Clay Mathews is done.

[XPack]

Anyway, I think this is Clay's last season with us.

 

[AKCheese]

When do we get to unload this guy without taking a massive cap hit?

 

[Mondio]

he's done after this year. I think we could have cut him before week 1 if we had anyone to step in and take his place, but his salary is guaranteed now, so silly to do that at this point

 

[bigbubbatd]

Come on. It was back in 2015 and Nick Perry had a 3 game streak with nothing at same time. Anyways, we need to look at recent history for a useful discussion.

Even if you disagree is Clay that much better than what we have at ILB? Martinez is definitely better. Would Clay stay on the field in passing downs?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

When do we get to unload this guy without taking a massive cap hit?

He should make great trade bait right about now if the Packers are in need of a say.....a bag of donuts.

 

[Dantés]

I think the history of teams with Ryan/Pettine run defenses can be instructive about the OLB position. In the 4 years that they were with the Jets, their top 100 defensive picks were:

-Kyle Wilson (1st, CB)
-Muhammad Wilkerson (1st, iDL)
-Kenrick Ellis (3rd, iDL)
-Quinton Coples (1st, ?)
-Demario Davis (3rd, OBLB)

In his one year with Buffalo:

-Kiko Alonso (2nd, OBLB)

In his two years with the Browns:

-Justin Gilbert (1st, CB)
-Christian Kirksey (3rd, OBLB)
-Danny Shelton (1st, iDL)
-Nate Orchard (2nd, ED)
-Xavier Cooper (3rd, iDL)

One year with the Packers:

-Jaire Alexander (1st, CB)
-Josh Jackson (2nd, CB)
-Oren Burks (3rd, OBLB)

Quinton Coples is the one guy that I have a hard time defining. If memory serves, they drafted him to primarily play on the line (like a 5T) and only moved him to an edge position when that failed. If I'm right about that, then here are the numbers:

-4 cornerbacks
-5 interior defensive linemen
-4 off-ball linebackers
-1 edge
-0 safeties

Additionally, the biggest FA money I can find in his history was spent on Antonio Cromartie (CB), Donte Whitner (S), Karlos Dansby (OBLB), and Tramon Williams (CB).

The trend indicates that corners, defensive linemen, and off-ball linebackers are more important to him than edge rushers. This makes sense given how his scheme tends to operate. He wants talented DL who can create pressure and occupy OL attention and defensive backs who can cover man to man. With those two things in place, he will scheme pressure rather than rely on a predictable source, such as a Rod Marinelli 4-3. The emphasis on OBLB would indicate to me that he wants a field general to run his system and be an important cog in that manufactured pressure.

All this is to say that while they absolutely need to acquire more OLB depth right now, we probably shouldn't expect for it to become a big position of emphasis.

 

[easyk83]

Well said and I hate to say it, we will also be seeing Fackrell at some point as well. If people moan and groan about Clay, KF isn't going to make them feel any better. I am still a bit surprised at Gute apparently sitting on his hands right now in regards to the OLB position. 5th man up is PS player Donnerson and he by no means is ready to play.

Rushing the passer is kinda like playing Russian Roulette. Sometimes the bullet's in the chamber and sometimes it isn't. Now the obvious choice is to have a marquee pass rusher with a good second and the other is just to have multiple guys who can get it done even if none are studs. Suppose Perry racks up 8-9 sacks and Clay puts up 7 and then Daniels and Wilk notch 12 between the two of them. That's nearly 30 sacks between those 4 players and then you just need the rest of the defense to pick up the slack with corner safety LB blitzes and lets not forget contributions from guys like Lowry Clark Martinez Fackrell and Gilbert, say 2 sacks a piece. If enough guys produce you could easily have a 40+ sack season right there.

As for addressing the problem I think we forget how many of Reggie White's Aaron Kampman or young Clay Matthews' sacks came because of good coverage. Coverage sacks are something we haven't seen much of in the last three years. Case in point see the difference between Clay Matthews in 10 versus 11. In 2010 he notches 13.5 sacks and then 6 the following season. Was he failing to get after the quarterback? Or was it that A) the loss of Nick Collins exposed Charlie Peprah as a terrible cover safety, B) Tramon Williams was hurt, opening night, and honestly not the same guy and C) Charles Woodson was another year older and less effective as a corner. That year Coaches gave Clay high marks for hurries and knockdowns but he wasn't getting home. Was his play worse or did a marked decline in our secondary make it harder to produce sacks? I think the later is a better explanation because the following year Clay's back to double digit sacks when Tramon returned to full health.

Nick Perry's strip fumble came on a coverage sack and came after Nick made either his second or third pass rush move. When is the last time we saw that? Hell even Clay's boneheaded play was a successful pressure that flushed Trubisky out of the pocket and forced him into a low percentage throw. It was a decisive game winning play right until he launched himself. There's more than one way to skin a cat and Gute's moves have been to deepen our starting group of pass rushers and to improve coverage behind them. He also drafted a fast cover backer who should improve our blitz success rate. Easier to bring pressure from all over with a fast backer in the middle who can cover up gaps created behind blitzing players. Corner blitz Burks can get there, safety blitz burks can get there. You rushed 5, dont worry Burks has it covered.

 

[PackerFanLV]

Ive been saying this for a while, but it seemed like he was on PED's before and stopped. His production the last 3-4 season have not matched his contract at all. He get stood up everytime off the edge.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Come on. It was back in 2015 and Nick Perry had a 3 game streak with nothing at same time. Anyways, we need to look at recent history for a useful discussion.

It doesn't get better 3 years and several injuries hence. If Matthews stays healthy I would expect he'll have some good games this season. However, like Nelson, his best days are behind him.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Agreed and what some people saw is a Clay that got to the QB more while rushing from the ILB postion....

I believe that's revisionist history.

 

[HardRightEdge]

For context, PFF rated 74 OLBs and Matthews ranked 74th. Said, (i'm not sure if this was a joke) that only 1 player was rated lower - Nathan Peterman QB. Who had one of the worsts game of any QB in NFL history.

That Matthews rating does not suprise me.

Peterman could only have the second worst game in NFL history, despite the 0.00 passer rating. That honor goes to Peterman (right, same guy) who set an NFL record by throwing 5 INTs in the first half against the Chargers last season.

How's this for a stat line? 6-14, 66 yards, 0 TDs, 5 INTs.

 

[Mondio]

He has a chance to respond to a bad game. He's a pro and knows how to work. We'll see if he does better or if this is what we're left with. I don't expect a 14 sack season, but he will have better games and I'd shoot for 10 give or take.

 

[PackerDNA]

I hope they've shelved extension talks with Clay.

 

[gbgary]

he's been thoroughly called-out/embarrassed by the media/fans. mm took a shot too, without naming him specifically, today in his presser. you know it was worse in the film room. i think he bounces back this week.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I hope they've shelved extension talks with Clay.

I assume you mean Hair Club For Men?

 

[PikeBadger]

Hmm ... I know this an an extreme outlier... but I’d like to point out that Julius Peppers was playing for Carolina on Sunday.... and playing very well.

Good for Peppers. Glad he was able to go home to finish his career. Truly a generational talent that has had a terrific career. I’m happy for him.

 

[PikeBadger]

he's been thoroughly called-out/embarrassed by the media/fans. mm took a shot, too without naming him specifically, today in his presser. you know it was worse in the film room. i think he bounces back this week.

Deserves every bit of it imo.

 

[Mondio]

Good for Peppers. Glad he was able to go home to finish his career. Truly a generational talent that has had a terrific career. I’m happy for him.

and interestingly enough, he looked better last year and to start this season than he did in his last year with GB. Funny how players can be set up to look great, good, mediocre, or bad depending on the defense. I figured Peppers was mostly done, but he did have a pretty good year last year. It's still a long season this year yet, but he doesn't seem to age

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Peppers is a good example of what a player can do when they set their minds to it, still be productive at 30 and beyond. Sure injuries can derail a career earlier than expected and often do, but I have to wonder how many guys mentally check out at a certain age. Their bank accounts are set for retirement, they have slowed down a bit, grueling workouts, training camps, preseasons, 16+ game seasons AND the possibility of suffering an injury that effects the quality of their future life, make them just say "ok, I can coast from here".

I think I read that Clay makes over $5M/year in endorsements, add that to his yearly salary and what he has already banked, it wouldn't surprise me if he is just coasting and "playing it safe" in his final years.

 

[ctfxcwatcher]

I was just rewatching some of the Packers 2010 Superbowl run and the amount of playmakers we had on that team is crazy. I miss it. Clay was in peak form and it's sad how far he's fallen but I've been over the guy for years now. Unless he steps it up for the rest of the season, which I don't think he will, it's time to finally say goodbye.

 

[Dirk]

The guy just don’t have it anymore . Misses tackle after tackle, caught multiple times frozen in his tracks, thrown around like a bean bag the whole game.

We need a legitimate pass rushing threat and he’s not it.

Hopefully not. Prefer if it was just a little rust. Still had the burst off the line, just didn't do anything after that. The penalty was terrible. Like he thought "I saw people getting flagged for hitting guys late and falling on them, if I don't fall on them it will be ok." Obviously wasn't.

 

[Dirk]

Hopefully it was just rust and not a preview of what's to come. Killer penalty obviously. Rest of the D saved his ***. Hopefully as the 3 core d-line guys start owning people like we all know they will, he can take advantage of less eyes on him. We can hope ,right?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hopefully it was just rust and not a preview of what's to come. Killer penalty obviously. Rest of the D saved his ***. Hopefully as the 3 core d-line guys start owning people like we all know they will, he can take advantage of less eyes on him. We can hope ,right?

After the game, Clay was seen with his wig off and addressing Nick Perry and the rest of the Packer defense.

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[GleefulGary]

Peppers is a good example of what a player can do when they set their minds to it, still be productive at 30 and beyond. Sure injuries can derail a career earlier than expected and often do, but I have to wonder how many guys mentally check out at a certain age. Their bank accounts are set for retirement, they have slowed down a bit, grueling workouts, training camps, preseasons, 16+ game seasons AND the possibility of suffering an injury that effects the quality of their future life, make them just say "ok, I can coast from here".

I think I read that Clay makes over $5M/year in endorsements, add that to his yearly salary and what he has already banked, it wouldn't surprise me if he is just coasting and "playing it safe" in his final years.

Peppers is also just a freak of nature.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Have to wonder what the dynamics of Clay is to the other team. Once a guy that they had to always be aware of and possibly devote a second blocker to him. If in fact teams are no longer doing that and just saying "Clay who?", that leaves Pettine and Co. to find ways to either figure out a different way to use him or just wait until Gilbert or someone else is a better option. We can all **** and moan about how bad Clay played against the Bears, but the truth of the matter is, who do we have to take his place?

After watching the Matthews **** show unfold last Sunday and with multiple websites agreeing on the performance so much that they graded Matthews showing as the worst edge rusher out of 74 in the entire nfl I have come to the conclusion it will not be hard to replace that type of production. Give Gilbert a chance. I’m sure Matthews will get a sack this week and some will praise him to no end. As someone else stated somewhere on this forum that sack every other game or so isn’t that great of a feat when he constantly takes himself out of the play or loses contain in his feeble attempt at getting to the qb.