Will The Packers Making the Playoffs?

Calebs Revenge

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I thought we talked about that... I doubt you're more than 20 minute's drive from me; I'm in Boyle, and we also own a 12-acre horse farm in Mercer that we'll be trying to sell in the next month or so.
You're right I think we did talk about it because if you're in Boyle, I'm in Garrard Co. we are neighbors.
I know the game's gonna start in a few minutes. You wanna come over?
Hahahahahhahahhahahhha
 

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I know we root for different teams but come on we've started like 40 quarterbacks in da time that y'all have had three......we're effin due.

Yes, by the law of averages you are due but if you look at history and trends Caleb is very likely to follow along the lines of Grossman, Fields, Cutler, McNown, Orton, etc... Good luck!

I just have to say it. If you look at the left hand side of your avatar it looks a lot more like the Chicago bares helmet emblem than the Packers one.
 

Calebs Revenge

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Yes, by the law of averages you are due but if you look at history and trends Caleb is very likely to follow along the lines of Grossman, Fields, Cutler, McNown, Orton, etc... Good luck!

I just have to say it. If you look at the left hand side of your avatar it looks a lot more like the Chicago bares helmet emblem than the Packers one.
I don't know. He looked pretty good on the first drive tonight!!!!!!!
 

Calebs Revenge

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My guys are looking pretty sharp tonight!!!! !
Bagent throws a toe tapper to Scott in the back of the end zone!!!!!
21-0 good guys!!!!!!
 

Calebs Revenge

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Yes, by the law of averages you are due but if you look at history and trends Caleb is very likely to follow along the lines of Grossman, Fields, Cutler, McNown, Orton, etc... Good luck!

I just have to say it. If you look at the left hand side of your avatar it looks a lot more like the Chicago bares helmet emblem than the Packers one.
My guy looked on point tonight though.....
 

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Using a gun in a situation where deadly force is involved is a far cry from shooting at targets. Until you live in that moment you don't know how you'll respond to the fight-or-flight situation in front of you. Thinking you can handle it is the sign of a foolish person. I saw a lot of them in Vietnam. Even a few in police work. It's not a situation where the average person will automatically react the way they should or could. Being afraid is not a sign of weakness, it's the real response people should have while being a hero is not.
Truth. No one knows how they will act until it hits the fan. I had a guy who worked for me a few years ago get gunned down in a road rage incident. Not sure what happened to precipitate it, but the two cars ended up at a stoplight. Supposedly, my guy rolled down the window and made some comment about putting a cap in the guy's a**. Anyway, the story the guy says is my guy reached for something, so he pulled out his 9mm and emptied the mag. Hit my guy 4 times and a car going the other direction twice. Missing a kid in a car seat by inches. My guy was reaching for his phone. He got away with it. Said he feared for his life. He had other options. He could have driven away. Or made a right hand turn into the parking lot like he did after he emptied his gun.

 

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I think it was all 1s against all 2s. But still. Looks like the bears are gonna use their rookie tight end.
I believe it was. But you can still evaluate them. The rest of the game, the Bears looked pretty good. I think the Bears may have found a coach and QB he can coach. So the only question is if they did, and the Bears are good this year, one team won't make the playoffs.
 

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Truth. No one knows how they will act until it hits the fan. I had a guy who worked for me a few years ago get gunned down in a road rage incident. Not sure what happened to precipitate it, but the two cars ended up at a stoplight. Supposedly, my guy rolled down the window and made some comment about putting a cap in the guy's a**. Anyway, the story the guy says is my guy reached for something, so he pulled out his 9mm and emptied the mag. Hit my guy 4 times and a car going the other direction twice. Missing a kid in a car seat by inches. My guy was reaching for his phone. He got away with it. Said he feared for his life. He had other options. He could have driven away. Or made a right hand turn into the parking lot like he did after he emptied his gun.

I did a deeper dive into that situation. It was like a perfect storm of things that caused it to go off the rails. An armed combat vet feeling he's being threatened, and a man who may have been impaired by legitimate meds who was triggered by what was probably next to nothing into making a brash statement. I can see why they didn't pursue charges.

The moment you threaten what could be deadly force against another person, what could happen next is pretty much what you caused to happen without realizing the consequences.

People need to learn to be a lot more careful picking their words when they are having a disagreement with someone.
 
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:whistling: My guy looked on point tonight though.....
I would say so!
Oh!? Just one more thing! Yiu know it’s funny, because as I reviewed that game? It was really more Tyson Bagent wasn’t it? Caleb posted 6 total receptions and 1 TD? Am I reading that correctly he missed 4 throws? If anything, it was Bagent and the RB group that logged near 400 yards.

Anyway it’s good to stomp on a team like Buffalo, that always feels good.

I was just as impressed with the Packers 2nd/3rd string in that 2nd half at Indy. They marched TD, TD, TD and oh what a difference playing their bench made. Imagine had our backups played their backups for an entire game?. We’re talking what? at minimum 34-6? Maybe pacing 42-12? That’s backups!

Imagine had our starters played their backups for 4 Qtrs!


84-0! !!!

100-6! :coffee:



 
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Calebs Revenge

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I would say so!
Oh!? Just one more thing! Yiu know it’s funny, because as I reviewed that game? It was really more Tyson Bagent wasn’t it? Caleb posted 6 total receptions and 1 TD? Am I reading that correctly he missed 4 throws? If anything, it was Bagent and the RB group that logged near 400 yards.

Anyway it’s good to stomp on a team like Buffalo, that always feels good.

I was just as impressed with the Packers 2nd/3rd string in that 2nd half at Indy. They marched TD, TD, TD and oh what a difference playing their bench made. Imagine had our backups played their backups for an entire game?. We’re talking what? at minimum 34-6? Maybe pacing 42-12? That’s backups!

Imagine had our starters played their backups for 4 Qtrs!


84-0! !!!

100-6! :coffee:
We're saving some of that juice for the regular season......
I will say, though I'm very sad and disheartened to say that I was right about Terrell Smith injury number 32 from last night blew out his knee and Will miss the season..... which is going to hurt because he was fighting for number three but probably would've been the number four cornerback on the team going into the season and depending on health could've been shoved into a starting role and given moment and he was playing well so far and looked legitimately like he was maybe a gem hidden on our depth chart and who knows maybe even be Tyreek for a starting position but will have to wait till next year. Thoughts and prayers are with you young man because I know he's going to be emotionally destroyed for a while while he processes what the next year is gonna look like, but hopefully he and his support system and the Bears get him healthy and back on that horse and will see you next year my guy!!!!
 
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I did a deeper dive into that situation. It was like a perfect storm of things that caused it to go off the rails. An armed combat vet feeling he's being threatened, and a man who may have been impaired by legitimate meds who was triggered by what was probably next to nothing into making a brash statement. I can see why they didn't pursue charges.

The moment you threaten what could be deadly force against another person, what could happen next is pretty much what you caused to happen without realizing the consequences.

People need to learn to be a lot more careful picking their words when they are having a disagreement with someone.
Quick observation. The Victim tried to accelerate away from the shooter last second. The first grouping of suits were. All together and from just behind the front passengers door. As shots rang the victims vehicle rolled forward. As seen by several shots through the Back passenger compartment. Know way was anyone a threat after a Dozen rounds and the car pulling away and it appears the victim tried to remove himself after the shots began to ring.
Yet the shooter kept firing until empty. Also he never saw a weapon, so it’s pretty much ones man’s word against a dead victim who has no opportunity to tell his side. Also it obviously an unarmed man.
This guy didn’t back him in a corner either, he’s got the means to remove himself and he chose to get even instead.

If that’s legal? I’ll just go shoot unarmed people I don’t like in a parking lot and say they shouted “I’ll kill you!” Pretty much the wild Wild West there. Surprised he wasn’t charged there with at minimum voluntary manslaughter.
 
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Voyageur

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Quick observation. The Victim tried to accelerate away from the shooter last second. The first grouping of suits were. All together and from just behind the front passengers door. As shots rang the victims vehicle rolled forward. As seen by several shots through the Back passenger compartment. Know way was anyone a threat after a Dozen rounds and the car pulling away and it appears the victim tried to remove himself after the shots began to ring.
Yet the shooter kept firing until empty. Also he never saw a weapon, so it’s pretty much ones man’s word against a dead victim who has no opportunity to tell his side. Also it obviously an unarmed man.
This guy didn’t back him in a corner either, he’s got the means to remove himself and he chose to get even instead.

If that’s legal? I’ll just go shoot unarmed people I don’t like in a parking lot and say they shouted “I’ll kill you!” Pretty much the wild Wild West there. Surprised he wasn’t charged there with at minimum voluntary manslaughter.
There's much more to it than what you stated. Here's an article about it that mentions briefly a couple of things but doesn't give full details. It's a little more in depth than the media reports because they will never be told the full scope and details of the investigation. There are more than likely witness statements that would indicate things that have not been divulged and wouldn't be except in a court room. The names of witnesses and their statements is not offered to the public for fear of reprisals against them by those who disagree with what they say, even if it's only because of personal bias. Those details will probably never come to light. But you can rest assured the prosecutors have copies of them and it had an effect on their decision.

People who are against the stand your ground law are up in arms about it while those who believe in it are supporting Mr. Santori's right to defend himself.

In neither of these cases is their opinion unbiased. What was unbiased was the decision of the prosecutors that they did not have a solid enough case to pursue a manslaughter charge because of extenuation circumstances and the Florida stand your ground law which says he did not have to retreat to avoid the confrontation.


 
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There's much more to it than what you stated. Here's an article about it that mentions briefly a couple of things but doesn't give full details. It's a little more in depth than the media reports because they will never be told the full scope and details of the investigation. There are more than likely witness statements that would indicate things that have not been divulged and wouldn't be except in a court room. The names of witnesses and their statements is not offered to the public for fear of reprisals against them by those who disagree with what they say, even if it's only because of personal bias. Those details will probably never come to light. But you can rest assured the prosecutors have copies of them and it had an effect on their decision.

People who are against the stand your ground law are up in arms about it while those who believe in it are supporting Mr. Santori's right to defend himself.

In neither of these cases is their opinion unbiased. What was unbiased was the decision of the prosecutors that they did not have a solid enough case to pursue a manslaughter charge because of extenuation circumstances and the Florida stand your ground law which says he did not have to retreat to avoid the confrontation.


I see. It’s certainly a weird or volatile situation I don’t doubt that. Once we start getting people deputizing themselves though it’s a concern. While some might say it’s for the greater good.. we didn’t know anything about this character until long after this shooting. Not to mention the shooter obviously has no training and very nearly killed innocent persons in the crossfire. If that was someone’s family in that other vehicle we might look differently if this dangerous situation. Quit playing auto vigilante and call 911 or get a license plate. No need to invite a conversation (purposely rolling down window and confronting him with a loaded weapon in hand) after watching someone playing bumper cars it’s called looking for trouble. Here it might’ve been a rare win for society. Next time it’ll be kids in a back seat dead.

Oh I trust you Voyager, is has nothing to do with that. You’ve got adequate training or knowledge to intervene or experience to determine a course of action. Most people are just looking for revenge etc.
 
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There's much more to it than what you stated. Here's an article about it that mentions briefly a couple of things but doesn't give full details. It's a little more in depth than the media reports because they will never be told the full scope and details of the investigation. There are more than likely witness statements that would indicate things that have not been divulged and wouldn't be except in a court room. The names of witnesses and their statements is not offered to the public for fear of reprisals against them by those who disagree with what they say, even if it's only because of personal bias. Those details will probably never come to light. But you can rest assured the prosecutors have copies of them and it had an effect on their decision.

People who are against the stand your ground law are up in arms about it while those who believe in it are supporting Mr. Santori's right to defend himself.

In neither of these cases is their opinion unbiased. What was unbiased was the decision of the prosecutors that they did not have a solid enough case to pursue a manslaughter charge because of extenuation circumstances and the Florida stand your ground law which says he did not have to retreat to avoid the confrontation.


The stand you ground law as good and bad sides to it. Do I think he should have been charged? Well, I'm biased because I knew the victim. So there is no way I can separate myself from knowing him. All I know is that the man who told me of his run-ins with the law before I hired him was working on getting his life back together. And I never believed the statement about what he said. The Dennis I knew didn't speak like that. But then, that was at work. The interesting part of this is that my next-door neighbor knew the shooter from skydiving. And he wasn't surprised the guy shot.
 

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The stand you ground law as good and bad sides to it. Do I think he should have been charged? Well, I'm biased because I knew the victim. So there is no way I can separate myself from knowing him. All I know is that the man who told me of his run-ins with the law before I hired him was working on getting his life back together. And I never believed the statement about what he said. The Dennis I knew didn't speak like that. But then, that was at work. The interesting part of this is that my next-door neighbor knew the shooter from skydiving. And he wasn't surprised the guy shot.
I think your next-door neighbor was right in his assessment of Santori. His military background made it more likely that he would pull out a gun and open fire like he did. It's something that all cops who are ex-combat military personnel have to deal with before they can transition to the role of protector instead of punisher. That's what I alluded to earlier as being part of "the perfect storm." There were so many things that happened here and in today's society, we've even seen combat vets being let off on murder charges because of PTSD and Santori had that diagnosis in his background.

To stop things like this, we need to crack down on who will be able to carry weapons and when. In fact, there are those who believe nobody should carry them except law enforcement personnel and that massive prison sentences should be added to even having one in your possession if there's any kind of an altercation.

Your assessment of the law itself is exactly right. There is good and bad within the law. Good because now people don't have to fear being assaulted and potentially killed without being able to protect themselves. Then comes a situation like this one that tests that law and you ask yourself if the law is protecting killers.

As I looked at the pattern, or should I say random points of impact from all those shots taken, I can see a shooter who had lost control of his ability to comprehend what he was doing. He didn't just shoot in self-defense; he emptied his weapon in what could be considered a state of panic. No thought whatsoever of where those bullets were flying, just firing in panic.

I can relate to an incident I was involved in as a cop. I received a radio call to back one of our officers who had found an open back door at a strip mall pharmacy while doing his building checks. When I got there, I joined him outside the entryway, and we discussed how we'd enter the building to do an inspection. Since he was first on the scene and a senior officer to me, I did more listening than suggesting. It was his call. He was a combat vet, having spent over two-years in combat during the Korean War. He hadn't been promoted to Sergeant because he had some quirks that sometimes made it difficult for him to work with others, let alone supervise them in any capacity. When a 3rd unit was arriving, then a 4th, he told them to cover the front entrance in case someone tried to escape through those doors. Then we went in, him taking point. What happened inside that pharmacy after we got in could only be described as chaos as he emptied his revolver into an upright blood pressure machine that he thought was someone lurking in the shadows intent on killing us. Of the five-shots, only one actually hit the machine while the other four struck locations up to 4 ft. away from his intended target. Adrenalin had kicked in and he gave in to it and just fired his gun at something he perceived as a threat.

Immediately after it happened, he gained control of himself and acted as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened. Because of his actions, he ended up going through a psychological examination and two psychiatrists came to the same conclusion, he had been suffering from PTSD for over 20 years. He was put on leave from the force and never returned to the street again, being assigned to desk duty until he retired. Santori acted like that. A total lack of control when he was unloading that clip then acting like what he did immediately afterwards as totally within normal limits.

Sorry! Didn't mean to make this a long post but it ended up that way.
 

Voyageur

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I see. It’s certainly a weird or volatile situation I don’t doubt that. Once we start getting people deputizing themselves though it’s a concern. While some might say it’s for the greater good.. we didn’t know anything about this character until long after this shooting. Not to mention the shooter obviously has no training and very nearly killed innocent persons in the crossfire. If that was someone’s family in that other vehicle we might look differently if this dangerous situation. Quit playing auto vigilante and call 911 or get a license plate. No need to invite a conversation (purposely rolling down window and confronting him with a loaded weapon in hand) after watching someone playing bumper cars it’s called looking for trouble. Here it might’ve been a rare win for society. Next time it’ll be kids in a back seat dead.

Oh I trust you Voyager, is has nothing to do with that. You’ve got adequate training or knowledge to intervene or experience to determine a course of action. Most people are just looking for revenge etc.
I full heartedly agree. This law has been written in a way that makes it way too easy to abuse its intent. That's the problem when you allow people to act like vigilantes, meting out what they think is "justice."
 

Calebs Revenge

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Hah.... flattered, but I don't think I'd be welcome there beyond the national anthem and opening kickoff. It would all go downhill from there.... :p
hey, but seriously if you want to get together for the Bears Packers game, I think we can both be civil and gentlemen and have a good time and maybe place a friendly wager on a game of bags or darts while the game is going on.......
I'm sure there's a sports bar in Danville we could "throw down" at hahahahahha
 

Calebs Revenge

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Besides, how much of a kick would the rest of our mad lad savages get that you actually got to meet the living legend "Caleb's Revenge" in real life!!!!!!
 

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I think your next-door neighbor was right in his assessment of Santori. His military background made it more likely that he would pull out a gun and open fire like he did. It's something that all cops who are ex-combat military personnel have to deal with before they can transition to the role of protector instead of punisher. That's what I alluded to earlier as being part of "the perfect storm." There were so many things that happened here and in today's society, we've even seen combat vets being let off on murder charges because of PTSD and Santori had that diagnosis in his background.

To stop things like this, we need to crack down on who will be able to carry weapons and when. In fact, there are those who believe nobody should carry them except law enforcement personnel and that massive prison sentences should be added to even having one in your possession if there's any kind of an altercation.

Your assessment of the law itself is exactly right. There is good and bad within the law. Good because now people don't have to fear being assaulted and potentially killed without being able to protect themselves. Then comes a situation like this one that tests that law and you ask yourself if the law is protecting killers.

As I looked at the pattern, or should I say random points of impact from all those shots taken, I can see a shooter who had lost control of his ability to comprehend what he was doing. He didn't just shoot in self-defense; he emptied his weapon in what could be considered a state of panic. No thought whatsoever of where those bullets were flying, just firing in panic.

I can relate to an incident I was involved in as a cop. I received a radio call to back one of our officers who had found an open back door at a strip mall pharmacy while doing his building checks. When I got there, I joined him outside the entryway, and we discussed how we'd enter the building to do an inspection. Since he was first on the scene and a senior officer to me, I did more listening than suggesting. It was his call. He was a combat vet, having spent over two-years in combat during the Korean War. He hadn't been promoted to Sergeant because he had some quirks that sometimes made it difficult for him to work with others, let alone supervise them in any capacity. When a 3rd unit was arriving, then a 4th, he told them to cover the front entrance in case someone tried to escape through those doors. Then we went in, him taking point. What happened inside that pharmacy after we got in could only be described as chaos as he emptied his revolver into an upright blood pressure machine that he thought was someone lurking in the shadows intent on killing us. Of the five-shots, only one actually hit the machine while the other four struck locations up to 4 ft. away from his intended target. Adrenalin had kicked in and he gave in to it and just fired his gun at something he perceived as a threat.

Immediately after it happened, he gained control of himself and acted as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened. Because of his actions, he ended up going through a psychological examination and two psychiatrists came to the same conclusion, he had been suffering from PTSD for over 20 years. He was put on leave from the force and never returned to the street again, being assigned to desk duty until he retired. Santori acted like that. A total lack of control when he was unloading that clip then acting like what he did immediately afterwards as totally within normal limits.

Sorry! Didn't mean to make this a long post but it ended up that way.
Well, back then, guys were supposed to "suck it up" and just deal with their issues. My Dad was a Korean War vet. Part of Task Force Smith. Came home in June of '52. Tried to go deer hunting when he got back. Bought himself a shotgun, went out in the woods, and never fired the gun. As far as I know, he never fired it. Between the sound of guns in the woods, and, well, what he said was, "I saw the deer and I couldn't shoot it". Just deal with it. As I kid I remember the blood-curdling screams coming from him in the middle of the night. As my mom said, "Dad's nightmares". I didn't understand it until I was a bit older. I always remember something my dad said. We were watching a war movie, and someone bayoneted a guy, and just pulled it out. "It's not that easy. Know the easiest way to get a bayonet out? Load a round and pull the trigger." That's when I really started to understand the nightmares. Also, one of the reasons I joined the Air Force. If we do personal combat, things have gone really bad.

I sometimes wonder about my neighbor across the street. Several tours in the sandbox, and two knife kills. It's one thing to shoot someone, but damn, to kill someone with a knife in hand-to-hand combat? How do you get past that?

IF I ever have to shoot, I hope I have control and don't have to kill anyone. Not something I want to carry with me. But you never know how you will react until it hits the fan.
 

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Well, back then, guys were supposed to "suck it up" and just deal with their issues. My Dad was a Korean War vet. Part of Task Force Smith. Came home in June of '52. Tried to go deer hunting when he got back. Bought himself a shotgun, went out in the woods, and never fired the gun. As far as I know, he never fired it. Between the sound of guns in the woods, and, well, what he said was, "I saw the deer and I couldn't shoot it". Just deal with it. As I kid I remember the blood-curdling screams coming from him in the middle of the night. As my mom said, "Dad's nightmares". I didn't understand it until I was a bit older. I always remember something my dad said. We were watching a war movie, and someone bayoneted a guy, and just pulled it out. "It's not that easy. Know the easiest way to get a bayonet out? Load a round and pull the trigger." That's when I really started to understand the nightmares. Also, one of the reasons I joined the Air Force. If we do personal combat, things have gone really bad.

I sometimes wonder about my neighbor across the street. Several tours in the sandbox, and two knife kills. It's one thing to shoot someone, but damn, to kill someone with a knife in hand-to-hand combat? How do you get past that?

IF I ever have to shoot, I hope I have control and don't have to kill anyone. Not something I want to carry with me. But you never know how you will react until it hits the fan.
Most people don't see it. Your dad was an American hero. Task Force Smith took so many casualties. They were real fighting men. I had an old friend who was one of the Marines who was part of the march from Chosin Reservoir to safety. He lost a couple of fingers and a couple of toes to frostbite and suffered three wounds. Yet he made the march and spent a lot of time on ridges beside the column to keep the Chinese from ambushing the main column. His awards from the action were numerous. He never escaped the cold night sweats and visions that haunted him. Like me, he could never watch a war movie until one day when we sat down with a case of beer and watched Apocalypse Now. During the movie, we talked, and a lot of his demons came out and were driven away. I did nothing to make that happen, he did. He killed his own demons and helped me see where I was still having problems as well.

WWII, Korea, and Vietnam vets haven't been "allowed" to have PTSD. If we admitted having it and sought help, it was like putting a label on the person saying they were a "reject," and could not be trusted with jobs like police work, or anything dealing with interface with the public. Sad but true. I know of two guys who went from WWII vets, into police careers that lasted over 30 years. Both went through several marriages, and when they were finally forced out of police work into retirement, they couldn't handle it. Their whole focus and lives were in the work, and the only friends they had in this world was the blue circle which they were part of. When you leave the profession, you leave that circle and it closes behind you. Those old friends slowly drift away and eventually you never hear from them again. Both of these men ended up ending their own lives because of their demons.

I vowed that wouldn't happen to me, and I vowed the same thing for my son who served as a combat medic in Afghanistan and came home with a partial disability that he did not choose to have. When he was in Afghanistan, we skyped a minimum of 5 times a week and sometimes twice that often, depending on what he was doing at any given time. It really messed with my sleep because of the time difference between the Midwest and there but it was necessary. The entire time he was over there I kept my laptop turned on sitting beside my bed when I slept so I'd wake up whenever he contacted me. I also found a person who worked with a company that supplied product to dollar stores throughout Wisconsin, who gave me amazing amounts of candy, gum, and everything else that soldiers would want, and my wife and I would send anywhere from one to 4 boxes a week over to him to share with his mates. He showed a picture to me on Skype. It was in his aide room where he worked. Shelves covered with things from home that he shared with everyone at his firebase. We received dozens of thank you messages from members of his unit when they returned to the states. Like my son said, so many families didn't have the ability to put packages like that together and his fellow soldiers felt like it was shipments from their own families.

You understand the way trauma can cause a person pain and to go off the rails. You saw it up close and personal. I hope your dad finally found peace from all of it. By the way, he was right about how you pull a bayonet out of a person. It can wedge between ribs, and even the blade itself has an indent portion that will allow air to enter the cavity if you swing the rifle back and forth to let air in, so it isn't held there by the vacuum created when you pull it out. That's something that only combat vets would understand.
 

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Vero Beach, FL
Those old friends slowly drift away and eventually you never hear from them again. Both of these men ended up ending their own lives because of their demons.
We lose too many this way. People don't understand that you don't have to talk, just listen to them. Let them unload. Be the sounding board and be supportive. Only they can kill the demons. Some never do and live with it their whole lives. I know my father did. The one word he hated more than anything was "****". He felt it was the worst word in the world. He lost too many ROK "friends". He also told me, "Never fight the Turks." You want them on your side.
 
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