2020 Offseason

[gbgary]

martinez is going to get paid more than the Packers can afford. he's not going to backup anyone. he'll be a starter somewhere. somewhere with a good D front that eats up O-linemen. that's not the Packers. the Packers will have to settle for what they can get in FA and/or hope someone falls to them in the draft.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We just signed one of the CFL's best WRs to a futures contract and I think we can get better value with our FA dollars focusing on DL and ILB and then focus on WR in the draft.

I think that is wishful thinking that Reggie Begelton is going to come from the CFL and do a whole lot in the NFL. I'm not saying that he won't or can't, but I would say the odds of him doing much aren't something I would count on to happen.

As far as the draft goes, kind of the same thing. Sure, you could use a first or second rounder on a WR, but is a rookie going to come in and produce in 2020 or more like in 2021 or 2022?

I think Gute is painted himself into a corner on this one, he really has to figure out how to immediately improve at least the WR #2 spot. I just don't think that is going to happen immediately by staying pat with the current roster (including Reggie Begelton) or even adding a high draft pick to the mix. Therefore, even as slim as the pickings at WR might look in Free Agency, I expect him to sign at least one FA WR that is better than anyone we currently have not named Adams.

 

[tynimiller]

martinez is going to get paid more than the Packers can afford. he's not going to backup anyone. he'll be a starter somewhere. somewhere with a good D front that eats up O-linemen. that's not the Packers. the Packers will have to settle for what they can get in FA and/or hope someone falls to them in the draft.

We all know that he is gonna get more...that isn't the point being discussed however.

 

[gbgary]

We all know that he is gonna get more...that isn't the point being discussed however.

thinking he'll take a cut to stay, or that he isn't any good, aren't realistic arguments. he was asked to do too much here with the D interior being poor except for clark. kind of hung out to dry.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I think that is wishful thinking that Reggie Begelton is going to come from the CFL and do a whole lot in the NFL. I'm not saying that he won't or can't, but I would say the odds of him doing much aren't something I would count on to happen.

As far as the draft goes, kind of the same thing. Sure, you could use a first or second rounder on a WR, but is a rookie going to come in and produce in 2020 or more like in 2021 or 2022?

I think Gute is painted himself into a corner on this one, he really has to figure out how to immediately improve at least the WR #2 spot. I just don't think that is going to happen immediately by staying pat with the current roster (including Reggie Begelton) or even adding a high draft pick to the mix. Therefore, even as slim as the pickings at WR might look in Free Agency, I expect him to sign at least one FA WR that is better than anyone we currently have not named Adams.

Pretty decent highlight reel here for the Bagel man (Begelton).

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Immediate first impressions. He's got good hands. Catches off the body well when diving. He also has skills with the ball for YAC. Kinda looks like a sturdier/bulkier Greg Jennings but probably not as fast. He's used often on the reverse play... something I'm sure MLF wants to use more to keep defenses guessing. I'm very curious to see how he will fare against top-notch speed and competition. Maybe he's engulfed and doesn't make these explosive plays. Maybe it continues, either way, he's worth a look-see.

 

[tynimiller]

thinking he'll take a cut to stay, or that he isn't any good, aren't realistic arguments. he was asked to do too much here with the D interior being poor except for clark. kind of hung out to dry.

Agree 100%...as is claiming there isn't a price point where he would be worth bringing back.

 

[Calvin]

You guys are telling me if Blake Martinez would come back for a measely 1.5Million a year and be your #2 ILB you wouldn't take that? Honestly?

I would not bring Martinez back for 1 dollar. It would be like a CB giving up 15TD but since everyone throws his way he ends up with 7 interceptions. I don't want him or Martinez. Why would GB want to bring him back. I've been watching GB since the Magic man was starting at QB. I can't remember a MLB that brought nothing to the table. On a scale of 1-10 for all LB skills, he is literally a 4 across the board.

On most running plays Martinez is doing one of two things. Either a TE takes him completely out of the play or what i hate the most. The RB get the ball and if you pause the tape at that moment, Martinez is literally chilling 5 yard back from the LOS. This is why he leads the NFL in tackles. He is the Main reason teams like SF can use the Wisconsin Badger playbook against the Packers.

 

[4zone]

I think that is wishful thinking that Reggie Begelton is going to come from the CFL and do a whole lot in the NFL. I'm not saying that he won't or can't, but I would say the odds of him doing much aren't something I would count on to happen.

As far as the draft goes, kind of the same thing. Sure, you could use a first or second rounder on a WR, but is a rookie going to come in and produce in 2020. . .

You can say that about any position with a #30 pick Gute has to pick two immediate impact players this year and sign at least one in FA. How that will break down is yet to be seen. That's all part of 'the show' now isn't it.

By the way look up Deebo Samuel and tell me again how a drafted WR won't produce their first year.

 

[4zone]

Shenault might very well be there, though projecting WRs before the combine is just a fun exercise with no basis in reality. If Shenault isn't there then the Packers will almost certainly have a shot at Ruggs/Higgins/Reagor/Aiyuk (not sure I trust that last one though). I would be ecstatic for the Packers to draft a WR in the first round but the team still needs help in other places on defense and if they draft a RB in the first 2 rounds I'll be very annoyed.

Agree, you can never foretell the minds of 31 other GMs and who they like. Tough to make a call on this year untill Gute starts signing guys and pulls the trigger in FA.

 

[4zone]

But if they feel that they can, then the sense in letting him go is the cap flexibility it provides.

Hypothetically, if they look at the market and see a guy like Hunter Henry available and have a choice between letting Linsley play the last year of his deal or signing Henry for the next four, the latter is probably more attractive to them. And if they look at Patrick and think that they can draft a center on day 2 or 3 of the draft and between the two options, replace Linsley then obviously the move makes sense.

But the draft is so unpredictable, not even Kiper can get more than 10-13 1st round picks correct. Anyway, our own signings, releases come first, then FA, THEN the draft.

 

[Dantés]

But the draft is so unpredictable, not even Kiper can get more than 10-13 1st round picks correct. Anyway, our own signings, releases come first, then FA, THEN the draft.

That's right, it is. But if (and I do mean if-- I'm not claiming to have this all figured out) they really like Patrick and are comfortable with him, then reliance on a rookie is not a foregone conclusion. It's telling that the Packers extended Patrick last month.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

By the way look up Deebo Samuel and tell me again how a drafted WR won't produce their first year.

For every Deebo Samuel there are 2 or more guys who didn't work out their very first year or even at all.

I never said that a first year WR couldn't produce in the NFL, history has shown that some have. However, if you look at the history of the Green Bay Packers, it is not very common for one to do so in their first year or two, so IMO, the Packers should not bank on it happening. Couple that with the fact that I believe that the Packers current WR group, with the exception of Adams, is way below average, it wouldn't be prudent to expect and rely on improving it with just the addition of a CFL WR and a high draft pick.

Bringing in a rookie who is expected to compete for the #3 or #4 position is one thing, but expecting him to instantly be your #2 starter, wishful thinking IMO, especially with the #30 pick or later.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You can say that about any position with a #30 pick Gute has to pick two immediate impact players this year and sign at least one in FA. How that will break down is yet to be seen. That's all part of 'the show' now isn't it.

By the way look up Deebo Samuel and tell me again how a drafted WR won't produce their first year.

I'd also be hesitant to use Deebo as an example; Shanahan is probably the best offensive game planner in the NFL and I'm not sure many coaches could get that kind of play from a different rookie. Drafting a WR with elite upside would be great but the difficulty with rookie WRs making major impacts in their first years is one of the reasons I would prefer the Packers go for a veteran with upside at a reasonable price (maybe Robby Anderson?) rather than relying on more young players to support the offense.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

What sucks is that literally every team in the NFL knows we need a WR. There will be teams attempting to leapfrog us prior to our pick as a result. I think this is the year to trade up, else risk losing anybody we have our sights on. I'd be a fan of jumping up to the mid 1st and getting a real talent - ex. pulling a Saints and trading next years first if one of the top two WR's is falling. Aggressive yes, but probably needed if we're going to get the type of talent that we need to jumpstart this offense. This is a draft that will really show the difference between Gute an Ted. Ted probably trades down from 30 and selects BPA in the 2nd. I think a team in win-now mode needs to forego the safe choice and take some risks. Hopefully, Gute agrees. But I think we should trade up, final answer.

 

[Dantés]

What sucks is that literally every team in the NFL knows we need a WR. There will be teams attempting to leapfrog us prior to our pick as a result. I think this is the year to trade up, else risk losing anybody we have our sights on. I'd be a fan of jumping up to the mid 1st and getting a real talent - ex. pulling a Saints and trading next years first if one of the top two WR's is falling. Aggressive yes, but probably needed if we're going to get the type of talent that we need to jumpstart this offense. This is a draft that will really show the difference between Gute an Ted. Ted probably trades down from 30 and selects BPA in the 2nd. I think a team in win-now mode needs to forego the safe choice and take some risks. Hopefully, Gute agrees. But I think we should trade up, final answer.

This draft class sets up for the exact opposite approach. There are so many quality wide receivers that giving up premium assets to draft a particular one makes little sense. By sheer numbers, there will be lots of value at the position throughout the process.

 

[tynimiller]

This draft class sets up for the exact opposite approach. There are so many quality wide receivers that giving up premium assets to draft a particular one makes little sense. By sheer numbers, there will be lots of value at the position throughout the process.

100% agree. The logic presented is what happens when their is a limited number of highly capable players in a specific position. Hence why nearly every year a team or two trade up for a QB...this year I think someone could do the same for ILB given the limited nature of TRUE top flight guys. WRs....eh not so much as there really is an argument amongst pundents of top 5 WRs that involve about 15 to 20 guys!!

 

[Dantés]

100% agree. The logic presented is what happens when their is a limited number of highly capable players in a specific position. Hence why nearly every year a team or two trade up for a QB...this year I think someone could do the same for ILB given the limited nature of TRUE top flight guys. WRs....eh not so much as there really is an argument amongst pundents of top 5 WRs that involve about 15 to 20 guys!!

Agree. The scenario that would set up most obviously for a trade up in my opinion is if the Packers allow Bulaga to walk without a replacement and need to land an immediate starting right tackle in the draft. This is supposed to be a good tackle class too, but good tackles tend not to slide on draft day.

 

[tynimiller]

Agree. The scenario that would set up most obviously for a trade up in my opinion is if the Packers allow Bulaga to walk without a replacement and need to land an immediate starting right tackle in the draft. This is supposed to be a good tackle class too, but good tackles tend not to slide on draft day.

Correct. That is actually the logic why I don't foresee Gute having to find a starting ILB and RT in the same year. My personal level of confidence that Bulaga will be back is over 75% or so due to this very issue.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

This draft class sets up for the exact opposite approach. There are so many quality wide receivers that giving up premium assets to draft a particular one makes little sense. By sheer numbers, there will be lots of value at the position throughout the process.

I get it, it's loaded at WR, that's been no secret for over a year. The last mock I saw had 5 WR's taken before the Packers pick. Do we want the 6th WR taken? I'm not sure who that would be. Do we want the WR6 to fill a needed role in a SB or bust team? I'm not a fan. Going into the second, what if the run continues? 31 other teams will be licking their chops on cheap talented WR's. Rodgers deserves better, IMO.

 

[tynimiller]

I get it, it's loaded at WR, that's been no secret for over a year. The last mock I saw had 5 WR's taken before the Packers pick. Do we want the 6th WR taken? I'm not sure who that would be. Do we want the WR6 to fill a needed role in a SB or bust team? I'm not a fan. Going into the second, what if the run continues? 31 other teams will be licking their chops on cheap talented WR's. Rodgers deserves better, IMO.

Outside of arguably 2 Wide outs the difference between the #3 - #15 wideouts is incredibly narrow and small. Honestly, unless Gute and them FALL IN LOVE with one, it could be the worst thing to draft a WR at #30 if a stud Tackle is there or DL or ILB....

 

[Dantés]

I get it, it's loaded at WR, that's been no secret for over a year. The last mock I saw had 5 WR's taken before the Packers pick. Do we want the 6th WR taken? I'm not sure who that would be. Do we want the WR6 to fill a needed role in a SB or bust team? I'm not a fan. Going into the second, what if the run continues? 31 other teams will be licking their chops on cheap talented WR's. Rodgers deserves better, IMO.

Depends on their board. If they perceive the Lamb's, Jeudy's, and Ruggs's to be head and shoulders far superior to players like Shenault, Jefferson, Aiyuk, Reagor, Higgins, Hamler, Pittman, etc., etc., etc. then they might think about it. And in thinking about it, they have to consider how far they'd need to go and how much it would cost.

Me personally, the rationale does not appeal to me. I don't see a top tier of receiver that's just way above the rest of the class. But it's early yet.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Depends on their board. If they perceive the Lamb's, Jeudy's, and Ruggs's to be head and shoulders far superior to players like Shenault, Jefferson, Aiyuk, Reagor, Higgins, Hamler, Pittman, etc., etc., etc. then they might think about it. And in thinking about it, they have to consider how far they'd need to go and how much it would cost.

Me personally, the rationale does not appeal to me. I don't see a top tier of receiver that's just way above the rest of the class. But it's early yet.

I get it. Being safe is probably the smart move. I think it's good to share what we'd do so we can B----- about it later! As I've done about my Metcalf and Deebo predictions last year (I wanted one or the other in the first).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think where you might see the Packers try to trade up is more the second round. Maybe they want to get into the top half of that round to assure themselves of one of the top 10 WR's or a guy they really like that slipped. But I agree with most, moving up to do that in Round 1 is too expensive and with this WR class probably not worth it considering how deep it is.

 

[tynimiller]

I think where you might see the Packers try to trade up is more the second round. Maybe they want to get into the top half of that round to assure themselves of one of the top 10 WR's or a guy they really like that slipped. But I agree with most, moving up to do that in Round 1 is too expensive and with this WR class probably not worth it considering how deep it is.

The limited number of TRUE STUD ILB and DL with OTs deep but top tier limited I honestly keep running the idea that at #30 I think we could be sitting at that spot that 4th or 5th QB is drafted by trading with us in order to get that 5th year option. This could move us into the early 2nd potentially....along with our already 2nd...and build some equity to STILL trade into the 2nd given the depth and/or availability. Call me crazy but this is a draft I see A TON of 2nd gems potentially...and three picks in the 2nd isn't insane....

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Obviously, what Gute is able to do with resigns and Free Agents, will somewhat guide what he does in the draft. But then again, who expected him to sign two starting free agent OLB's in the Smith Brothers and then use the 12th pick in the draft on another one (Gary)? That might be a pick that will forever haunt Gute, especially if Gary doesn't work out. Then again, when you look at who was picked after Gary, did he really whiff THAT much? Maybe in hind site he would have been better off addressing the DL at that time with either Lawrence or Simmons. Or if he could have found a trade partner, traded the 12th pick for a bevy bunch of other later picks, oh well.

https://sports.yahoo.com/grading-2019-nfl-firstround-draft-picks-after-rookie-year-153249427.html