Why is Sean Payton considered a better HC than MM?

[Forget Favre]

I really don't care which is considered the better HC, I just want to see McCarthy win another Super Bowl. If he does and Payton doesn’t that will, or should, end the discussion. But I won't care if it does or not. What I find interesting is at the time of McCarthy’s hiring, Sean Payton not only interviewed for the job but really thought he may get it. Thompson zeroed in on two very good HCs. This is from a Vandermause article written in February of 2010:

http://archive.greenbaypressgazette...reen-Bay-Packers-New-Orleans-Saints-lot-alike

Reading the article knowing what happens about one year after it was written…

If Payton had come to GB then I wonder if Bountygate would have happened either in GB or still for the Taints or maybe it wouldn't have happened at all.
Things would have been different and it would have been interesting.
I dunno but Mike just feels like a better fit for GB with his low key approach and I'm glad it worked out the way it did.
I still question his play calling decisions at times though.

 

[weeds]

Piggybacking off what others have said, I think it has everything to do with this:

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MM is the most under-the-radar coach in the National Football League. His persona is very vanilla by emotional standards; unlike Bill Belichick, he cooperates with the media fully, but doesn't give away many trade secrets and toes his party line diligently. He does little to draw attention to himself, doesn't have outlandish antics on the sideline, doesn't make overly emotional speeches in the locker room and, in fact, leaves most of the motivational moments and roles to his players.

The less interesting, the less scrutiny, the less appreciation.

Excellent analysis--right on.

 

[Powarun]

McCarthy seems like a better fit for Rodgers, and he tries to be coy and unresponsive to the media. Sounds very PC.
Payton not so much, and really think he could of done a lot with Favre and may of passed on Rodgers.

 

[Forget Favre]

They are close in success, but Payton is a RAH RAH coach. The one that yells and screams alot. People buy into his big personality and give him more credit. Its why you still hear Grudens name for possible coaching positions

Yep! It's what fans want to see and it kind of makes sense. If we're sitting at home on pins and needles and being emotional, how the heck can the coach be seen on TV not screaming, right?

I agree about Gruden also. I laugh at the "We want Gruden as our coach!" crap. Really? ...and what makes a person think he's a fantastic coach?

As much as I like watching coaches getting animated and excited, I also like seeing Mike being calm as he looks as if he is holding it all together and being centered.
I wonder if he chews out, curses or yells at players in training camp or practice?

Gruden did win a Super Bowl with a team that was known for being lousy for many years prior to that and he coached our previous SB winning QB.
And being a weekly prime time color commentator doesn't hurt either.

 

[Raptorman]

If you look at the top coaches in the poll, or whatever you want to call it, I would be willing to bet that almost all of them have one thing in common. A good QB on their team. Now, I have not looked at the links yet but I would be willing to bet that is the case. As to Payton, when he came to NO, his best move was to get Brees. Just how well do you think they would have done with someone else at QB? What happens to NO if Brees goes down and they have to start McCown for the rest of the year? Still a top coach?

 

[NOMOFO]

If you look at the top coaches in the poll, or whatever you want to call it, I would be willing to bet that almost all of them have one thing in common. A good QB on their team. Now, I have not looked at the links yet but I would be willing to bet that is the case. As to Payton, when he came to NO, his best move was to get Brees. Just how well do you think they would have done with someone else at QB? What happens to NO if Brees goes down and they have to start McCown for the rest of the year? Still a top coach?

...or is brees as good if he had lovie smith as his coach?

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

As we are playing the Saints on Sunday night, I spent a litte bit of time comparing the careers of MM and Sean Payton. They are extremely similar.

Year hired
MM- 2006
Payton- 2006

Regular Season Record and Winning Percentage
MM- 87-47-1, .649
Payton- 75-43, .636

Playoff Record
MM- 6-5
Payton- 6-4

Division Titles
MM- 4
Payton- 3

Lombardi Trophies
MM- 1
Payton- 1

Challenge Success Rate
MM- 48.5%
Payton- 42.0%

Yet, as you'll see in the NFL Head Coach power ranking below, Payton is consistently ranked above MM. In the three rankings, MM came in at 6, 6 and 9. Payton came in at 5, 2, and 4. They both have future HOF, have run high powered offenses and both have had suspect defenses. Why does Payton get more credit than MM?

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap2000000365040
http://cover32.com/2014/02/04/power-rankings-rating-nfl-head-coaches-from-1-32/
http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap1000000208735

Just fodder from people who need to sell advertising. Things like this mean absolutely nothing.

 

[Raptorman]

...or is brees as good if he had lovie smith as his coach?

Well in San Diego he was throwing to Kenen McCardell, Eric Parker, Tim Dwight, and Curtis Conway. When he went to NO he had Marques Colston, Joe Horn, Devery Henderson, and Lance Moore. I think in NO he had better WR and a better OC more than anything else. Overall his stats did improve but not that much.

 

[ivo610]

Gruden won a SB with someone else's team, a well respected coach who went on to win one for himself. In Tampa he accumulated a .500 record.
How does being out of coaching for 5 years not hurt him?

 

[red4tribe]

Gruden won a SB with someone else's team, a well respected coach who went on to win one for himself. In Tampa he accumulated a .500 record.
How does being out of coaching for 5 years not hurt him?

There seems to be a trend with any former coaches that have won a Super Bowl. They are always highly coveted, hence Gruden, Cowher, Holmgren, Parcells, Shannahan, etc always being in the discussion for new jobs.

 

[ivo610]

There seems to be a trend with any former coaches that have won a Super Bowl. They are always highly coveted, hence Gruden, Cowher, Holmgren, Parcells, Shannahan, etc always being in the discussion for new jobs.

well known media names and idiot owners who buy into hype. coaches have a shelf life, plus none have won a SB with 2 different teams.

 

[Powarun]

well known media names and idiot owners who buy into hype. coaches have a shelf life, plus none have won a SB with 2 different teams.

I just want to highlight "Idiot owners" I kind of think thats the key

Well can we give some credit to MM for making the playoffs even though he had 4 starting QB's in one season, while that was practically pure luck, MM deserves some credit and following a Super bowl win with a 15-1 season. Really feel MM is under rated as a coach. Payton has earned his hype, especially getting the Saints to where they are at, even if he was suspended for playing unfair. On the bright side it was Payton's Saints that had that awesome win versus the Vikings, giving that fan base the Favre experience.

 

[Forget Favre]

On the bright side it was Payton's Saints that had that awesome win versus the Vikings, giving that fan base the Favre experience.

When you look back at it all, it's funny how many Vikings fans thought that they were sticking it to us with BrINT leading the "Hate Packers" charge.
And then when he does to them what he did to us after all these years, a real true Packers fan should be glad they got our sloppy seconds after all! SKLOL!

 

[Packerlover]

MM is a way better coach than Payton.

Brees MADE Payton

 

[red4tribe]

When you look back at it all, it's funny how many Vikings fans thought that they were sticking it to us with BrINT leading the "Hate Packers" charge.
And then when he does to them what he did to us after all these years, a real true Packers fan should be glad they got our sloppy seconds after all! SKLOL!

Not that Favre didn't throw a ton of terrible interceptions in his career, but I never have believed he was the reason they lost to the Saints. The Vikings fumbled the ball six times that game, and lost four of them. You will not win when you do that. The fumbles were far important in the Vikings losing than Favre's pick.

 

[ivo610]

Not that Favre didn't throw a ton of terrible interceptions in his career, but I never have believed he was the reason they lost to the Saints. The Vikings fumbled the ball six times that game, and lost four of them. You will not win when you do that. The fumbles were far important in the Vikings losing than Favre's pick.

The timing of bretts was by far worse

 

[ivo610]

just in case you wanted to see it again... one of my top 3 favorite vikings moments

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[NOMOFO]

The timing of bretts was by far worse

Exactly. It's like the Jay Cutler debate in Chicago. He's got his apologists like bretint had. When teams tie up giant junks of their salary on superstars like this they sure as heck better be reliable in crunch time. The expectation is that they'll be the best on the field in crunch time. With BRentInt and Cutler they'll let you down more often than not.

 

[Forget Favre]

Not that Favre didn't throw a ton of terrible interceptions in his career, but I never have believed he was the reason they lost to the Saints. The Vikings fumbled the ball six times that game, and lost four of them. You will not win when you do that. The fumbles were far important in the Vikings losing than Favre's pick.

It all added up to the loss however what BrINT did ends up being more memorable.
Probably because that was on the last chance and if the Taints hadn't intercepted, Vikings would have won.
Either way, that was going to be the main highlight from that game.

 

[WRECKER]

I'd say the lack of bonehead and gadget playcalls at the wrong times.

 

[Zeck180]

Unlike MM Peyton has a habit to run the score up and inflate the stats. 2011 against the Colts, he keeps the starters in until like 3 mins left in the game.

 

[Forget Favre]

MM is the better coach because he never cheated.
Screw Payton and the Taints.
Paid-a-ton got off way too easy.
Should have been fired and the SB title should have been stripped.

 

[PackwillBEback]

I will say this though, and I do like MM a lot (even though some times he makes me get angry), but in general there are perceptions about bigger people that don't make them look favorable over someone similar but not as big.

 

[adambr2]

MM is the better coach because he never cheated.
Screw Payton and the Taints.
Paid-a-ton got off way too easy.
Should have been fired and the SB title should have been stripped.

Stripped of the SB title? Come on. The bounty program wasn't "cheating", it was unethical.

I cannot imagine the nightmare precedent it would set if you actually took the Saints SB title away. Many teams had a bounty program in some form or another at some point in the SB era. Shouldn't they take the Cowboys 90's titles away then too?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

If you look at the top coaches in the poll, or whatever you want to call it, I would be willing to bet that almost all of them have one thing in common. A good QB on their team. Now, I have not looked at the links yet but I would be willing to bet that is the case. As to Payton, when he came to NO, his best move was to get Brees. Just how well do you think they would have done with someone else at QB? What happens to NO if Brees goes down and they have to start McCown for the rest of the year? Still a top coach?

Not sure I buy that, remember how poor the Saints offense looked when Payton was suspended. Saints went 7-9 that year after going 13-3 the year prior and they then went 11-5 when Payton came back. I'd say that argues pretty strongly for how important Payton is.

As for ranks among coaches, I generally think MM is probably middle-of-the-road. He's one of the best at developing a team but below-average on gameday...I mean, you're playing the Saints at home and the best you can come up with is a silly inside slant to Peppers? A) this game was too close to call a cutesy, "this guy has played a lot of football so let's have some fun" play and B) Peppers has like 8" on the DB, why throw him a bullet on a slant rather than a fade into the corner? Much easier to catch a softly thrown fade than a fastball from Rodgers.