2020 Salary Cap Situation

[tynimiller]

I wouldn't mind the Packers moving on from both Linsley and Taylor saving $12 million of cap space in the process.

Unfortunately I don't believe another team would be interested in trading for Linsley though.

I envisioned the only way we saw this was to make it possible to afford Hooper and/or Anderson (maybe Littleton) type signings. I think the ship has sailed now for a both gone scenario.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I wouldn't mind the Packers moving on from both Linsley and Taylor saving $12 million of cap space in the process.

Unfortunately I don't believe another team would be interested in trading for Linsley though.

We may see Taylor gone today, if they need the money to sigh Funchess?

But yes, I can see both of those guys cut/traded due to their contracts exceeding their value. Also to consider, they both only have 1 year left on their current contracts. So they could potentially be gone after 1 more season anyway.

2 things still have to exist before you shed either or both player:

1. The Packers have a player(s) that can step in and play at or near the same level as the guy they are releasing. I think this makes Taylor an easier release than Linsley.
2. They actually have immediate need for the cap saved by releasing 1 or both. I wouldn't want to see either released unless the money was going to be used to improve the team immediately. Now if you want to use the money in 2020 for resigning a guy like Clark, bring both guys to camp (if we have one) and hang on to them until it appears you have their replacement, no other OL player has suffered an injury or setback and then cut/trade one or both of them.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I envisioned the only way we saw this was to make it possible to afford Hooper and/or Anderson (maybe Littleton) type signings. I think the ship has sailed now for a both gone scenario.

The Packers could still use the cap space saved by releasing Linsley and Taylor to improve the team.

We may see Taylor gone today, if they need the money to sigh Funchess?

2 things still have to exist before you shed either or both player:

1. The Packers have a player(s) that can step in and play at or near the same level as the guy they are releasing. I think this makes Taylor an easier release than Linsley.
2. They actually have immediate need for the cap saved by releasing 1 or both. I wouldn't want to see either released unless the money was going to be used to improve the team immediately. Now if you want to use the money in 2020 for resigning a guy like Clark, bring both guys to camp (if we have one) and hang on to them until it appears you have their replacement, no other OL player has suffered an injury or setback and then cut/trade one or both of them.

First of all I don't think the Packers need any additional cap space to fit Funchess under the cap.

Gutekunst might feel confident about Patrick starting at center and Taylor shouldn't be that tough to replace.

The team could use the cap space saved to extend players headed towards free agency next year as well.

 

[tynimiller]

I don't disagree WIMM, but merely looking on the landscape of FAs I am beginning to find that harder to believe will happen.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The team could use the cap space saved to extend players headed towards free agency next year as well.

That is fine, if you don't blindly do it now. The last thing I would want to see happen is a situation where the Packers cut Linsley, give the savings to Clark in a new contract and Linsley's replacement blows out a knee before the start of the regular season. Then what?

No, if I am Gute and I am this tight against the cap, with current and potential future needs, I don't give any money away on future contracts, until I have addressed what I need for the 2020 season. Hell, if they get to the start of the regular season and a player like Taylor is no longer needed, they may cut him, keep the money on hand until the trade deadline is over and then if its still there, use it to extend Clark.

 

[gopkrs]

That is fine, if you don't blindly do it now. The last thing I would want to see happen is a situation where the Packers cut Linsley, give the savings to Clark in a new contract and Linsley's replacement blows out a knee before the start of the regular season. Then what?

No, if I am Gute and I am this tight against the cap, with current and potential future needs, I don't give any money away on future contracts, until I have addressed what I need for the 2020 season. Hell, if they get to the start of the regular season and a player like Taylor is no longer needed, they may cut him, keep the money on hand until the trade deadline is over and then if its still there, use it to extend Clark.

Well, it sounds like that would be better than keeping Linsley and him blowing out a knee.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well, it sounds like that would be better than keeping Linsley and him blowing out a knee.

Wondering if that was said tongue in cheek? Of course you don't want your big money starters to blow a knee, but you can't base your decisions fully on "what if they do?" or any other unknowns for that matter. We don't cut/trade Davante Adams in fear of him blowing a knee and still counting against the cap. My point was, getting rid of either Taylor or Linsley thins out your starting depth as well as your backup depth. Since it doesn't appear that keeping either of them on the team right now costs the Packers much, other than maybe a workout bonus, I view them both as cheap insurance to hold onto until their pay kicks in and you know exactly what you have with all your Offensive lineman.

Obviously, between now and final cutdowns, if they need the cap space, then they always have that option to obtain it by getting rid of one or both of those players.

 

[gbgary]

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[GleefulGary]

GB could cut Linsley for cap room, but who is out there that they would even use the money on?

It's far more likely they ride his contract out, and get a good comp pick for him.

I'd be surprised if they didn't cut Taylor. Patrick can fill in for him. Taylor has had to play OTA before out of necessity, but he is not a swing OT. Everybody should get that idea out of their head.

 

[HardRightEdge]

We may see Taylor gone today, if they need the money to sigh Funchess?

The Packers have $12 - $13 mil in Top 51 cap sapce. I don't think any further comment is necessary, though I was tempted.

 

[tynimiller]

@HardRightEdge I have an email where you break it down (pasted below) where did it go???

With all the discussion of extending contracts, backloading contracts, cutting players for cap space to sign more players or extending players, it's worth looking at the 2021 situation where the deferred cap in any backloaded contracts or additional signings will start to land.

This is a snapshot at this moment excluding Funchess since his contract details have not been leaked.

overthecap: $162.8 mil cap commitmnts for 30 players under contract

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

spotrac: $163.4 mil cap commitments for 31 players under contract

The trivial difference is the result of spotrac including that additional player, Olive Sagapolu at a $675,000 cap cost. Otherwise, the aggreate numbers are all but identical. The current Packers.com roster doesn't show Sagapolu, so I'll assume he's no longer around which takes us to overthecap's $ and players.

So, what would the depth chart look like with these 30 players at the $162.8 mil cap cost? Players in their 2021 contract year will have a [CR] disignation. By this time next year, extension discussions regarding some of these players may be a hot topic. That depth charts looks something like this:

QB:Rodgers
RB: Dexter Williams
FB:
LT:
LG: Jenkins, Madison
C: Patrick, Madison
RG: Turner, Madison
RT: Wagner
WR: Adams

 

[tynimiller]

Either way, and not trying to be the bearer of gloom and doom...what @HardRightEdge outlines above is INCREDIBLY concerning from a cap standpoint.

At this point unless the cap explodes a good $20M or so for 2021.....we simply cannot afford more than what 2...maybe 3 of the following if we desire to and get creative: Clark, Jones, Linsley, Bahk and King. We also have Adams, Jamaal Williams, Lewis, Boyle, Green, Light, Lazard, Lancaster, Kumerow, Tim Williams, DaShaun Amos, Shepherd, Crockett...........

A tough optino to swallow but could happen is a scenario depending on what we find OL wise this draft a 2021 lineup where Linsley and Bahk BOTH are gone.

 

[HardRightEdge]

With all the discussion of extending contracts, backloading contracts, cutting players for cap space to sign more players or extending players, it's worth looking at the 2021 situation where the deferred cap in any backloaded extensions or additional signings will start to land.

This is a snapshot at this moment excluding Funchess since his contract details have not yet been leaked.

overthecap: $162.8 mil cap commitmnts for 30 players under contract

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

spotrac: $163.4 mil cap commitments for 31 players under contract

The trivial difference is the result of spotrac including that one additional player, Olive Sagapolu at a $675,000 cap cost. Otherwise, the aggreate numbers are all but identical. The current Packers.com roster doesn't show Sagapolu, so I'll assume he's no longer around which takes us to overthecap's $ and players.

So, what would the depth chart look like with these 30 players at the $162.8 mil cap cost? Players in their 2021 contract year will have a [CR] disignation. By this time next year, extension discussions regarding some of these players may be a hot topic. That depth charts looks something like this:

QB: Rodgers
RB: Dexter Williams
FB:
LT:
LG: Jenkins, Madison
C: Patrick [CR], Madison
RG: Turner, Madison
RT: Wagner [CR]
TE: Sternberger
WR: Adams [CR], Valdes-Scantling [CR], St. Brown, Begelton

DL: Lowry, Keke, Roberts
OLB: Z. Smith, P. Smith, Gary
ILB: Kirksey [CR], Burks [CR], Summers, Bolton
CB: Alexander [CR], Holman, Jackson [CR]
S: Savage, Amos

PK: Crosby
P: Scott [CR]
LS: Bradley

Of course there will be two drafts in the interim. For illustration purposes and the sake of argument, that's 17 players give or take, at an additional cost of around $15 mil in their first seasons, a little more for second year contracts of 2020 draftees, and a little more for cap increases, bringing the total players to 47 at a cap cost of a something more than $178 mil.

Given the gaping holes and many unkowns, any more backloaded signings or extensions need to be quite selective. You cannot squeeze Clark, Bakhtiari and Jones current contract extensions into this equation given what their 2nd. year cap hits would look like. Pick one.

I've said in the past that this year is a window of opportunity. If you wound back the clock 12 months and went through this same excersize for this season, the holes and question marks were less numerous at a similar cost. Regardless, going forward, it's more about stacking drafts than extending every possible candidate. Getting 6 players out of the next two drafts is the priority in keeping the ball rolling. A true "all in" for 2020 might look like scorched earth come 2021 without bounteous drafts which is a highly suspect proposition.

 

[tynimiller]

Couldn't have said it better man, and hopefully this helps some understand some of the issues with contract talks.

 

[tynimiller]

I forgot all the contract year notations except for Adams. There are a bunch. I'm updating that now.

You reminded me that Begelton's was a 3 year and not one year and needed amending. I should have known that since I'm a mild fanboy of his.

 

[HardRightEdge]

You reminded me that Begelton's was a 3 year and not one year and needed amending. I should have known that since I'm a mild fanboy of his.

I know nothing about him. I guess I'll see what college tape is out there.

This time next year we may be talking about extentions for Adams, Alexander and maybe another one or two if they have good seasons. Anybody on a rookie contract, such as Alexander, would necessarily have a cap bite right then and there in 2021 as would be the case with Jones this season.

The absence of Bakhtiari alone in that picture is a massive hole where re-signing or franchising would be a huge chunk of cap taken out in 2021.

A lot of this relative to what is typical looking out this far. I can tell you that this exercise done a year ago presented a much better picture for 2020 than this one does for 2021, ergo the "window".

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You reminded me that Begelton's was a 3 year and not one year and needed amending. I should have known that since I'm a mild fanboy of his.

I'm kind of excited about seeing Begelton. I watched his highlights and then looked at his stats and thought "WOW". Then I came down to earth as I realized that he did all of this while playing in the Canadian Football league. But I think the signing was well worth it and probably better than taking a WR in the 6th round on.

2019 Stats for Begelton:

102 catches
144 passes thrown at him
1444 yds.
519 YAC
10 TD's
14.2 yds/catch

 

[HardRightEdge]

You reminded me that Begelton's was a 3 year and not one year and needed amending. I should have known that since I'm a mild fanboy of his.

I remember now...this is the guy they signed out of the CFL. He'll be 27 in August.

There's not much to be made out of it being a 3 year deal. It has only a tiny $7,000 signing bonus, no other guarantees, and minimum salaries.

It's a 3 year deal because, for whatever reason, the Packers could make it so. If Begelton is not a player to keep by cutdowns, the cost is tiny. If he turns out to be good enough to keep, he's sitting on the minimum for the year, then rinse and repeat for two more years. In other words, it's all team options throughout, however long it lasts.

I looked at some of the CFL tape. Nothing jumps out. Given how few players graduate to the NFL from the CFL, the level of competition is a big issue. What would you say? Like a lower tier conference where a couple of guys get drafted in low rounds an a couple make camps as UDFA's, just an older group of guys? Is he just one of the best houses in a bad neighborhood?

Given the contract structure and lack of any wow factor in that tape, I wouldn't qualify him much differently from a UDFA competing for his NFL life.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I wouldn't qualify him much differently from a UDFA competing for his NLF life.

NLF? Is that the National Lingerie Football league? I think we could all use some of that about now.

But yeah, I agree with you, although some of his tape was impressive, so are most "highlight reels" of players, College, semi-pro, CFL. NFL, etc. I think this was just a Packer scout saying "Hey, I found a decent CFL WR and we NEED WR's, lets give him a tryout in 2020."

 

[HardRightEdge]

NLF? Is that the National Lingerie Football league?

If he goes transgender, then yes. I would not expect that, however.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If he goes transgender, then yes. I would not expect that, however.

Oh I don't think he would be required to become a cross dresser in the Lingerie League. They use to let me play in my cape.

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[Deleted member 6794]

I don't disagree WIMM, but merely looking on the landscape of FAs I am beginning to find that harder to believe will happen.

The Packers could trade for a veteran as well.

That is fine, if you don't blindly do it now. The last thing I would want to see happen is a situation where the Packers cut Linsley, give the savings to Clark in a new contract and Linsley's replacement blows out a knee before the start of the regular season. Then what?

I agree that there's no reason to cut either Linsley or Taylor at this point. Gutekunst might feel comfortable about making either move after the end of training camp though.

GB could cut Linsley for cap room, but who is out there that they would even use the money on?

It's far more likely they ride his contract out, and get a good comp pick for him.

With teams being allowed to roll over cap space into next season there's no reason to hold on to Linsley if the Packers decide to not spend the savings this season as long as they have an adequate replacement for him on the roster.

At this point unless the cap explodes a good $20M or so for 2021.....we simply cannot afford more than what 2...maybe 3 of the following if we desire to and get creative: Clark, Jones, Linsley, Bahk and King. We also have Adams, Jamaal Williams, Lewis, Boyle, Green, Light, Lazard, Lancaster, Kumerow, Tim Williams, DaShaun Amos, Shepherd, Crockett...........

Unfortunately with a hard salary cap in place teams won't be able to re-sign all of their free agents. With that being said it might be possible that Jones, Linsley and King won't be back with the Packers in 2021.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It is being reported that both Funchess and Ervin are signing one year deals. Money has not been reported yet, but with no cap deferal some $millions will be shaved off available cap.

Irvin continues the theme of backing and filling, shoring up weak spots. In not signing any big ticket FAs, including Bulaga, Gutekunst's evident perception of the situation is that spreading out cap down the pay scale to address multiple question marks is more important than adding impact to the core. I guess that's pretty obvious.

 

[tynimiller]

If I was Gute and given the situation of ONLY Dexter signed past this season, I'd have tried to sign Tyler to a 2 year deal. Safety net with little dead cap if cut after 1 though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If I was Gute and given the situation of ONLY Dexter signed past this season, I'd have tried to sign Tyler to a 2 year deal. Safety net with little dead cap if cut after 1 though.

Irvin is not a RB beyond #3 emergency duty. He isn't a safety net against the Jones/Williams pending free agency. Either of those losses at #1 or #2 would have to be addressed in 2021 free agency or the draft.