a 5th rounder

[brandon2348]

Yeah, I think his true calling will come after all this in "Accounting"
He'd be phenomenal.

lol

 

[kevans74]

that was a good meme with the TT hat haha

Cobb won't get cut, and why should he, he's obviously overpaid like Clay but even if they're "cut" they will be resigned to team friendly deals

Cobb fits what the Packers NEED/WANT to do on offense, you stick him INSIDE and have him work the short/intermediate routes and work INSIDE. Who else do you play there besides Cook?

Jordy and Adams on the OUTside and Cook and Cobb on the INSIDE when receivers are spread out... you could sign Alshon Jeffrey to do the same thing, and he might arguably do it better, but that's predicting

Clay should take a cut but he won't be leaving because even though he is overpaid, he still makes plays atleast

 

[Dantés]

The case against TT in the Wolf/Thompson debate is almost entirely theoretical.

"If X team had Rodgers then..."

"If Wolf had had Rodgers then..."

"If TT took over the Browns then..."

Totally weak. It's just a bunch of made up assertions.

The facts are that both had HOF quarterbacks, identical winning %, identical # of PO wins, and identical # of championships.

The hypotheticals are necessary only because many fans need to invent reasons to give credit to Wolf while still bashing Thompson.

You give Wolf the edge for turning around a mediocre franchise? Fine. You give Wolf this huge edge where he was great but Thompson is good only for being ridiculed? Nonsense.

 

[brandon2348]

The case against TT in the Wolf/Thompson debate is almost entirely theoretical.

"If X team had Rodgers then..."

"If Wolf had had Rodgers then..."

"If TT took over the Browns then..."

Totally weak. It's just a bunch of made up assertions.

The facts are that both had HOF quarterbacks, identical winning %, identical # of PO wins, and identical # of championships.

The hypotheticals are necessary only because many fans need to invent reasons to give credit to Wolf while still bashing Thompson.

You give Wolf the edge for turning around a mediocre franchise? Fine. You give Wolf this huge edge where he was great but Thompson is good only for being ridiculed? Nonsense.

Lets just get down to the nitty gritty then. Everyone talks about "value". What is TT's value to the Packers right now? We know he can GM and run a team and all that but what can TT do or does he offer at this point of the game to get the Packers back to the Super Bowl?

I dont want to hear experience because his last 5 drafts are suspect especially on defense.

 

[brandon2348]

that was a good meme with the TT hat haha

Cobb won't get cut, and why should he, he's obviously overpaid like Clay but even if they're "cut" they will be resigned to team friendly deals

Cobb fits what the Packers NEED/WANT to do on offense, you stick him INSIDE and have him work the short/intermediate routes and work INSIDE. Who else do you play there besides Cook?

I dont have a problem with Cobb but it would be nice to scoop up a 4.3 burner like Carlos Henderson "A YAC Monster" out of LA Tech to add a whole new dimension which would make Cobb expendable obvioulsy.

Problem is with the way TT has this whole thing set up there are to many other needs and they wont be able to draft him.

 

[Dantés]

Lets just get down to the nitty gritty then. Everyone talks about "value". What is TT's value to the Packers right now? We know he can GM and run a team and all that but what can TT do or does he offer at this point of the game to get the Packers back to the Super Bowl?

I dont want to hear experience because his last 5 drafts are suspect especially on defense.

What he offers is still being one of the best drafting GM's in football. We don't have enough service time to make a fair assessment of 2015 and 2016. But in 2014 he brought in Clinton-Dix, Adams, Linsley, and Rodgers among a few other guys who have made contributions here and there. In 2013 he drafted Bakhtiari, Hyde, Tretter, and Lacy. Even with Jones being a bust of a first round pick, he has played a role and overall the class has produced nice value. In 2012, it was Perry, Hayward, and Daniels.

These are really nice results compared to what's typical league wide.

So what he brings is what he's always brought-- consistent draft results and keeping his own key players.

What he isn't bringing and needs to is the same old gripe-- he doesn't supplement the roster with FA's.

 

[PackerDNA]

What he offers is still being one of the best drafting GM's in football. We don't have enough service time to make a fair assessment of 2015 and 2016. But in 2014 he brought in Clinton-Dix, Adams, Linsley, and Rodgers among a few other guys who have made contributions here and there. In 2013 he drafted Bakhtiari, Hyde, Tretter, and Lacy. Even with Jones being a bust of a first round pick, he has played a role and overall the class has produced nice value. In 2012, it was Perry, Hayward, and Daniels.

These are really nice results compared to what's typical league wide.

So what he brings is what he's always brought-- consistent draft results and keeping his own key players.

What he isn't bringing and needs to is the same old gripe-- he doesn't supplement the roster with FA's.

Like the old lady used to say in the Wendy's commercial, "Where's the beef?"
Lots of role players and second tier guys. Where are the impact players?

 

[Dantés]

Like the old lady used to say in the Wendy's commercial, "Where's the beef?"
Lots of role players and second tier guys. Where are the impact players?

Clinton-Dix, Adams, Linsley, Bakhtiari, Tretter, Lacy, and Daniels are all starters above average or better when healthy. Hyde isn't technically a starter, but the 5th DB plays starter snaps today and he's better than average in that role. If finding good starters with that kind regularity when constantly picking towards the back end isn't good enough for you, then you're likely not ever going to be satisfied.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Like the old lady used to say in the Wendy's commercial, "Where's the beef?"
Lots of role players and second tier guys. Where are the impact players?

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[PackerDNA]

Clinton-Dix, Adams, Linsley, Bakhtiari, Tretter, Lacy, and Daniels are all starters above average or better when healthy. Hyde isn't technically a starter, but the 5th DB plays starter snaps today and he's better than average in that role. If finding good starters with that kind regularity when constantly picking towards the back end isn't good enough for you, then you're likely not ever going to be satisfied.

Bak is one of the top LT's in the league. Daniels is above average most of the time, until he fades. He also plays a position easier to neutralize than say. pass rushing OLB. Again, no impact players, no game changers, nobody elite.

 

[Dantés]

Bak is one of the top LT's in the league. Daniels is above average most of the time, until he fades. He also plays a position easier to neutralize than say. pass rushing OLB. Again, no impact players, no game changers, nobody elite.

All of those guys listed are above average or better compared to the rest of the league. Your standards for what constitutes a good draft are unrealistic. They also don't make sense. It's well documented that TT doesn't use FA and relies almost solely on the draft. So given that reality and the success of the Packers, how in the world could anyone argue that he's a not a great draft guy? He's built one of the most consistently good teams in the entire league over the span of a decade using almost nothing else.

 

[PackerDNA]

*sigh* Whatever. Be happy with mediocrity and just making the playoffs- until you don't. Anyone who points out anything that doesn't praise TT or claims the Packers are the greatest is unrealistic, a hater, etc etc.
It's gotten boring.

 

[brandon2348]

What he offers is still being one of the best drafting GM's in football. We don't have enough service time to make a fair assessment of 2015 and 2016.

Im not feeling good about 2015 or 2016 at all. Looks like more potential early round busts, "Randall, Rollins" and more role players to the rescue, "Martinez, Ryan, Lowry" and the reach in "Frackrell".

Clark looks like the only one that might turn into something but well see.

I dont see one "game changer" in this whole group and I defintely dont see this group getting us to the promise land.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

All of those guys listed are above average or better compared to the rest of the league. Your standards for what constitutes a good draft are unrealistic. They also don't make sense. It's well documented that TT doesn't use FA and relies almost solely on the draft. So given that reality and the success of the Packers, how in the world could anyone argue that he's a not a great draft guy? He's built one of the most consistently good teams in the entire league over the span of a decade using almost nothing else.

How has that defense been during the majority of that span? The offense has been very good, but we all know why that is. He's surrounded Rodgers with a solid cast, but the quality of the players drop to Practice Squad-caliber once the starter goes down.

 

[Dantés]

How has that defense been during the majority of that span? The offense has been very good, but we all know why that is. He's surrounded Rodgers with a solid cast, but the quality of the players drop to Practice Squad-caliber once the starter goes down.

There are obviously more good players on offense.

Slews of injuries at certain positions cleaned out the depth in some cases. But at other positions, the depth was about as good as you could ask for. They lost their starting center and replaced him with a good player. Rodgers was a solid starting TE when Cook was out. Clark and Lowery were good rotational depth on the DL. The only place where they ended up with practice squad talent was corner, where the injuries were absurd.

 

[PackerDNA]

There are obviously more good players on offense.

Slews of injuries at certain positions cleaned out the depth in some cases. But at other positions, the depth was about as good as you could ask for. They lost their starting center and replaced him with a good player. Rodgers was a solid starting TE when Cook was out. Clark and Lowery were good rotational depth on the DL. The only place where they ended up with practice squad talent was corner, where the injuries were absurd.

Going into the 2015 season, the team had their entire offence under contract for at least the next two seasons. That's a pretty impressive accomplishment. Then injuries hit (Nelson, etc), the Sitton deal, and that offence was never on the field together for as much as one play. There's no real accounting for the Big X Factor- aka, injuries.

 

[sschind]

*sigh* Whatever. Be happy with mediocrity and just making the playoffs- until you don't. Anyone who points out anything that doesn't praise TT or claims the Packers are the greatest is unrealistic, a hater, etc etc.
It's gotten boring.

It works both ways. If you don't **** and moan that the Packers haven't won every SB since Ted took over and you are not calling for his head you are labeled a Ted lover who is happy with mediocrity and is completely satisfied with making the playoffs and losing. You are right, it has gotten boring.

 

[PackerDNA]

It works both ways. If you don't **** and moan that the Packers haven't won every SB since Ted took over and you are not calling for his head you are labeled a Ted lover who is happy with mediocrity and is completely satisfied with making the playoffs and losing. You are right, it has gotten boring.

The ironic thing- outside of the handful of extremists- is that posters in both camps are largely in agreement. it's just a matter of degrees with what they believe Ted should or shouldn't do, and how much of it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The ironic thing- outside of the handful of extremists- is that posters in both camps are largely in agreement. it's just a matter of degrees with what they believe Ted should or shouldn't do, and how much of it.

I think the same thing can be said about people's opinions of MM and Capers and I would guess, its a league wide phenomenon with most fan bases. But its human nature, we all don't see things the same way.

 

[Mondio]

I think the same thing can be said about people's opinions of MM and Capers and I would guess, its a league wide phenomenon with most fan bases. But its human nature, we all don't see things the same way.

That's because not many of you can be a ***** freaking genius like me bwahhhhhh

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If TT retired today, my strong suspicion is that his legacy with most football people would be a very great career with some missed opportunities. Somehow I can't see the 4th most wins in the league, a winning record in the PO's, and a championship over a 12 year tenure wouldn't be mocked as total garbage by those with some perspective.

I truly believe that most football peers would consider Thompson a good general manager whose reluctancy to use all methods available cost the Packers the chance to win more Super Bowls while having a generational talent at quarterback.

How do you remember Ron Wolf's run with the Packers?

Wolf mentioned something about a fart in the wind after the Packers lost their second Super Bowl with him as the GM.

The cap spending in '17, so far, is offense $74.77Mil and defense $48.05Mil. Of that CM3 accounts for almost 1/3 of that spending on D. Only 47 players under contract & counting towards those #'s.

TT NEEDS to spend $ on the defensive side of the ball.

The Packers spent more cap space on the defensive side of the ball ($76.2 million, sixth highest in the league) last season than on offense ($69.5 million, 15th) and have done it that way since at least 2013. As we've seen that doesn't guarantee being successful though.

 

[Pkrjones]

The Packers spent more cap space on the defensive side of the ball ($76.2 million, sixth highest in the league) last season than on offense ($69.5 million, 15th) and have done it that way since at least 2013. As we've seen that doesn't guarantee being successful though.

Approx. $30Mil of that $76.2Mil was on 3 OLB's (Peppers, CM3 & Perry)... if that money doesn't translate to BIG production then of course there will be problems.

IMHO this is why TT won't spend big $$ on Perry and CM3's shouldn't be on this year's 53 ($15Mil cap hit)... the production just doesn't justify the $$. In 2016: Peppers played 56% of D snaps and had 7.5 sacks (31st in NFL) & 2 forced fumbles. Perry played 58% of D snaps and had 11 sacks (tied for 8th in NFL) & 1 interception. CM3 played 46% of D snaps and had 5 sacks & 1 forced fumble. Does this production warrant $30Mil cap expenditure?

Not sure where the pass rush will come from but there are better ways to spend it than oft-injured CM3 & Perry. FYI ~ Fackrell played 15% of D snaps and had 2 sacks & 1 forced fumble... maybe with 10lbs of muscle (hopefully) added to his frame he'll be more stout and continue progressing to be a serviceable rotation OLB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Over $30Mil of that $76.2Mil was on 3 OLB's (Peppers, CM3 & Perry)... if that money doesn't translate to BIG production then of course there will be problems.

IMHO this is why TT won't spend big $$ on Perry and CM3's shouldn't be on this year's 53 ($15Mil cap hit)... the production just doesn't justify the $$. In 2016: Peppers played 56% of D snaps and had 7.5 sacks & 2 forced fumbles. Perry played 58% of D snaps and had 11 sacks & 1 interception. CM3 played 46% of D snaps and had 5 sacks & 1 forced fumble. Does this production warrant $30+Mil cap expenditure?

Not sure where the pass rush will come from but there are better ways to spend it than oft-injured CM3 & Perry. FYI ~ Fackrell played 15% of D snaps and had 2 sacks & 1 forced fumble... maybe with 10lbs of muscle (hopefully) added to his frame he'll be more stout and continue progressing to be a serviceable rotation OLB.

Absolutely agreed the outside linebacker position has to be addressed this offseason. I don't want to enter the free agency period next week with only Fackrell under contract as it would be extremely tough to come away with a competitive group that way.

 

[Dantés]

Over $30Mil of that $76.2Mil was on 3 OLB's (Peppers, CM3 & Perry)... if that money doesn't translate to BIG production then of course there will be problems.

IMHO this is why TT won't spend big $$ on Perry and CM3's shouldn't be on this year's 53 ($15Mil cap hit)... the production just doesn't justify the $$. In 2016: Peppers played 56% of D snaps and had 7.5 sacks & 2 forced fumbles. Perry played 58% of D snaps and had 11 sacks & 1 interception. CM3 played 46% of D snaps and had 5 sacks & 1 forced fumble. Does this production warrant $30+Mil cap expenditure?

Not sure where the pass rush will come from but there are better ways to spend it than oft-injured CM3 & Perry. FYI ~ Fackrell played 15% of D snaps and had 2 sacks & 1 forced fumble... maybe with 10lbs of muscle (hopefully) added to his frame he'll be more stout and continue progressing to be a serviceable rotation OLB.

I agree with the exception of Perry, who is worth the money IF he maintains that 2016 level of play. The injuries are the concern. We will see what happens. Internally, they have a better idea than anyone if he's the type that only put up a good year because it was a contract season.

 

[Mondio]

perry is worth some cash, if he can maintain health. but that's a question mark. Was he unlucky? soft?

But outside of that, Peppers, Matthews, Shields, all big contracts, with big production expected and thats a lot of money for little production last year. But at one point, they were all worth those contracts too. I'd say Peppers mostly earned his, but the other 2??? not even close.