a 5th rounder

[Half Empty]

you're so shortsighted it probably doesn't even pay to respond. 2011 or so was a not so good draft, but what isn't to like about is "recent years" you think Lacy, BahkT and Hyde were a bad draft? I know lacy seems lazy, everyone on earth so why he was drafted and what he can do. and if Datone wasn't so damn inconsistent that draft would have been bordering on great. BUt as it stands, just a franchise left tackle makes it pretty dang good.

you think a draft that gets you Ha Ha, a sure handed TE, Adams and your starting center is falling short? just WTF are you're expectations? It's way too early to say anything about 2015 and we all saw the 1st two picks play much better as rookies than they did as injured 2nd year players. Maybe they don't make it, maybe they end up pretty good. Jury is still out. Not in your mind I realize, but Shields, Tramon and Collins didn't look like the players they became until years 3 and 4. If R and R look the same next year I'll be worried. But besides them they got Ripkowski, Montgomery and a starting ILB in Ryan. Again, what are your expectations in a draft? already 3 bonafide NFL players paying dividends and most likely at least 1 more, as I fully expect either randall or Rollins to bounce back strong. What happens to this draft class if it's both?

if it's too early to draw conclusions from 2015, it's definitely too early to draw conclusions from last years, though I'd say Clark is going to get much better. he's still younger than most of the guys available in THIS years draft and he was flashing already at the end of last year. Spriggs looks the part, Lowery came on better near the end and should at the very least be a good rotation guy. Martinez had some good and bad, but i think mostly did at least an average job stepping in as a rookie starter before injuries kind of derailed his season. Lots left to be determined out of this draft though.

so since Ted is falling short, what's a good draft in your eyes? 4 rookie all pro's? and then point me to the GM that's doing that every year LOL

And yet, a four paragraph response.

 

[PackerDNA]

Looks like my snippiness and all around pissyness of the last few days is contagious!

 

[brandon2348]

you're so shortsighted it probably doesn't even pay to respond. 2011 or so was a not so good draft, but what isn't to like about is "recent years" you think Lacy, BahkT and Hyde were a bad draft? I know lacy seems lazy, everyone on earth so why he was drafted and what he can do. and if Datone wasn't so damn inconsistent that draft would have been bordering on great. BUt as it stands, just a franchise left tackle makes it pretty dang good.

you think a draft that gets you Ha Ha, a sure handed TE, Adams and your starting center is falling short? just WTF are you're expectations? It's way too early to say anything about 2015 and we all saw the 1st two picks play much better as rookies than they did as injured 2nd year players. Maybe they don't make it, maybe they end up pretty good. Jury is still out. Not in your mind I realize, but Shields, Tramon and Collins didn't look like the players they became until years 3 and 4. If R and R look the same next year I'll be worried. But besides them they got Ripkowski, Montgomery and a starting ILB in Ryan. Again, what are your expectations in a draft? already 3 bonafide NFL players paying dividends and most likely at least 1 more, as I fully expect either randall or Rollins to bounce back strong. What happens to this draft class if it's both?

if it's too early to draw conclusions from 2015, it's definitely too early to draw conclusions from last years, though I'd say Clark is going to get much better. he's still younger than most of the guys available in THIS years draft and he was flashing already at the end of last year. Spriggs looks the part, Lowery came on better near the end and should at the very least be a good rotation guy. Martinez had some good and bad, but i think mostly did at least an average job stepping in as a rookie starter before injuries kind of derailed his season. Lots left to be determined out of this draft though.

so since Ted is falling short, what's a good draft in your eyes? 4 rookie all pro's? and then point me to the GM that's doing that every year LOL

I don't know how other to respond to all this other then TT hasnt been drafting any better then anyone else in recent years.

My post was "implying" that when you use the draft as your only real life line for bringing in talent that you need to do much better then he is doing. You can obviously disagree.

You can also run around with your TT poms poms on but I've taken mine off. I have always pretty much backed what TT has done but I've seen enough. Tired of the same old lame excuses. IMO this thing could get headed in the wrong direction real quick.

I'm not rooting against TT but dont have much faith he has the capacity to make the changes needed. Time to go with someone else. Probably should of done it two years ago in hindsight.

 

[Half Empty]

Looks like my snippiness and all around pissyness of the last few days is contagious!

It's 'dead' time for pro football talk. Might as well watch some verbal jousting.

 

[Dantés]

I don't know how other to respond to all this other then TT hasnt been drafting any better then anyone else in recent years.

I'm not going to go to the mat trying to convince people to love TT. Even as someone who views him in a positive light, I believe he must either use FA more frequently or get out of the way.

But that said, this statement is demonstrably false and illustrates why, in my opinion, many Packer fans have unrealistic expectations: they're out of touch with the rest of the league.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But that said, this statement is demonstrably false and illustrates why, in my opinion, many Packer fans have unrealistic expectations: they're out of touch with the rest of the league.

While Thompson was the best general manager in the league at drafting players early during his tenure it's true that he has been only slightly above average over the past six seasons though.

 

[Dantés]

While Thompson was the best general manager in the league at drafting players early during his tenure it's true that he has been only slightly above average over the past six seasons though.

Even if your opinion is that he's only been slightly above average, that's a far cry from "not any better than anyone else," which in essence is to say he's been the worst. Ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Even if your opinion is that he's only been slightly above average, that's a far cry from "not any better than anyone else," which in essence is to say he's been the worst. Ridiculous.

Unfortunately Thompson drafting slightly above the league average isn't good enough because of his reluctancy to use other methods to improve the roster.

 

[Dantés]

No, as opposed to folks touting TT because of the two guys he did draft there. Cherry-picking vs. "a blind pig".

I wasn't cherry picking. I was pointing out how stupid the parody account's joke was and that 5th round comp picks can be useful. But if you think that Thompson's success in the middle to late rounds is "blind pig" then I can't help you. He's been significantly better at that than most of the league for a long time.

 

[Dantés]

Unfortunately Thompson drafting slightly above the league average isn't good enough because of his reluctancy to use other methods to improve the roster.

I feel like we end at least 75% of our discussions on this point. I agree. Which is why I never argue with those who say he must use FA more aggressively. But I will continue to argue with those who ignore his track record and act like he's a total moron/failure.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But I will continue to argue with those who ignore his track record and act like he's a total moron/failure.

Overall there's no doubt Thompson has been successful as the Packers general manager. I don't consider him as a great one though as he hasn't won more championships while benefitting from having a generational talent at quarterback in Rodgers (he deserves a ton of credit for drafting him) for most of his tenure.

 

[brandon2348]

I feel like we end at least 75% of our discussions on this point. I agree. Which is why I never argue with those who say he must use FA more aggressively. But I will continue to argue with those who ignore his track record and act like he's a total moron/failure.

This has nothing to do with "love".He isnt a total moron or a failure. He has had a great career. He won a Super Bowl and drafted Aaron Rodgers. Those are all great things.

I just think the game has passed him by and he is dead set on drafting a certain type of player all to often. Then you throw in his stubborness and unwillingness to change.

Its okay to make some mistakes but learn from them and make changes. I almost think that even now with this team needing some fresh talent more then ever he will turn his back on using free agency other then just his normal pawn move.. Probably because using it just might work and everyone will say "why the hell havent you been doing this the whole time now" and blame him and he will look like a failure. I believe he is that stubborn.

 

[PackerDNA]

Overall there's no doubt Thompson has been successful as the Packers general manager. I don't consider him as a great one though as he hasn't won more championships while benefitting from having a generational talent at quarterback (for which he deserves a ton of credit) for most of his tenure.

And that he doesn't 'use all the tools'; you could make a case that he's a part time GM, or give him a grade of incomplete.
But to say he's not a good GM, or that he hasn't done a good job is wrong. To say he's an incompetent imbecile is way off the reservation.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And that he doesn't 'use all the tools'; you could make a case that he's a part time GM, or give him a grade of incomplete.

Thompson is an awesome college talent evaluator but I'm not convinced he has all the tools necessary to be a great general manager in the NFL.

 

[PackerDNA]

Thompson is an awesome college talent evaluator but I'm not convinced he has all the tools necessary to be a great general manager in the NFL.

My 'all the tools' was in regards to FA, trades, etc;...things other than the draft.
But you could have a point; he does seem stiff necked and bullheaded too often.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Trust the process?

 

[Poppa San]

.... I was pointing out how stupid the parody account's joke was and that 5th round comp picks can be useful. But if you think that Thompson's success in the middle to late rounds is "blind pig" then I can't help you. He's been significantly better at that than most of the league for a long time.

Don't forget other 5th round gems:

Several of these had/have decent careers, just not always in GB. Some lost out to injuries.
Coston Started 7 games over three years
Hawkins <a href="https://www.packerforum.com/threads/cb-mike-hawkins-released.6408/#post-97595">CB Mike Hawkins Released</a>
Martin
Moll Career G-63 GS-22 https://www.packerforum.com/threads/tony-moll-steps-in-at-right-tackle-shuts-down-pass-rush.7549/
Clowney Had a 4 year career with the Jets on special teams
Giacomini Full time starter 3 of the past 5 seasons. http://www.nfl.com/player/brenogiacomini/758/profile
Johnson 5 year career as a blocking fullback. Couldn't beat out Kuhn here.
Meredith 9 year career isn't a whiff http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MereJa20.htm
Newhouse Still a spot starter with a playoff team
Quarless 6 year career most likely ended with a knee injury which slowed a slow player
---
The rest have either no defense or no track record:
Williams, Manning, Boyd, Abbrederis, Hundley, Davis
5th round picks are very rarely diamonds; more often special teamers or jags. Looks like TT should stick to OL in the 5th round though. His picks there at least become journeymen if not better.

 

[brandon2348]

Trust the process?

I trust Aaron Rodgers and his ability to make enough plays for this team to somehow make the playoffs and thats about it at this point.

And as I've posted this this thing could head in the wrong direction real quick. If this defense cant keep other teams under 30 pts and Rodgers has to play at a "Micahel Jordan level" every single week they will continue to run out of luck like they have been.

I dont trust TT with really anything at this point other then scouting WR's.

 

[Dantés]

I trust Aaron Rodgers and his ability to make enough plays for this team to somehow make the playoffs and thats about it at this point.

And as I've posted this this thing could head in the wrong direction real quick. If this defense cant keep other teams under 30 pts and Rodgers has to play at a "Micahel Jordan level" every single week they will continue to run out of luck like they have been.

I dont trust TT with really anything at this point other then scouting WR's.

I understand that Aaron Rodgers being Aaron Rodgers is the biggest thing GB has going, but this is another argument I see all the time that just isn't true. The defense was bad on the balance of the entire season, but they held opponents under 20 six times. So obviously Rodgers didn't have to set the world on fire every week to win.

I'd add that TT has put together one of the best offensive lines in the league with only one 1st rounder.

 

[brandon2348]

I understand that Aaron Rodgers being Aaron Rodgers is the biggest thing GB has going, but this is another argument I see all the time that just isn't true. The defense was bad on the balance of the entire season, but they held opponents under 20 six times. So obviously Rodgers didn't have to set the world on fire every week to win.

I'd add that TT has put together one of the best offensive lines in the league with only one 1st rounder.

Okay lets go to the post game press conferenece after the Atlanta playoff loss. What did Aaron Rodgers say?

He said it would of been nice to have a bye and sleep in his own bed.

The defense had a few nice performnaces but was far from consistent enough overall for this team to get a bye and host the Falcons at the Frozen Tundra.

The O-line is where i see a great job of development although well see what free agency has to say about that moving forward.

 

[Dantés]

Okay lets go to the post game press conferenece after the Atlanta playoff loss. What did Aaron Rodgers say?

He said it would of been nice to have a bye and sleep in his own bed.

The defense had a few nice performnaces but was far from consistent enough overall for this team to get a bye and host the Falcons at the Frozen Tundra.

The O-line is where i see a great job of development although well see what free agency has to say about that moving forward.

Ok, but this is something entirely different from Rodgers having to play at a "Michael Jordan" level every week to win.

So TT gets no credit for finding good starting OL in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds?

 

[McKnowledge]

Thompson has to finally stop worrying about compensatory picks down the road but improve the team for next season.

I completely agree. Go for Veterans. One year deals or 1 + 1yr option. Go for the ring. Spend money. Use top three picks on immediate contributors. Draft "projects" in the later rounds. I wish Thompson would grow a pair or get a jockstrap to lift the old ones up. Age + experience doesn't always = success. Gotta be bold this year with the Green and Gold.

 

[brandon2348]

Ok, but this is something entirely different from Rodgers having to play at a "Michael Jordan" level every week to win.

So TT gets no credit for finding good starting OL in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds?

No its not entirely different. If he has to go out and put up 30-40 points to win enough games to give them the best chance of going to the super bowl then No. Are you having amnesia from Oct 16th - Nov 20th other then Chicago? How can you back a pass defense that was dead last? Even during "the run" they tried to make games interesting that were prettry much over other then Seattle, Philly and Houston. This defense also tried to cough up the Dallas game and got ran off the field in Atlanta. Go back and watch the tape as its even more painful the second time around.

Ive posted about the only real place Ive seen any development recently is the OL a couple of times along with the receivong corp. Of course TT gets credit for this. I dont have any problem with the offense. Lets make that clear.

What I do have a problem with is drafting defense over and over and still getting not so good results.

The bottom line on all of this is if your not gonna use free agency to plug holes and build depth along the roster your gonna have to draft guys that can play and play well immediately which TT hasnt done on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Dantés]

No its not entirely different. If he has to go out and put up 30-40 points to win enough games to give them the best chance of going to the super bowl then No. Are you having amnesia from Oct 16th - Nov 20th other then Chicago? How can you back a pass defense that was dead last? Even during "the run" they tried to make games interesting that were prettry much over other then Seattle, Philly and Houston. This defense also tried to cough up the Dallas game and got ran off the field in Atlanta. Go back and watch the tape as its even more painful the second time around.

Ive posted about the only real place Ive seen any development recently is the OL a couple of times along with the receivong corp. Of course TT gets credit for this. I dont have any problem with the offense. Lets make that clear.

What I do have a problem with is drafting defense over and over and still getting not so good results.

The bottom line on all of this is if your not gonna use free agency to plug holes and build depth along the roster your gonna have to draft guys that can play and play well immediately which TT hasnt done on the defensive side of the ball.

It is actually quite different. You initially said that Rodgers has to play at that level "every single week." That's not true. There were several games last season where he did not. Which in no way means I don't think Rodgers is absolutey vital or the defense isn't lousy overall.

You also said the only thing you give TT credit for is WR's.

I can only read what you write. If you change your mind or mean something else, fine.

 

[Poppa San]

Go for Veterans. One year deals or 1 + 1yr option. Go for the ring. Spend money.

Age + experience doesn't always = success.

Which one is it?