a ton of WR's taken in the top three rounds. They produced a wide variety of stats their rookie years.

    I think the evidence speaks volumes:

    1(8) -- David Terrell -- 34, 415, 4TD
    1(9) -- Koren Robinson -- 39, 536, 1TD
    1(15) -- Rod Gardner -- 46, 741, 4TD
    1(16) -- Santana Moss -- 2, 40, 0TD
    1(25) -- Freddie Mitchell -- 21, 283, 1TD
    1(30) -- Reggie Wayne -- 27, 345, 0TD
    2(33) -- Quincy Morgan -- 30, 432, 2TD
    2(41) -- Robert Ferguson -- 0, 0, 0TD
    2(52) -- Chris Chambers -- 48, 883, 7TD
    3(74) -- Steve Smith -- 10, 154, 0TD
    3(77) -- Marvin Minnis -- 33, 511, 1TD

    So, if NFL message board posters going in to the 2002 season would have been talking about how Rod Gardner and Chris Chambers are awesome and have great futures ahead of them. Marvin Minnis, David Terrell, Koren Robinson and and Quincy Morgan all look like solid contributors for many years.

    Santana Moss, Reggie Wayne and Steve Smith?

    Ha, they combined for exactly ZERO touchdowns. Obvious busts. Keep an eye on Freddie Mitchell though as he learns that Andy Reid offense.

    (Thanks to Nightbird of ExtremeSkins for compiling that data already.)


    My point is valid, even if they DO draft a WR, there is no guarantee he will have the numbers, and judging by this years draft, I do not believe that the WR position is any deeper than last years, in fact I'd say the top few are all pretty good, and then there is a major drop off.

    Now you made the opinion that the bears have a couple of good WR already, I disagree with this point. The bears had better look for a WR in Free Agency, cause here's what they have for Cutler to throw to:

    Who is now on their active roster?
    Devin Armoashodu 3 Years 6 Games in 07 (Colts) 7/96 Yards
    Earl Bennet 1 Year 10 games Zilch for stats
    John Broussard Sat out last year 8 Games in 07 4/126 Yards 1 TD (Jax)
    Rudy Burgess (1 year never saw playing time)
    Rashied Davis 4 Years 60 games, 74/913 and 4 TD (3 fumbles 1 lost)
    Devin Hester 3 years (2 as a WR) 31 games as a WR, 71/964 Yards and 5 TD (20 fumbles 5 lost)
    Brandon Rideau 4 Years No meaningful stats

    At TE they have:
    Desmond Clark 10 Year Veteran 303/3434 Yards 25 TD (8 Fumbles 5 lost)
    Kellen Davis 1 Year no stats
    Greg Olson 2 years, 30 Games, 93/965 Yards 7 TD (2 Fumbles 2 LosT)
    Fontel Mines (07 pick, never saw the field)
    That leaves their Running backs of Kevin Jones, Matt Forte, and the other Adrian Peterson to catch balls.

    The bears, need to Draft a quality WR frankly :/, but outside of the first round, there won't be many sure fire good ones available I foresee.


    Cutler got dealt to a team with Less WR talent than the Skins, Bengals, and 49ers Combined LOL

    And to think, Brandon Lloyd looked like a toP WR with them last year. No wonder, they had noone else after Hester.


    And lloyd, got cut, so this offseason so what does that tell you?

    They need to look at the available free agents, and try to pick up one there, question is who.
     
  6. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    I am a realist two i agree that forte and olson will be good but to call them your best 2 wide recievers is pathetic and one thing dont even compare devin hester to randy moss randy moss was made to play reciever. devin hester all he was made for his running the 40 yard dash. he has stone hands he can not catch. and if you were truely a realist u would of noticed that orton is a pretty good qb. and how do you know that their 2nd round draft pick is going to be a good reciever the first year, i mean we got one of the top rated te's last year and he did not even start good. the final thing how can you say rasheen davis is pretty good i mean our 5th reciever is way better than their 1 and 2
     
  7. 4thand26

    4thand26 Cheesehead

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    [quote="Aaron rodgers is god]

    I am a realist two i agree that forte and olson will be good but to call them your best 2 wide recievers is pathetic and one thing dont even compare devin hester to randy moss randy moss was made to play reciever. devin hester all he was made for his running the 40 yard dash. he has stone hands he can not catch. and if you were truely a realist u would of noticed that orton is a pretty good qb. and how do you know that their 2nd round draft pick is going to be a good reciever the first year, i mean we got one of the top rated te's last year and he did not even start good. the final thing how can you say rasheen davis is pretty good i mean our 5th reciever is way better than their 1 and 2[/quote]

    lol. Now that Orton is gone, he is good???
     
  8. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    if you watched some bears games last year you could see some talent in him, if you saw him closely but its tough to tell when he is not throwing a bunch of deep passes and when he did it was a 10% chance for devin hester to catch it and most of his passes were dump offs. I can almost gaurentee orton will do better than cutler this year not last year sincehe's got a big play wide reciever also he has the rookie eddie royal who did good last season plus he will have a great o line. Im not saying Orton is better than Cutler but all im saying is orton is an all out trashy qb.
     
  9. 4thand26

    4thand26 Cheesehead

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    I am a bears fan. I watched every bears game. Orton is not good. He is immobile. He is HORRIBLE at the long pass. Absolutely horrible. He can hit the checkdown - thus the high number of RB and TE receptions.

    Orton did have the ankle injury, which I am sure affected him. However, Orton just does not have the skills.

    Cutler did have better receivers, no doubt. However, when you played against Denver, you had to really watch the good WR's, so that opened up the running game a little. COnversely, when you played the bears, you had to watch the run, and the bears never could exploit that. I believe Cutler is much better than orton. THis will have a ripple effect. Teams will have to respect the pass more, which may open up the run game a little bit.

    Overall, the bears upgraded significantly the most important position in sports. I look at it as a big plus. Now we will see how it pays off.
     
  10. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    Josh McDaniels would seem to disagree. Why else would he take Orton if he didn't think the man could play Ball?
     
  11. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Josh McDaniels is an idiot... If you have a great young qb, you don't just bargain him! He thinks Matt Cassel, a guy who took a 18-1, record breaking team and managed to miss the playoffs, is better than Cutler. I'm not saying that he Bears got the better end of the deal, because 2 1st round picks will set your team back, but there doesn't seem to be a better qb in the next 2 years than Cutler, and if there is, he'll take a lot of time to develop. And for sure Cutler is better than Kyle Orton. Does the simple addition of Cutler makes the bears a better team? SURE! A better team than us? Probably no, because they have many other needs and can't adress them this year, and we have 3 real needs that we need to adress (DE, OLB and OL) (but could be 4 if Tauscher doesn't re-sign and even 5 if Clifton can't stay healthy) and CAN adress through draft and (yes, it's still here) FA.

    In short, Orton will not be starting in 2011 (I don't even think he'll start in 2010, Simms is competing for the startng job) while Cutler will be the qb for the bears in a long time. AND Rodgers is beter, and will always be better, because 1)He has more talent and 2)Gregory Jennings Jr.
     
  12. 4thand26

    4thand26 Cheesehead

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    Without Cutler, the bears were a better team than the Packers last year. With Cutler, who I believe improves the Bears, I would think that the Bears are still better than the Packers. True, TT did bolster the backup Safety position in FA, but I dont believe that is enough to surpass the Bears addition. (lol)

    With that said, here are the wild cards as I see them for GB: Rodgers could progress. He did much better than I thought he would - actually not getting hurt was better than I thought he would do. The gb WR core is good. Jennings is very good. It will be interesting to see how much he gets on the open market next year, unless TT can lock him up early. Driver will get older, but there is other talent at that position.

    You said that the bears cant address their needs in the draft this year. WHy? They gave up a first and a third this year. They still have a 3rd from compensatory compensation. If you look at the bears 1st round draft for the past 5 years, it isnt that great anyways. They still have draft picks to address needs. OLine was a big need. The bears have signed Cleveland starting right tackle, St. Louis's starting left tackle, and Carolinas backup left tackle. Who knows if these guys are any good, but they have to be better than what they could get in the draft.

    The bears are left with a gaping need at WR and DE. Maybe Mark Anderson can regain his rookie season form. Probably not.

    The packers have a pretty big need at OLine, DE, and OLB. I would bet that TT picks up 1 or 2 other players after the draft to help fill needs. I think that there are usually a lot of cuts where players can be had.

    Hopefully none of that comes off as smack.
     
  13. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    if you can say the bears has more talent than the packers you must be crazy. This is STill THE 13-3 TEAM!! it wasn't because of Favre it was because of unfortunate injuries and pains throughout the seasons. Culen jenkins out for year Nick barnett ut for season 2 very important people . than later on al harris out. aj hawk hurt hammy the entire season. im probably missing some people but this is one of the big reasons why the packers blew last year. and for user you guys are so bi polar its not even funny. your 13-3 season sexy rexy is GOD... he has a bad game "WTF rex grossman sucks" same with the next year he has a couple good games than you guys are like WOOOO. i mean i have a couple friends at school who are already saying that cutler will win the superbowl for them. so we will let the season talk for u guys.
     
  14. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I'm not discussing who played better last year, that's obvious. My point is that 2 years ago we had a RECORD 13-3 season. And last year Clifton played injured, so did Tauscher, Bigby almost didn't play, Jenkins didn't play, Bigby didn't play, Woodson (he was a beast) played injured, Harris played injured and missed some time, Barnett only played half season...

    That's a lot of injuries, from positions that are considered need right now... We had a lot of bad playcalling on D, and we fixed that.

    If it was a winning season followed by a losing season, I would say we're in a downfall. But it was a RECORD season, and we're the youngest team in the league...

    The Bears, IMO, needs 2 WR, a better OL (getting an olineman from the worst line in the league isn't a boost...), another DT to complement Harris, but I agree that it can be done regardless of the draft, 2 pass rushers and at least 1 safety. That's hard to do in one year as it is, and not having only 2 picks inside the 100, being them the 49 and 99 makes it harder. Meanwhile we have 4 inside the 100, 5 inside 110, and being the higher pick a 9, to adress what IMO are less needs than you have...

    That's why I think we are and will be a better team than you next season.
     
  15. BearDown!

    BearDown! Cheesehead

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    Let me first say, I'm incredibly happy that the Bears were able to get a quarterback. Especially one with the caliber of Cutler. I'm happy enough that I've come out of hibernation and shown my face back on this site after the Bears dismal 2007 season.

    I'm excited for the upcoming season. But, I'm not going to get my hopes up. This isn't 2006. Everything everyone has said is right. We have no receivers. Having Cutler isn't going to teach Hester how to catch a ball. It's not going to let Lloyd come of the bench and have some great year after not making one catch last year. Maybe Bennett makes a few catches, but it's nowhere what we need.

    It's going to take some time. I would love to see the Bears be a threat this year, but it's going to take a couple years to build a team around Cutler.
     
  16. 4thand26

    4thand26 Cheesehead

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  17. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Wow. A bears fan that has reason. Rare. You are right, I've put some facts, but until the teams are facing each other on the field, opinions and predictions are nothing more than that...
    And while I'm on that, I do believe our division is a close call, and also believe that the bears are better than the vikes, untill they can adress the qb.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    4th and 26 is one of my favorite Bear posters if not THE favorite

    Never heard a more thoughtful non biased opinion from a rival fan such as his
     
  19. 4thand26

    4thand26 Cheesehead

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    Division will be a close call. We are all 0-0, except maybe the lions. I am encouraged by the FA activity of the Bears. Good or bad, it makes for an exciting off season.

    I think that TT has done a very good job building the packers. However, it would be infuriating to me having to go through the off season as a packer fan without addressing any needs. Then again, how many rings does Daniel Snyder have with all his FA aquisitions?
     
  20. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    i can agree with that this year is the divison will be much more competitive not like years before where one team kind of ran off with it. it will me much more like the east everyone with a good record and it will be hard to get a wild card. not saying we are as good as the east but we definitely got closer.

    and yes 4th and 26 is not bias that's why i love talking sports with one of my friends who happens to be a bears fan because he can interpret a team from any angle not like some other friends who just happened to hear the news and automatically thinks their team is going to win the superbowl.
    i would have to say im very biased but what can i say i love this team with all my heart, but i can see logic and reason from other points of view
     
  21. DBLDPACFAN

    DBLDPACFAN Cheesehead

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    Total upgrade for the teddies...IMO they now have the best QB in the division...Orton managed the game well from 0-15 yards out, but couldn't hit a sumo wrestler down field if he was open...and they won 9 games. As for Hester, we don't know if he can catch a deep ball... cause Orton always under-threw him by 5-10 yards every time. Urlacher is TOTALLY overrated, but Briggs is a force to be reckoned with.

    As for the Queens, I hear AP wants a few more helpings from the gravy bowl at Thanksgiving...Chilly isn't to keen on him beefing up either...I personally don't see how growing sausage fingers is going to help AP him hang on to the ball. And with no QB and the likely suspension of the blubber barricade...Chicago could give us all we can Handel.
     
  22. 4thand26

    4thand26 Cheesehead

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    Sumo wrestler...blubber barricade...good stuff.

    100% agree with the orton accessment. I will put my chicago bears blinders on and disagree with the URlacher rating, although even I will say that he needs to reallly step up this year.
     
  23. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    best qb in the league we will have to see this year
     
  24. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I agree with Orton and the queens, but Cutler isn't the best QB in the division. He wasn't the best last year, and that was Rodgers' first season as a starter, opposite to Cutler's 3rd. But is a close call.
    About Urlacher, are you crazy? everytime this guy plays us he has a sack, an interception, a forced or a recovered fumble, and lots of tackles. The only downside is that he's older now, but he's a great player...
     
  25. Sunshine885500

    Sunshine885500 Cheesehead

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    I believe that you can give up premium picks for a guy that is going to be involved in every play like a QB, however in my opinion they gave up too much for him. It will help them if they can adapt their offense to his style, but the problem is that Chicago is a run based offense that plays for a defensive minded coach. Not a good match. Cutler playing in the Bears offense with the way the wind blows in Solder Field will wind up getting lost like a great Running back in a Pass happy Offense. Only time will tell, but I would have given up that many premium picks just because he made the Pro Bowl one year. Anybody remember Javon Walker. One year of success doesn't automatically make a guy a superstar.
     

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