Winston Moss

[GleefulGary]

Yes, they do owe us. If they don't owe us anything they can play their games in the middle of empty stadiums. And collect game checks of $0.

Well in that case lets start demanding playbooks, meeting transcripts, and all other information pertaining to their day to day. I mean, they do owe us everything, right?

 

[GleefulGary]

With this logic we should be on hands and knees thanking our farmers. After all, they provide us with everything we eat! Or do they owe us because we’re purchasing the food so they can make a living? Tricky tricky.

 

[AmishMafia]

You guys are missing it

Winston moss. Winston is a brand of cigarettes

Moss. A rolling stone gathers no moss. Rolling stones sang Sympathy for the Devil. The Devil is in the details. A great car wash is getting it detailed. This includes cleaning out the ash trays. Which are dirty from the Winston cigarettes.

Everything comes around, doesn’t it?

 

[Mondio]

^^^ This guy is doing the Bull Dance, feeling the flow

 

[Mondio]

With this logic we should be on hands and knees thanking our farmers. After all, they provide us with everything we eat! Or do they owe us because we’re purchasing the food so they can make a living? Tricky tricky.

one of my first thoughts

 

[Half Empty]

With this logic we should be on hands and knees thanking our farmers. After all, they provide us with everything we eat! Or do they owe us because we’re purchasing the food so they can make a living? Tricky tricky.

OK, I'll give it a shot.

Farmers, none of whom I personally know, produce the food without which (within reason) I'd starve. Hence, I certainly do thank farmers, in general. I'm also pretty sure that, if the current farmers decided not to produce my food any more, someone else would step in to produce (and sell) it. In addition to not knowing or caring who the farmers are, I rarely pay any attention to their plans for next year's crops. As they have already received payment for the food I eat, I'd say we're even.

Entertainers, including athletes, put forth a product I (sometimes) enjoy, but without which I could certainly survive. That product is also highly dependent upon my preference for and, hence, interest in, particular individuals. In return for that specific product I, either directly or indirectly, join with others of my kind to provide really high compensation to the entertainers. If I and the others choose to become upset with the providers (because they will no longer contribute to the flow of information that keeps us interested) and no longer contribute, we need to look elsewhere for entertainment and the players need to find real jobs.

I've used up the available space on my sheet, drawing charts and making notes, so I'll quit here. Bottom line, for me, is that there might be an analogy that works, but I don't think this is it.

 

[GleefulGary]

OK, I'll give it a shot.

Farmers, none of whom I personally know, produce the food without which (within reason) I'd starve. Hence, I certainly do thank farmers, in general. I'm also pretty sure that, if the current farmers decided not to produce my food any more, someone else would step in to produce (and sell) it. In addition to not knowing or caring who the farmers are, I rarely pay any attention to their plans for next year's crops. As they have already received payment for the food I eat, I'd say we're even.

Entertainers, including athletes, put forth a product I (sometimes) enjoy, but without which I could certainly survive. That product is also highly dependent upon my preference for and, hence, interest in, particular individuals. In return for that specific product I, either directly or indirectly, join with others of my kind to provide really high compensation to the entertainers. If I and the others choose to become upset with the providers (because they will no longer contribute to the flow of information that keeps us interested) and no longer contribute, we need to look elsewhere for entertainment and the players need to find real jobs.

I've used up the available space on my sheet, drawing charts and making notes, so I'll quit here. Bottom line, for me, is that there might be an analogy that works, but I don't think this is it.

There’s so much wrong with this that I don’t even know where to start.

But I’ll ask you this: How much information are you, the consumer, entitled to? Because under your argument, you should be asking for your team playbook. I mean, it is your right as the consumer to demand it.

And I can assure you that nobody is going to stop watching football because an assistant coach isn’t a pleasant interview during spring ball. It’s not news. Nobody actually cares.




/I’m a farmer
//thank me, *****

 

[PackerDNA]

Well in that case lets start demanding playbooks, meeting transcripts, and all other information pertaining to their day to day. I mean, they do owe us everything, right?

I don't think any body would expect to see playbooks and such for the obvious reasons. But every penny the NFL gets is from the fans. So yeah, they do owe everything to the fans, without whom there would be no NFL.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think any body would expect to see playbooks and such for the obvious reasons. But every penny the NFL gets is from the fans. So yeah, they do owe everything to the fans, without whom there would be no NFL.

it's not that linear of a relationship. They don't "owe" us anything. They put out a product and we choose to watch or not. like Janis said, nobody is going to stop watching because an assistant coach was unpleasant after a shorts and t-shirts practice in the spring. That's not why any of us watch. If it is, that person probably isn't sticking around long enough to be called a fan anyway.

The customer isn't always right, we don't get whatever we want when we want no matter how much we'd like to believe it. Coaches are there to coach players. all they "owe" us is that they get the most out of their players when games roll around. And their job performance doesn't get evaluated by us either, it gets evaluated by their boss(es). There is plenty of Packer news and coverage. there is nothing of substance this time of year that's good or can be used to see how November/December are going to play out. all the questions have been asked and answered 14,853 times since April and nothing will change until August in that regard, and then only slightly.

A bit of advice for reporters out there, not every story needs to be someone's interpretation and thoughts on something. How about you do some digging and give us YOUR take on something and present it to us. Go write a story about Vince and how he got to the NFL or how his offseason training is going to propel him to the field or keep him on the bench. Go find out why Gilbert was relegated to PS squad last year and how he's worked since to see the field last year and what he's doing now to make sure he's the first guy off the bench? go get to know someone and write about it. Quit sitting in a meaningless press conference and get pissy with assistants when they don't give you a good quote to use.

 

[PackerDNA]

If we don't watch, or go to games, or buy their merchandise, there's no NFL, and they'd have to get real jobs that don't pay them obscene amounts of money. If you're looking to branch off into philosophical arguments, I'll pass. My point is simply this; no money from the fans, no NFL.

 

[Mondio]

If we don't watch, or go to games, or buy their merchandise, there's no NFL, and they'd have to get real jobs that don't pay them obscene amounts of money. If you're looking to branch off into philosophical arguments, I'll pass. My point is simply this; no money from the fans, no NFL.

that's true, but nobody is a fan of the NFL for meaningless press conferences with assistant coaches. It's the product on the field. If I was tuning in to watch people talk i'd waste my time with **** shows like Hannity or The View or Donahue

and coaching an NFL position or team is a real job, like any other and probably more demanding than 90% of the people I know working today. Entertainment has been vital to any society from the time we stopped hunting and gathering, and even then, games and entertainment seemed to be popular when they were starving to death. I'd say entertainment is as vital as the guy making your computer, or the store selling it or the grocer that puts out your food, or the accountant that does my taxes, or the mechanic that keeps the boat going or the groundskeeper that keeps our park mowed and on and on on

 

[sschind]

You guys are missing it

Winston moss. Winston is a brand of cigarettes

Moss. A rolling stone gathers no moss. Rolling stones sang Sympathy for the Devil. The Devil is in the details. A great car wash is getting it detailed. This includes cleaning out the ash trays. Which are dirty from the Winston cigarettes.

Everything comes around, doesn’t it?

You need a hobby.


but it was good.

 

[sschind]

it's not that linear of a relationship. They don't "owe" us anything. They put out a product and we choose to watch or not. like Janis said, nobody is going to stop watching because an assistant coach was unpleasant after a shorts and t-shirts practice in the spring. That's not why any of us watch. If it is, that person probably isn't sticking around long enough to be called a fan anyway.

The customer isn't always right, we don't get whatever we want when we want no matter how much we'd like to believe it. Coaches are there to coach players. all they "owe" us is that they get the most out of their players when games roll around. And their job performance doesn't get evaluated by us either, it gets evaluated by their boss(es). There is plenty of Packer news and coverage. there is nothing of substance this time of year that's good or can be used to see how November/December are going to play out. all the questions have been asked and answered 14,853 times since April and nothing will change until August in that regard, and then only slightly.

A bit of advice for reporters out there, not every story needs to be someone's interpretation and thoughts on something. How about you do some digging and give us YOUR take on something and present it to us. Go write a story about Vince and how he got to the NFL or how his offseason training is going to propel him to the field or keep him on the bench. Go find out why Gilbert was relegated to PS squad last year and how he's worked since to see the field last year and what he's doing now to make sure he's the first guy off the bench? go get to know someone and write about it. Quit sitting in a meaningless press conference and get pissy with assistants when they don't give you a good quote to use.

Just don't ask any assistant coaches for their input.

Seriously, I agree with most of this. I am not a fan of reporters by any means and I don't feel sorry for them in the least when they are put in their place. In this case however I don't think the particular questions were out of line and I think Moss acted like a jerk. However, I can certainly envision a situation where I would be applauding WM for similar actions

 

[PackerDNA]

that's true, but nobody is a fan of the NFL for meaningless press conferences with assistant coaches. It's the product on the field. If I was tuning in to watch people talk i'd waste my time with **** shows like Hannity or The View or Donahue

and coaching an NFL position or team is a real job, like any other and probably more demanding than 90% of the people I know working today. Entertainment has been vital to any society from the time we stopped hunting and gathering, and even then, games and entertainment seemed to be popular when they were starving to death. I'd say entertainment is as vital as the guy making your computer, or the store selling it or the grocer that puts out your food, or the accountant that does my taxes, or the mechanic that keeps the boat going or the groundskeeper that keeps our park mowed and on and on on

There are plenty of forms of entertainment. The NFL- nor anything else- is not vital to that. I'm not trying to be obnoxious, Mondio; not even arguing your points or opinions.
As far as your observations on press conferences, couldn't agree more. Most are mundane, predictable, and don't accomplish anything, even during the season.

 

[Spanky]

Well in that case lets start demanding playbooks, meeting transcripts, and all other information pertaining to their day to day. I mean, they do owe us everything, right?

I was responding to your comment saying they don't owe us "anything." Never said they owe us "everything." But thanks for making a ridiculous point.

 

[AmishMafia]

You need a hobby.


but it was good.

Why single me out? There are people spending multiple minutes of their lives trying to argue what if anything a coach or a farmer owes its customers.

Man, when does training camp start?

 

[El Guapo]

It's Rabbit Season

 

[El Guapo]

It's Duck Season

 

[El Guapo]

Rabbit Season

 

[El Guapo]

Duck Season

 

[GleefulGary]

I was responding to your comment saying they don't owe us "anything." Never said they owe us "everything." But thanks for making a ridiculous point.

Where does it end? Does Nike owe me because I buy their shoes or do I owe them because they provide shoes? Do I owe the NFL because they provide me entertainment for a low cost, or do they owe me because consumers help provide their pay?

What you’re providing is simplified greed steeped in entitlement. “I bought tickets so I deserve this!” “I bought a jersey so I deserve this!” “I sacrifice my body for a game and money, you don’t deserve nothin.”

Pure entitlement. Be happy with what you got, be happy with what you get. Life is better that way.

 

[AmishMafia]

Duck Season

Blammmm!

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[Half Empty]

Where does it end? Does Nike owe me because I buy their shoes or do I owe them because they provide shoes? Do I owe the NFL because they provide me entertainment for a low cost, or do they owe me because consumers help provide their pay?

What you’re providing is simplified greed steeped in entitlement. “I bought tickets so I deserve this!” “I bought a jersey so I deserve this!” “I sacrifice my body for a game and money, you don’t deserve nothin.”

Pure entitlement. Be happy with what you got, be happy with what you get. Life is better that way.

I think I see a question I hadn't considered before. What IS the product? In the case of the farmer, it's food. In the case of Nike, it's shoes. In both cases, they produce, I buy/pay, and we're even. In the case of pro football, is the product the game, or is it also knowing more about the team playing it? For a movie star, is the product the film, or is it also TMZ, People, et.al.? Obviously, I feel that part of the reason we follow entertainers is to 'know' them, and fans hence deserve more. If it's just the game/movie, then I defer to your position. And, as before, that's the reason I don't care to know anything about the farmer or the folks who make Nikes - what the product I'm paying for isn't a question.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think I see a question I hadn't considered before. What IS the product? In the case of the farmer, it's food. In the case of Nike, it's shoes. In both cases, they produce, I buy/pay, and we're even. In the case of pro football, is the product the game, or is it also knowing more about the team playing it? For a movie star, is the product the film, or is it also TMZ, People, et.al.? Obviously, I feel that part of the reason we follow entertainers is to 'know' them, and fans hence deserve more. If it's just the game/movie, then I defer to your position. And, as before, that's the reason I don't care to know anything about the farmer or the folks who make Nikes - what the product I'm paying for isn't a question.

Good analogy.

In the case of movies, I could really care less about the back stories of the people making movies or really the process of making the movie. I choose from a wide a variety of genres, dependent on my mood at the time, I pay my $12 (or wait for it to hit Netflix) and watch what I hope is a good movie. 2 hours and a few bucks invested.

The Packers are a bit different for me, but I am sure some fans treat football a lot like movies. Watch when in the mood and could care less about what goes into "the making of each team".

Since I am only interested in one NFL team and that interest is beyond a casual interest, I like to look at all the moving parts and how that might effect the final product. Do I care what the players and coaches are doing off the field? Not really, as long as it doesn't negatively affect their abilities on the field.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I'm not sure how this thread got to where it is now, but Moss is an idiot and everything that I've hated about this organization. He's clearly very complacent with being simply a positional coach (I don't pay any mind to the "Associate HC/McCarthy's BFF title"), or else he would not represent himself and his employer this way. I'm sick of the stubborn ***** on this staff. It would be nice to see one coach whose passion or ability actually showed up on the field or in situations such as this. All I see are a bunch of older guys coasting on experience and an employer who really doesn't exercise accountability, and seems non-existent to a degree.