a 5th rounder

[Dantés]

I grew up watching Lynn ****ey and I was younger and didnt follow the team to the depth I do now as I was playing football myself but Wolf started the whole thing and took us out of purgatory. Got Favre and made some big moves getting Reggie White obviously and used free agency much more there with Holmgren bringing guys in. When Holmgren left things changed a bit. The money situation was obviously different back then and Wolf was battling a whole different set of cirumstances then Thompson. TT hasnt had to deal with all the challenges Wolf did.

Wolf would tell ya he left super bowls on the table with Favre.

Ok, so do you view him in the same light as Thompson? Because the amount of actual measurable success is basically identical. I can see how a guy might have a preference one way or another for whatever reasons, but if one was good then it doesn't add up to call the other a failure.

 

[brandon2348]

Ok, so do you view him in the same light as Thompson? Because the amount of actual measurable success is basically identical. I can see how a guy might have a preference one way or another for whatever reasons, but if one was good then it doesn't add up to call the other a failure.

I would put Wolf in a brighter light just because he had to deal with Green Bay being a much more difficult sale back then along with the $ and along with him "reviving" a franchise under those conditions. I mean the team hadn't won a super bowl in 30 years.

I never called Thompson a failure. I said that he had a nice run and had his chance to "cement greatness". I stated that I think he should step down and let someone else that gives us a better chance to maximize the years Rodgers has left take the helm. Someone with some more creative ideas and more willing to take some calculated risks. You got Elliot Wolf sitting there salivating. Heck, I can't believe I'm saying this but I would take John Schneider right now.

I think if TT stays in there after all the heartbreak and continues his current tatics he could tarnish whats left for him. This isnt a kneejerk reaction and I dont think there headed in the right direction. I'd love to believe them but I just dont.

 

[rodell330]

Ron Wolfe took the Packers to back to back SB's while winning one. TT hasn't sniffed back to back SB's with arguably the best Player in football. If Ron Wolfe was GM I'd be willing to bet anything Rodgers and the Packers have at least another SB. Wolfe didn't believe in waiting for guys to develop into players while Favre was in his prime.

 

[Dantés]

Ron Wolfe took the Packers to back to back SB's while winning one. TT hasn't sniffed back to back SB's with arguably the best Player in football. If Ron Wolfe was GM I'd be willing to bet anything Rodgers and the Packers have at least another SB. Wolfe didn't believe in waiting for guys to develop into players while Favre was in his prime.

And yet, same winning %, same number of playoff wins, some number of championships....

 

[brandon2348]

And yet, same winning %, same number of playoff wins, some number of championships....

Great. Lets send TT over to Cleveland and see if he can revive that franchise and win a Super Bowl.

I'd say fat chance and no way no how the way he has been "rolling the dice" over recent years.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/ted-thompson-his-last-five-green-bay-packers-drafts-are-defensive-misery-013117?amp=true

Geez, if anyone needs to be using free agency its TT.

 

[Dantés]

Great. Lets send TT over to Cleveland and see if he can revive that franchise and win a Super Bowl.

I'd say fat chance and no way no how the way he has been "rolling the dice" over recent years.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/ted-thompson-his-last-five-green-bay-packers-drafts-are-defensive-misery-013117?amp=true

Send TT to Cleveland? That literally has nothing to do with anything.

 

[brandon2348]

Send TT to Cleveland? That literally has nothing to do with anything.

Yes it does because thats about how difficult it was for Ron Wolfe to turn the Packer franchise around. In fact Cleveland wouldnt be as hard as what Wolfe did.

TT walked into a way better situation then Wolfe with way more resources at his disposal. IMO he has the better of the two QB's too and was able to move Rodgers along slow while he had Favre.

 

[Dantés]

Yes it does because thats about how difficult it was for Ron Wolfe to turn the Packer franchise around. In fact Cleveland wouldnt be as hard as what Wolfe did.

TT walked into a way better situation then Wolfe with way more resources at his disposal. IMO he has the better of the two QB's too and was able to move Rodgers along slow while he had Favre.

Wolf took over a team that had gone 66-86 over the 10 years prior to his arrival.

Cleveland has gone 48-112 over the last 10 years.

Certainly Wolf wasn't walking into a bed of roses, and if you give him extra credit for that I think that's fair enough. But to say it was as bad (or worse) than Cleveland is extreme.

I think you're right that TT has the better QB, though obviously both are HOF'ers. But TT is also the one who found that QB. So while it raises the expectations, he also gets credit for finding him.

Again, I think it makes sense if you have preferences, but with near identical resumes it doesn't make sense to hold one well above the other.

 

[Mondio]

another Ted and Ron debate. Listen to the words Ron has said, even though he was obviously more active in the FA market getting Dotson, White, etc, he has also said you build your team thru scouting and drafting and it is the very most important thing. He also said when he had to start asking if they could afford a player rather than if they could use that player it was time to go. He himself has stated that he did not want to maintain teams with the constraints of the cap and that it has added a layer of difficulty to today's GM's. So while his initial task may have been bigger, he was much more free to do so as well.

We were lucky to have both as GM's of the Packers.

 

[Half Empty]

How do you remember Ron Wolf's run with the Packers?

First as being the guy who ended the Gory Years. Then, as the guy who couldn't do it again after his SB win.

 

[brandon2348]

Again, I think it makes sense if you have preferences, but with near identical resumes it doesn't make sense to hold one well above the other.

January 18th, 2015. That looks real shinny there on the old "resume". In fact the glare of it hides most of the page.

That will be looked back at as the "turning point" as we continue down this road.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

January 18th, 2015. That looks real shinny there on the old "resume". In fact the glare of it hides most of the page.

That will be looked back at as the "turning point" as we continue down this road.

Who's resume are you referring to? Sean Slocum's? Brandon Bostick's? Capers? MM's?

If you are in some way picking that date as a big shiny black mark on TT's resume, you may want to rethink that. I mean I have read a whole lot about who to blame for that loss, because there was a lot to go around, but you are the first, that I have read, to blame Ted Thompson.

 

[brandon2348]

Who's resume are you referring to? Sean Slocum's? Brandon Bostick's? Capers? MM's?

If you are in some way picking that date as a big shiny black mark on TT's resume, you may want to rethink that. I mean I have read a whole lot about who to blame for that loss, because there was a lot to go around, but you are the first, that I have read, to blame Ted Thompson.

He is the GM and responsible for all those in place ultimately . Its a two way street and you cant have it both ways. If your gonna use all the great things the Packers have done while in charge then you have to take the bad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not saying this to give TT or MM a free pass every year, but I wonder if John Schneider and Pete Carroll are despised so much by part of the Seahawks fan base? Or will it take that organization another 3 years, before fans are burning those 2 at the stake?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He is the GM and responsible for all those in place ultimately . Its a two way street and you cant have it both ways. If your gonna use all the great things the Packers have done while in charge then you have to take the bad.

I see your logic, take a game like that NFCCG loss and blame/fire the GM. I can see your team having a new GM every year with that policy.

 

[brandon2348]

I see your logic, take a game like that NFCCG loss and blame/fire the GM. I can see your team having a new GM every year with that policy.

I was actually at the game as I lived in Seattle at the time and let me just say I have never experienced anything like that in all my years of watching, playing or coaching football. I really can't put into words the emotion of the whole thing. I really dont care to relive it any further to ruin my day. I brought it up to prove a point because some people on here think TT is "Gods Gift to Football" and he isnt.

Once again I'm not on here every year saying fire TT and blah blah. Things will appear more clearly in the next few years.

 

[brandon2348]

I'm not saying this to give TT or MM a free pass every year, but I wonder if John Schneider and Pete Carroll are despised so much by part of the Seahawks fan base? Or will it take that organization another 3 years, before fans are burning those 2 at the stake?

Some are already freaking out over there but they dont have Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Pkrjones]

The cap spending in '17, so far, is offense $74.77Mil and defense $48.05Mil. Of that CM3 accounts for almost 1/3 of that spending on D. Only 47 players under contract & counting towards those #'s.

TT NEEDS to spend $ on the defensive side of the ball. IMHO it doesn't have to be even 48% offense/48% defense (ST 2-4%)... but the D needs help and he's got to spend some $$ to shore-up CB & OLB positions.

I'm suggesting re-signing Cook & Lang and cutting CM3 but that would DRASTICALLY throw off that O/D spending balance, so don't believe any of those 3 will happen. FA additions at OLB & CB seem necessary, though, to at least improve the talent level.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I was actually at the game as I lived in Seattle at the time and let me just say I have never experienced anything like that in all my years of watching, playing or coaching football. I really can't put into words the emotion of the whole thing. I really dont care to relive it any further to ruin my day. I brought it up to prove a point because some people on here think TT is "Gods Gift to Football" and he isnt.

Once again I'm not on here every year saying fire TT and blah blah. Things will appear more clearly in the next few years.

I understand your pain, but sighting that one game as a major black mark in TT's resume, doesn't really do much for me. I'm not here to preach that TT is god, I think most here know his short comings, but really hard to fault the GM for losing that NFCCG against the Seahawks. Now if you want to talk about THIS year and the beat down the Falcons put on the Packers and TT's part in THAT, I am all ears.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The cap spending in '17, so far, is offense $74.77Mil and defense $48.05Mil. Of that CM3 accounts for almost 1/3 of that spending on D. Only 47 players under contract & counting towards those #'s.

TT NEEDS to spend $ on the defensive side of the ball. IMHO it doesn't have to be even 48% offense/48% defense (ST 2-4%)... but the D needs help and he's got to spend some $$ to shore-up CB & OLB positions.

I'm suggesting re-signing Cook & Lang and cutting CM3 but that would DRASTICALLY throw off that O/D spending balance, so don't believe any of those 3 will happen. FA additions at OLB & CB seem necessary, though, to at least improve the talent level.

Cutting or trading Cobb has been tossed around, how would that change the balance? While I would be in favor of keeping Cobb for at least another year, due to his dead cap hit, it sure would be nice to restructure both his and Clay's contracts, but I doubt either will happen.

 

[Pkrjones]

... it sure would be nice to restructure both his (Cobb) and Clay's contracts, but I doubt either will happen.

Both guys have played hurt AND do whatever is needed... think asking for significant pay cut would be worse than cutting them.

If Cobb gets cut to save $6Mil ($6Mil dead money) on cap AND Jordy goes down again this offense would be in a REALLY bad place, IMHO. I'd keep Cobb for '17, at least.
CM3's cap hit is just too huge vs. production/availability, IMHO, but TT would need to rebuild the OLB position completely with both FA & draft.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Both guys have played hurt AND do whatever is needed... think asking for significant pay cut would be worse than cutting them.

If Cobb gets cut to save $6Mil ($6Mil dead money) on cap AND Jordy goes down again this offense would be in a REALLY bad place, IMHO. I'd keep Cobb for '17, at least.
CM3's cap hit is just too huge vs. production/availability, IMHO, but TT would need to rebuild the OLB position completely with both FA & draft.

I agree with you, people tossing Cobb's name around as a "cut" to save cap aren't seeing the big picture. I only tossed it out because I have read about it as a possible offseason move, one I would prefer to see in 2018 if the situation warrants it.

I'm a bit on the fence with Clay. While saving almost $11M sounds great, if you don't resign Perry, it could be disastrous to cut Matthews. If Perry isn't resigned and Clay won't restructure for the good of the team, you almost have to ride it out and hope 2017 sees a less injured, more productive Clay.

I don't think either players are like Josh Sitton, where TT has a guy he thinks will be equally productive for less money, waiting in the wings.

 

[brandon2348]

I understand your pain, but sighting that one game as a major black mark in TT's resume, doesn't really do much for me. I'm not here to preach that TT is god, I think most here know his short comings, but really hard to fault the GM for losing that NFCCG against the Seahawks. Now if you want to talk about THIS year and the beat down the Falcons put on the Packers and TT's part in THAT, I am all ears.

Whether fair or unfair TT is part of that loss. I could point to other loses but things really havent been the same since they lost that game other then some "hail mary's" and Aaron Rodgers going on a tear like no other.

I went into the Atlanta game not feeling as near as confident as Seattle Champ game. The defense had no chance and got embarassed once again. The fumble by Rip was the end of that thing. I am a little more compassionate to that loss because of the run they had been on and not throwing in the towel when they could of when at 4-6. They overachieved along with Rodgers playing some of his best football which brings me to the point that the current talent moving forward just isnt there to finish this thing off and that once again falls on TT.

There is a serious mess right now on defense and untill he comes out of his stubborn shell and does some new things to fix it I dont see them winning another Super Bowl with him. I hope i am wrong and he does fix it but once again wont believe it untill I see it because I can only go on how he has gone about things.

I mean you could throw A. Rodge on the Kansas City Chiefs right now and start "stacking the trophy case".

 

[brandon2348]

Both guys have played hurt AND do whatever is needed... think asking for significant pay cut would be worse than cutting them.

If Cobb gets cut to save $6Mil ($6Mil dead money) on cap AND Jordy goes down again this offense would be in a REALLY bad place, IMHO. I'd keep Cobb for '17, at least.
CM3's cap hit is just too huge vs. production/availability, IMHO, but TT would need to rebuild the OLB position completely with both FA & draft.

Cobb isnt going anywhere. When is the last time TT swallowed any significant dead money?

This is why Matthews will be back as well.

There is a reason some call him "Tight *** Ted"

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There is a reason some call him "Tight *** Ted"

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