2020 Packers 3rd round pick: Josiah Deguara, TE

[Dantés]

Another H-Back that LaFleur has overlapped with that came to mind: Chris Cooley.

 

[HardRightEdge]

6'2", 240 lbs. is sub-optimal for in-line, which may be putting it kindly.

Those are the dimensions of a FB, and that's the role he's likely to play, H-back in the backfield or offset line who can also catch the ball from that position. For a team that collects tall WRs and TEs, it's hard to see where they would project him to the slot. Maybe he'll motion there from the backfield once in a while.

He's filling Vitale's role, hopefully better and perhaps more often, but 3rd. round is awfully high for smallish TE with nothing in particular that stands out.

 

[Dantés]

6'2", 240 lbs. is sub-optimal for in-line, which may be putting it kindly.

Those are the dimensions of a FB, and that's the role he's likely to play, H-back in the backfield or offset line who can also catch the ball from that position. For a team that collects tall WRs and TEs, it's hard to see where they would project him to the slot. Maybe he'll motion there from the backfield once in a while.

He's filling Vitale's role, hopefully better and perhaps more often, but 3rd. round is awfully high for smallish TE with nothing in particular that stands out.

If the totality of the vision for Deguara is a 350 snap lead blocker and ST work, then I would agree that #94 is high for that. If he was really successful in that role, the value would be fine at that pick, however if that's the upside then you're giving yourself a really low ceiling with a top 100 pick.

That said, LaFleur has worked with some H-backs that have been a lot more involved and productive than Juszczyk, so we will see what actually come of it. If Deguara becomes a Chris Cooley or Delanie Walker type of player, no one is going to question the value at #94.

 

[Dantés]

Something else that came to mind today on the Deguara selection.

Last year, Gary Kubiak came to Minnesota to oversee the offense. Obviously Kubiak is a forerunner of guys like Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur in this same offensive system.

Pick #50 in last year's draft, the Vikings took Irv Smith Jr., a 6'2" 242 lb H-back who can block on the move and also threaten in the passing game.

Smith Jr.:

• 6'2" 242#
• 4.63 forty
• 32.5" vert, 110" broad
• 7.32 3C, 4.33 SS
• Pick #50

Deguara:

• 6'2" 242#
• 4.74 forty
• 35.5" vert, 115" broad
• 7.15 3C, 4.35 SS
• Pick #94

Smith played 640 snaps on offense for the Vikings last year and 140 on special teams.

 

[thequick12]

Yep, that's all we know for certain. We don't know that he would have lasted into the 4th or 5th, and we don't know that he wouldn't have. And we will never know. I just think the evidence suggests that he would not have.

2 of degaura's comps, 6-2 250 Thaddeus Moss and 6-2 248 Hunter Bryant went undrafted. I could be wrong but I believe degaura was the only 6-2 te selected in the entire 2020 draft. And I believe there a reason for that, that reason being, not a lot of teams covet a 6-2 te. The Patriots took a 6-3 guy 3 picks prior to the deguara pick at #91 but no one else took a guy that was a comp to degaura in the entire draft. So I'm not sure that the evidence suggests what you're saying at all in fact the evidence suggests had deguara not been selected by the Packers he may not have been selected at all...

 

[GleefulGary]

2 of degaura's comps, 6-2 250 Thaddeus Moss and 6-2 248 Hunter Bryant went undrafted. I could be wrong but I believe degaura was the only 6-2 te selected in the entire 2020 draft. And I believe there a reason for that, that reason being, not a lot of teams covet a 6-2 te. The Patriots took a 6-3 guy 3 picks prior to the deguara pick at #91 but no one else took a guy that was a comp to degaura in the entire draft. So I'm not sure that the evidence suggests what you're saying at all in fact the evidence suggests had deguara not been selected by the Packers he may not have been selected at all...

Just last year a 6'2 TE went #50 in the draft.

There is no evidence at all suggesting Deguara wouldn't have been selected. Be reasonable, good grief. You don't have to like it, but c'mon. Be a little reasonable.

 

[GleefulGary]

Also, outside of being the same height, Bryant and Moss are very different players than Deguara. How the heck are they comparable players?!

 

[Dantés]

2 of degaura's comps, 6-2 250 Thaddeus Moss and 6-2 248 Hunter Bryant went undrafted. I could be wrong but I believe degaura was the only 6-2 te selected in the entire 2020 draft. And I believe there a reason for that, that reason being, not a lot of teams covet a 6-2 te. The Patriots took a 6-3 guy 3 picks prior to the deguara pick at #91 but no one else took a guy that was a comp to degaura in the entire draft. So I'm not sure that the evidence suggests what you're saying at all in fact the evidence suggests had deguara not been selected by the Packers he may not have been selected at all...

Who comped Deguara to those guys? They're not comparable-- not in terms of role or athletic profile.

Thaddeus Moss was not an H-back at LSU, and he's a bad athlete. Hunter Bryant is a mediocre athlete, and a pure Flex-- not an H-back.

If you want a good comp for Deguara, the best and most recent that I can think of would be Irv Smith Jr. from last year's class.

Smith:

• 6'2" 242#
• 31.5" arms, 9.5" hands
• 4.63 forty
• 32.5" vert, 9'2" broad
• 7.32 3C, 4.33 SS
• 19 reps of 225
• 44/710/7 in 2018
• 4.78 RAS

Deguara:

• 6'2", 242#
• 31.5" arms, 9" hands
• 4.74 forty
• 35.5" vert, 9'7" broad
• 7.15 3C, 4.35 SS
• 25 reps of 225
• 39/504/7 in 2019
• 8.52 RAS

And additionally (and most importantly) both were effective move blockers in college who could create in the passing game. Now Smith did it at the highest level of college football, and he created bigger plays in the passing game, but he also went at pick #50, not in the back of the 3rd round.

I don't really care if people don't like the pick, but comping Deguara to non-comparable undrafted guys is a bad faith argument and it really discredits the person making the argument rather than the prospect himself.

 

[thequick12]

Just last year a 6'2 TE went #50 in the draft.

There is no evidence at all suggesting Deguara wouldn't have been selected. Be reasonable, good grief. You don't have to like it, but c'mon. Be a little reasonable.

Yes I know, I previously mentioned Irv Smith during this back and forth. But the fact remains that 6-2 tes are not coveted by many nfl teams. It's like the Packers don't draft a corner under 5 10 or whatever the exact number is.

I have nothing against the player. I think he's gonna be a quality role player in green bay for a long time. I just think the evidence suggests that he would of been available later in the draft. Due to the fact the Patriots took the undersized te they coveted 3 picks prior to degaura, the 6-3 Devin asiasi. And no team selected hunter Hunter Bryant or Thaddeus Moss the two closest comps to both asiasi and degaura and 2019's Irv Smith. I never said that I thought he would have gone undrafted. I just said that had the Packers not selected him we don't know if anyone else would have...because his market was a lot smaller than traditional tes like Cole Kmet, Harrison Bryant, Adam Trautman etc. The pool of teams willing to consider degaura was much smaller than those guys because of his lack of size.

Also the player you mentioned drafted at 50 in 2019, fell to 50 because of his lack of size. He was talked about as a sure fire first rounder til the combine brought to light the fact that he was 6-2. Had he been 6-4 like everyone thought prior to the combine, he would have gone in the first round.

 

[thequick12]

Who comped Deguara to those guys? They're not comparable-- not in terms of role or athletic profile.

Thaddeus Moss was not an H-back at LSU, and he's a bad athlete. Hunter Bryant is a mediocre athlete, and a pure Flex-- not an H-back.

If you want a good comp for Deguara, the best and most recent that I can think of would be Irv Smith Jr. from last year's class.

Smith:

• 6'2" 242#
• 31.5" arms, 9.5" hands
• 4.63 forty
• 32.5" vert, 9'2" broad
• 7.32 3C, 4.33 SS
• 19 reps of 225
• 44/710/7 in 2018
• 4.78 RAS

Deguara:

• 6'2", 242#
• 31.5" arms, 9" hands
• 4.74 forty
• 35.5" vert, 9'7" broad
• 7.15 3C, 4.35 SS
• 25 reps of 225
• 39/504/7 in 2019
• 8.52 RAS

And additionally (and most importantly) both were effective move blockers in college who could create in the passing game. Now Smith did it at the highest level of college football, and he created bigger plays in the passing game, but he also went at pick #50, not in the back of the 3rd round.

I don't really care if people don't like the pick, but comping Deguara to non-comparable undrafted guys is a bad faith argument and it really discredits the person making the argument rather than the prospect himself.

I do like the player as I've said over and over again. He's gonna be a quality role player in GB for a long time. I just think the evidence suggest he may have been around to take later in the draft.

Irv Smith fell to pick 50 only because he was 6-2 had he been 6-4 all evidence suggest he was a sure fire first round pick. He is not a comp coming out to degaura. He was viewed as a star te1 prospect, a guy who could excel in line as a traditional y as well as split out. Until the combine when he measured much shorter than expected. No one is even trying to say degaura is a te1...

It's the same thing as with Love. Did gute have to give away a fourth rounder to move up to select him? Well never know for sure but the evidence suggests none of the teams between 26 and 29 were prepared to take him. Also from everything I'm hearing no one was planning on moving up to get him. The colts have been rumored but I've heard they made zero calls. In a way the draft is like poker and you can get bluffed. It seems the Packers got bluffed on Love and lost out on a really good player at 136. And not having that pick at 136 led to a chain reaction of them taking guys MLF really coveted, a round earlier than perhaps they wanted to.

And haha you're a hilarious guy. Now that you've discredited me idk what I'm gonna do?

It's called common sense my friend, try getting some, maybe they have it at Walmart...

 

[Dantés]

I do like the player as I've said over and over again. He's gonna be a quality role player in GB for a long time. I just think the evidence suggest he may have been around to take later in the draft.

Irv Smith fell to pick 50 only because he was 6-2 had he been 6-4 all evidence suggest he was a sure fire first round pick. He is not a comp coming out to degaura. He was viewed as a star te1 prospect, a guy who could excel in line as a traditional y as well as split out. Until the combine when he measured much shorter than expected. No one is even trying to say degaura is a te1...

It's the same thing as with Love. Did gute have to give away a fourth rounder to move up to select him? Well never know for sure but the evidence suggests none of the teams between 26 and 29 were prepared to take him. Also from everything I'm hearing no one was planning on moving up to get him. The colts have been rumored but I've heard they made zero calls. In a way the draft is like poker and you can get bluffed. It seems the Packers got bluffed on Love and lost out on a really good player at 136. And not having that pick at 136 led to a chain reaction of them taking guys MLF really coveted, a round earlier than perhaps they wanted to.

And haha you're a hilarious guy. Now that you've discredited me idk what I'm gonna do?

It's called common sense my friend, try getting some, maybe they have it at Walmart...

Irv Smith Jr. is a comp because he's... comparable. He and Deguara have near identical builds and similar athletic profiles. They played very similar roles in college. They were projected to very similar roles in the pros. Their production was similar. As I mentioned before, Smith came out of a higher level of CFB and was more productive on a per catch basis, but he also went 50th and not 94th. But there is a ton of crossover between these two players.

This is from Zierlein's write up on Smith: "He has combination tight end talent but really flashes as a move blocker at fullback or wingback spots."

The Minneapolis Star on his role: "he will be aligned all over the field from fullback to slot receiver, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports."

This is why he was still out-snapped by the Vikings' actual in-line tight end last year, Kyle Rudolph.

Smith and Deguara both were strong blockers both on the move and in-line in college, but both projected to a move blocker role in the NFL because of size limitations. You say the two aren't comparable, but you totally fail to address all of the comparisons that can be drawn between them. If they aren't comparable, show me all of the differences between them as prospects.

I didn't say that I discredited you, I said you discredit yourself when you try to draw comparisons with no basis, like Moss or Bryant. That's like me picking out some 6'0" running back that went undrafted and comping them to Dillon because of height. Deguara's athletic profile isn't like those guys, his role in college isn't like those guys, his projected role in the pros isn't like those guys, etc.

 

[tynimiller]

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Just sucks he is a midget at 6'2' and won't amount to anything....I mean he only left Cincy with records over Celek and Kelce....what a bum...

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

On my iPad reading Flipboard and bleacher report has an article about MLF last year in a team meeting using video of DeGuara chasing down a defender after he intercepted the Cindy QB. MLF said this is the hustle and effort we want. He absolutely loved him even back then. He told his players this is the effort we want our player’s to have.

I would link it but not sure how since it is on flipboard so no url.

 

[tynimiller]

On my iPad reading Flipboard and bleacher report has an article about MLF last year in a team meeting using video of DeGuara chasing down a defender after he intercepted the Cindy QB. MLF said this is the hustle and effort we want. He absolutely loved him even back then. He told his players this is the effort we want our player’s to have.

I would link it but not sure how since it is on flipboard so no url.

That's the play I was stressing earlier in thread, amazing. This guy loves every part of football, every.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

On my iPad reading Flipboard and bleacher report has an article about MLF last year in a team meeting using video of DeGuara chasing down a defender after he intercepted the Cindy QB. MLF said this is the hustle and effort we want. He absolutely loved him even back then. He told his players this is the effort we want our player’s to have.

Awesome, so the Packers used their third round pick on a fullback because he showed effort chasing down a defender on an interception??? That's brilliant

 

[Dantés]

Alternatively, they used their 3rd round pick on an H-back because this offense uses one and they really liked Deguara.

 

[OldSchool101]

This coming season we'll have an all world quarterback with one legitimate receiver to throw to.

I think you can say Funchess is legit. He played with a lesser QB and averaged about 550 yards per full season played with an average just shy of 14yards (13.8) per catch. That’s not exactly a slouch. It wouldn’t be a reach to estimate him around 600-800 yards range with #12 slinging the ball.

If Deguara becomes a Chris Cooley or Delanie Walker type of player, no one is going to question the value at #94.

Yeah. Deguara was essentially an early day 3 projection that was selected with one of the last picks in day 2 (there were 2 picks and several compensatory picks after GB to end day 3 draft.
I think it’s partly people are mad that we didn’t go receiver and are embellishing by saying GB was way off the page at TE here. It’s apparent that Deguara helped himself with a solid combine to move up GBs board a bit. That’s what players are supposed to do and he was deserving of squeaking into the back of day 2.

So I'm not sure that the evidence suggests what you're saying at all in fact the evidence suggests had deguara not been selected by the Packers he may not have been selected at all...

That’s not true. As one example.. Hunter Bryant only had 1 combine event where he’s scored better than Deguara (3-cone 7.08 vs 7.14) which is relatively equal and pretty decent for those big guys.
The biggest difference is Hunter Bryant is a poor blocker and Deguara is one of the best blockers in this 2020 class. While the TE class was underwhelming overall, Deguara was arguably one of the best blocking TE’s in this class, but he also possesses sure hands and that put him in rare company in this draft.
Outside of 1-2 other TE’s who weren’t there at our end of each round, Either you picked a slightly better TE receiver with poor blocking skills or you got a similar blocking TE with poor route running and receiving skills.

Go take look at the bio’s of the other TE’s besides Deguara and you’ll see a common theme throughout.. “poor blocking” “unable to get off blocks” “unable to use proper footwork in setting up blocks” the list goes on.

Deguara was one of just a few TE’s in the 2020 class with both assets at receiving AND blocking. Im much more comfortable with well-rounded players who are also physically gifted. Or we could go with another pick #98.. slightly taller type Richard Rogers w/a 4.87 X40 and 16 reps? No thank You!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Alternatively, they used their 3rd round pick on an H-back because this offense uses one and they really liked Deguara.

It's obvious the Packers front office liked Deguara. Unfortunately I think they're wrong about him though.

I think you can say Funchess is legit. He played with a lesser QB and averaged about 550 yards per full season played with an average just shy of 14yards (13.8) per catch. That’s not exactly a slouch. It wouldn’t be a reach to estimate him around 600-800 yards range with #12 slinging the ball.

Funchess is an upgrade most likely over every other receiver not named Adams on the roster but in my opinion solely adding hi to the unit isn't good enough.

Yeah. Deguara was essentially an early day 3 projection that was selected with one of the last picks in day 2 (there were 2 picks and several compensatory picks after GB to end day 3 draft. It’s apparent that Deguara helped himself with a solid combine to move up GBs board a bit. That’s what players are supposed to do and he was deserving of squeaking into the back of day 2.

Deguara was generally considered to be a sixth round pick, therefore the Packers drafting him on day 2 was a huge surprise. The performance at the combine shouldn't result in a player moving up several rounds.

The biggest difference is Hunter Bryant is a poor blocker and Deguara is one of the best blockers in this 2020 class. While the TE class was underwhelming overall, Deguara was arguably one of the best blocking TE’s in this class, but he also possesses sure hands and that put him in rare company in this draft.

While Deguara was one of the best blocking tight ends in this year's draft class his drop rate last season was below average.

 

[GleefulGary]

Once again Wimm, who considered him a 6th round pick?

I had him in the 4th. Does my opinion matter? Nope. Just like PFF's board doesn't, and TDN's board doesn't, and etc, etc.

Stanford Samuels was considered a 4-5th round pick. Got him as an UDFA!

Malichi Dupre was the greatest draft steal of all when we got him in the 7th!

 

[tynimiller]

Once again Wimm, who considered him a 6th round pick?

I had him in the 4th. Does my opinion matter? Nope. Just like PFF's board doesn't, and TDN's board doesn't, and etc, etc.

Stanford Samuels was considered a 4-5th round pick. Got him as an UDFA!

Malichi Dupre was the greatest draft steal of all when we got him in the 7th!

Yup, DPJ out of Michigan some had as high as second round.....they're scattered all over to make an unfounded claim either way about a pick.

 

[GleefulGary]

Yup, DPJ out of Michigan some had as high as second round.....they're scattered all over to make an unfounded claim either way about a pick.

Now there's a guy I'm glad we didn't take.

 

[tynimiller]

Now there's a guy I'm glad we didn't take.

To be fair at the 5th round even my dislike for him waned to admittance he could be very solid value there. I still would have probably looked elsewhere but still...

 

[gopkrs]

I just don't know about Funchess. He sounds like he might be a good possession receiver on 3rd down. I mean, we are only paying him $2.5M. I read he had a very good career at Michigan.

 

[gopkrs]

I like the Deguara pick but once again, it will depend on how they play him. He had stats in college similar to two excellent pros that went there. I see him in tight in the slot for blocking and going out for passes. Not convinced of him being some kind of fullback clone. So LaFleur will have to use him right. And that will include receiving. imho

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Once again Wimm, who considered him a 6th round pick?

I had him in the 4th. Does my opinion matter? Nope. Just like PFF's board doesn't, and TDN's board doesn't, and etc, etc.

Stanford Samuels was considered a 4-5th round pick. Got him as an UDFA!

Malichi Dupre was the greatest draft steal of all when we got him in the 7th!

Once again, there wasn't a single evaluator I know of that graded Deguara as a third round pick. Obviously it doesn't matter as the Packers came to the conclusion that he was the best value with the 94th selection.

You forget that teams make a ton of mistakes on draft day as well though. With it being accepted that it takes three years to fairly evaluate a draft class let's revisit how the Packers did in 2017.

They completely messed up their first four selections in that draft by picking King, Jones, Adams and Biegel.

So, while it seems that most of you feel confident with whatever the team considers to be the best strategy I tend to form my own opinion on their selections and no matter what you want me to make believe I won't feel confident about this year's class until proven wrong on the field.

Yup, DPJ out of Michigan some had as high as second round.....they're scattered all over to make an unfounded claim either way about a pick.

Now there's a guy I'm glad we didn't take.

That's hilarious, it took only one post after you correctly posted that your opinion doesn't matter that you claim to know for a fact that a prospect won't work out.