All Capers Threads merged

[Dan115]

Maybe need some different players. Capers might enjoy working with a few different faces.

 

[TJV]

I think too much is being made of Burnett not playing. He is certainly better than J Mac but Burnett has not been as solid at safety as some seem to think. McGinn graded him out in 2012 at a B- and he led the team with 11 missed tackles. Our corners didn't play all that well either and though we were tough against the run there was little pass rush. And then there's that zone Capers stayed with.

If you are going to use McGinn's grade for Burnett last season you should also consider his evaluation of Burnett in his ranking of the current 53-man roster:

3. MORGAN BURNETT, S Sat out the last 11/2 exhibition games with a pulled hamstring. Considering what's behind him at safety, the Packers can ill afford to be without his services for long. Still a developing player despite signing the big contract extension July 15. An all-around player with a serious demeanor. Has grown into a solid professional.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ranking-the-packers-b9986681z1-222753441.html

I think the ranking is warranted because of the lack of talent at safety behind him. Whether or not you agree with the specific ranking of #3, it’s clear the Packers played one of the best NFC teams at their stadium without a valuable player on defense, isn't it?

As for Capers playing so much zone, that was one of the reasons the Packers did so well controlling the 9ers running game. Remember during the playoff game the Packers played a lot of man coverage which resulted in the DBs not being aware of the QB’s taking off running because their backs were towards him. One of the fixes for that, along with "controlled" pass rushing, is playing a lot more zone. Even so, the scheme accounted for Boldin by doubling and bracketing him and the players didn’t execute.

The link you posted in your last post is another example of the players ******** up even though zone coverage was called for at least in part on that play. IOW, it wasn't the zone scheme that screwed up, it was a player.

 

[El Guapo]

I know that it's not this simple, but I've always thought of man-to-man as the ultimate defense if you have players with the physical tools to do it. If not, you got to zone defense utilizing players' mental skills. If your guys are lacking in both departments....good luck

 

[13 Times Champs]

If you are going to use McGinn's grade for Burnett last season you should also consider his evaluation of Burnett in his ranking of the current 53-man roster: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ranking-the-packers-b9986681z1-222753441.html

And what exactly changes what McGinn graded him as last year? Has he done anything this year (hasn't played) that changes it. My point is that there is a lot of crying about Burnett not being in there and he's better than what we had on Sunday but he isn't all that and a bag of chips.

And if you have read any of my previous posts I said Capers was determined to not let the run beat him. I would have liked to see some adjustment from him when it was clear KP and Boldin were carving us up. Still he stayed in the zone.

And an unrelated comment about Capers and not having a full complement of players. I think that's probably going to be the case more often than not. Being down a guy here or there and then saying Capers didn't have all his horses is growing old on me.

 

[RockyRaccoon]

My point is that there is a lot of crying about Burnett not being in there and he's better than what we had on Sunday but he isn't all that and a bag of chips.

No he isn't. But we lost by 6 points. We didn't need a vast improvement. We certainly don't become a shutdown secondary with Burnett, but he very well could have been the difference. All it takes is one play. And don't forget Burnett's the one making coverage calls

And if you have read any of my previous posts I said Capers was determined to not let the run beat him. I would have liked to see some adjustment from him when it was clear KP and Boldin were carving us up. Still he stayed in the zone.

If we started playing man, Kaepernick likely would have gashed us on the ground again. We already know what he can do with his legs. We needed to make him beat us with his arm, and he did. More power to him.

 

[TJV]

And what exactly changes what McGinn graded him as last year? Has he done anything this year (hasn't played) that changes it. My point is that there is a lot of crying about Burnett not being in there and he's better than what we had on Sunday but he isn't all that and a bag of chips.

The point is if you are using what McGinn wrote about Burnett last January it doesn't make sense to ignore what he wrote less than a week ago about him. For example, if Jennings or McMillian or someone else had stepped up at safety (like a healthy Sean Richardson), McGinn wouldn't have had Burnett at #3. IOW it's a commentary not only about Burnett but also about his importance with regard to the players behind him at safety. It's one thing not to have all your guys. It's another to have no adequate starter at safety.

And BTW, I can almost hear the screaming and gnashing of teeth (OK, that's hard to hear!) if Kaep had gashed the Packers with a long run or two in fourth quarter.

 

[13 Times Champs]

The point is if you are using what McGinn wrote about Burnett last January it doesn't make sense to ignore what he wrote less than a week ago about him. For example, if Jennings or McMillian or someone else had stepped up at safety (like a healthy Sean Richardson), McGinn wouldn't have had Burnett at #3. IOW it's a commentary not only about Burnett but also about his importance with regard to the players behind him at safety. It's one thing not to have all your guys. It's another to have no adequate starter at safety.

And BTW, I can almost hear the screaming and gnashing of teeth (OK, that's hard to hear!) if Kaep had gashed the Packers with a long run or two in fourth quarter.

I already addressed your point and you repeated same. What has Burnett done in 2013 to change that? As I said the excuse that Capers doesn't have all his players in there is growing old with me. No doubt not having Burnett against SF was a blow but you have to at some point say this is just getting tired. I want to see a Defensive Coordinator like I saw in 2010 and he has been absent since then.

 

[13 Times Champs]

If we started playing man, Kaepernick likely would have gashed us on the ground again. We already know what he can do with his legs. We needed to make him beat us with his arm, and he did. More power to him.

There's an in between. Mix up your defense.

 

[longtimefan]

http://www.greenbaypackernation.com/dom-capers-under-fire/#more-1035

Since Capers arrived at Green Bay, the Packers have actually had a very good defense. Dom arrived in 2009. From that time through 2012, the Packers have ranked #4 in points allowed (19.3) and #4 in overall TDs (138). Granted they took a step backward in 2012 in the points allowed category, giving up 21.0 points per game. Still, they ranked #11 in the league.

Remove the 2012 defensive stumble and the Packers rank #1 in TDs allowed from 2009-2011 with 101.

In both 2009 and 2010, the Pack had a top ten scoring defense. In 2011, the Packers won the turnover battle or tied it in every single game.


All of this says we have a pretty good defensive coordinator.

With all of that said, it still alarms me that in three of four post seasons the Packers’ defense has not gotten the job done.

The core question that comes to my mind when I see people calling for Capers to be fired is…

Who would you choose to replace him? And, the answer of “anyone” just won’t cut it. If the Packers are going to fire Dom Capers, they have to have a name in mind. So, who would the Packers pick that could post the numbers listed above or better them and also have a great showing every time the playoffs arrive?

Show me that person and I’ll be happy to jump on board the fire Capers wagon. Until then, I think firing Dom is a bit of an overreaction.

 

[TJV]

If longtimefan's post is old so is 13 Times' pretending to answer a challenge he hasn't. Again, the difference is McGinn and the rest of us have had the 2013 off season to evaluate the players behind Burnett at safety - neither Jennings nor McMillian - or anyone else - stepped up. That's the difference.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

I already addressed your point and you repeated same. What has Burnett done in 2013 to change that? As I said the excuse that Capers doesn't have all his players in there is growing old with me. No doubt not having Burnett against SF was a blow but you have to at some point say this is just getting tired. I want to see a Defensive Coordinator like I saw in 2010 and he has been absent since then.

I agree with 13 that the claim is becoming tiresome. However I don't feel so just because I'm tired of hearing it, I am; yet it is a valid point, injuries have been a issue since winning the Super Bowl in 2010. The only way to reasonably eliminate it as a possible cause from the discussion is to eliminate the issue and see how the D responds on game days.

 

[Forget Favre]

OK smart guys.
Fire him but replace him with who?
Can anyone name a perfect and unemployed DC who would be better than Capers?
Even so, you still don't know what he would really do unless a game was being played.

 

[longtimefan]

OK smart guys.
Fire him but replace him with who?
Can anyone name a perfect and unemployed DC who would be better than Capers?
Even so, you still don't know what he would really do unless a game was being played.

I asked same question in my post

 

[13 Times Champs]

Funny stuff. Come up with a name so it can be torn down. I subscribe to the Ron Wolf theory. If you think someone is indispensable drive by a graveyard sometime.

 

[Forderick]

The defence is just plain bad. After that embarrassing playoff loss to the Niners last year, Capers should have been fired. The players were bad too but its a lot easier to get rid of one co-ordinator than an entire defence. How many more embarrassing games does Capers have left?

the offence is going to be good again, (baring the Oline). but this D is again so far looking bad.

Green Bay is a fake tough team, they can beat up on the not so good teams but when a team punches them in the mouth and plays them physical, they just cannot win.

 

[12theTruth]

This thread will NEVER die. LOL I wouldn't really classify the Packers D as a bad defense nor would I call it good! In today's NFL many 'good' defenses give up a lot of yards. If I had to label Capers defense I would call it an average overall defense that is also situationally bad. If Capers had been fired after the end of last season, I'm sure many of us wouldn't have been too surprised given the playoff results. Capers I feel has a decent group of assistant coaches but the defense has some critical flaws that I feel will rear their ugly head at some point against teams with GREAT QB's especially QB's that can run and pass which will ultimately cost us in a crucial game.


Hawk does look more dynamic this season but the jury is still out on his counterpart at ILB.The back end of our defense is still soft. Hayward adds some toughness but essentially the rest of the secondary is finesse and have serious issues with tackling. I feel people have vastly overated Morgan Burnett as to his overall ability to limit the other teams passing game.

Take Anquan Boldin for example. Watching the game last night he was essentially shut down for a good part of the game against Seattles secondary. Does anybody seriously think even with Hayward and Burnett back we even come close to that feat?

 

[Sunshine885500]

The difference between what Green Bay & Seattle does on defense boils down to one thing. Seattle's DB play press coverage much the way Al Harris use to play with GB. Our DB's play Zone on the back end which let's Receivers get a free release off of the line of scrimmage. Until our Defense isn't afraid to get up in the Receiver's faces and jam them off of the line and stay with them, and our Safeties become more physical (i.e Leroy Butler, Nick Collins) our defense will continue to give up too many yards through the air against Zone Read Offenses.

Green Bay will be much more affective against QB's who will not run out of the backfield. Then they can use their blitz packages and run more games on the defensive line. Again, against a SF & Seattle they need to have a controlled rush but need to play much more physical with their receivers from the line of scrimmage. The front 7 needs to control the QB running out of the pocket. The you will see a more affective defense. They knew RGIII wouldn't run that much so their defense looked much better but playing zone just lets the receivers sit down in the open pockets.

My hope is that Capers will adjust going forward based on the QB's he goes against and doesn't just stay in the same old scheme no matter who they are playing.

 

[pacmaniac]

So Kapernick throws for over 400 yards against us, and then in both of his next 2 games he completes under 50% of his passes and he throws for 150 yards or less.

 

[Dan115]

So Kapernick throws for over 400 yards against us, and then in both of his next 2 games he completes under 50% of his passes and he throws for 150 yards or less.

So, do you think the Packers should fire Capers?

 

[12theTruth]

Couple of observations about the defense so far this year. It seems Williams has to gamble now more than he has in the past and he now loses his gambles more often. Sam Shields is an elite cover corner but just gets physically dominated at times. If he wants top dollar he's going to have to add some muscle and toughness to his frame.

Across the entire defense; the biggest improvements to my eyes are the defensive line's stoutness against the run and Brad Jones all round game. But a red herring has to be not enough sacks from the front 7 outside of Clay Matthews in the 1st 3 games of the season.

In fact the front 7 of the Packers outside of Clay Matthews have two sacks through 3 games and one of them is where the QB just ran out of bounds short of the line of scrimmage and the closest Packer player Jolly received credit for a sack.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Packers held the Bengals to 119 yards in the first half when Matthews was in the game and 80 of those yards were on the first drive of the game. Giving up a total of 30 yards for the next 25 minutes of the game is dominant. Perry has been disappointing to this point this year and Jones is still learning the game. Yet again, this defense looks like it's going to be reliant solely on Matthews to generate pressure.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Packers held the Bengals to 119 yards in the first half when Matthews was in the game and 80 of those yards were on the first drive of the game. Giving up a total of 30 yards for the next 25 minutes of the game is dominant. Perry has been disappointing to this point this year and Jones is still learning the game. Yet again, this defense looks like it's going to be reliant solely on Matthews to generate pressure.

I agree with you on the Matthews and getting pressure. I just DO NOT understand why they have him rushing from one spot all the damn time. He was much more dominateing when he was allowed to "roam" and come from any angle HE chose. I have seen none of that this season at all. If I know where the enemy is coming from time after time, I can set up to counter his attack......if the enemy is coming from an unknown direction there is less you can do to counter the attack.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I agree with you on the Matthews and getting pressure. I just DO NOT understand why they have him rushing from one spot all the damn time. He was much more dominateing when he was allowed to "roam" and come from any angle HE chose. I have seen none of that this season at all. If I know where the enemy is coming from time after time, I can set up to counter his attack......if the enemy is coming from an unknown direction there is less you can do to counter the attack.

Mathews gets plenty of pressure when he's not moved around, why mess with a winning strategy? Plus, let Perry figure out and pass rush moves on one side of the field before moving him all around; if you move Matthews then the other OLBs have to move as well. So far Perry hasn't shown much, if any, pass rush from one side of the field, let's not clutter his plate any more.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Mathews gets plenty of pressure when he's not moved around, why mess with a winning strategy? Plus, let Perry figure out and pass rush moves on one side of the field before moving him all around; if you move Matthews then the other OLBs have to move as well. So far Perry hasn't shown much, if any, pass rush from one side of the field, let's not clutter his plate any more.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4

First of all, he has NOT been getting "plenty of pleasure". He has 2 sacks in 3 games so far, hardly "plenty of pressure". OLB Justin Houston from KC has 7.5 so far, now THAT is pressure. What you have said in NOT the "winning strategy", it called the same OL' **** over and over from capers. And how can you even say " let perry figure it out"....wtf?? So, by that...CM3 and his plenty of pressure is just supposed to wait around till someone "figures it out" ? No friggin way. What you said makes NO sense. I played football for 12 years, if you have a LB that could get mad pressure and had play reading skills like CM3 does, you let that mad man come at the enemy from where ever HE wants to. Keeping him in the same spot allows the other teams TE,RB or whom ever is designated to help block him....and with our weak pass rush, nobody else has been getting to the QB or even much pressure.

 

[ivo610]

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